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2015 CR-V AWD fail

14K views 51 replies 13 participants last post by  Blogson 
#1 ·
As an admitted Honda fan and someone who really wanted to hold off on buying a crossover till the '15 CR-V, I'm torn on this. On one hand, it helps me to justify my purchase (surely the Rav did not do as poorly) but on the other hand, I don't like to see Honda on the backward slide (pun intended) with it's product.


Looks Like The 2015 Honda CR-V's AWD System Doesn't Work At All


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jkiv-bWbLIo


I could not find any video of any other CUV doing the test. Obviously they show the Escape (Kuga) in the video, but I'd like to see how the Rav performs. I did find some other videos of similar tests that included the Rav. These were obviously put on by Subaru and they do not indicate whether they utilized the lock on the differential when doing the test.


The closest I could find to confirmation of the use of a locking diff was when they compared a last-gen Lexus to an SH-AWD MDX (last gen) during a test put on by Acura.


Wondering what the collective community thinks about this, especially being that there's a large owner base here that lives in the snow (myself included)!
 
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#2 ·
Seems pretty obvious to me! It was a front wheel drive CRV! :surprise
 
#3 ·
I could bet the 4.3 and 4.4 RAV would perform similarly.

I did try a few years ago to stop on an icy/slushy steep hill. When I started the first 3 times, it would not move and then on the 4th time it just pulled nicely. It was a combination of LOCK and UnLOCK. But nothing seemed to work for the first 3 times.

However in my case, I was using All-season tires and all 4 tires were on the slippery surface.

So it needs some kind of minimal traction at the front wheels, I would think.
 
#4 ·
I could bet the 4.3 and 4.4 RAV would perform similarly.


I would have thought that if the Rav4 performed the same way that they (the evaluating company) would have said so. I mean, why call out Honda specifically if they're not the only ones that it happens to?


I would venture a guess that the Toyota probably performed much like the Kuga -- even without the locking of the differential. I would also speculate that having the ability to lock the differential and split power 50/50 between front and rear would CERTAINLY get the Rav moving just fine (as 50% of the Rav's power is certainly enough to get it moving forward).


Nonetheless, I'd still like to see the others in the category perform the same test as well.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the link. Very informative. That shows that 4.3 struggles without the center diff lock enabled but goes nicely on the rollers with the center diff lock on. Makes you wonder if they press the RAV4 lock button in the Subaru roller videos. Probably not to make subaru shine. Does CRV have the center diff lock switch?
 
#10 · (Edited)
Another factor is that as part of electronic stability control cars today have accelerometers which reduce drive power when the car isn't moving. How that affects drive to the rear wheels on the CRV I don't know but when I purposely got my RAV4 stuck in foot+ deep snow I could hold the accelerator to the floor while I watched the left side wheels lazily rotating and the tach barely above idle.
No roller test can simulate movement detectible by the accelerometer and thus can't simulate real world situations.
 
#11 ·
Another factor is that as part of electronic stability control cars today have accelerometers which reduce drive power when the car isn't moving.
True. This is why sometimes you have to disable traction control.


How that affects drive to the rear wheels on the CRV I don't know
I don't think this was the issue, as the front wheels were spinning fast.
 
#14 ·
In my experience, the 4WD lock is very helpful in RAV4. When I tried to pull my boat on wet grass without it, the front tires would spin for a second or so and then the rear diff clutch would suddenly engage shaking the whole car but not until the front tires dug a hole in grass.

Interestingly, Subaru's AT AWD worked the same. There is no lock button in subaru, but the little secret is when you start in 1st gear (and not D), the center diff clutch is energized at maximum duty giving you the maximum torque at the rear wheels. I bet this is what's they do in the Subaru videos.
 
#25 ·
"Integrated Dynamic Drive System
The new RAV4 is available with either front-wheel drive or the Integrated Dynamic Drive System, an upgraded version of Toyota’s advanced all-wheel drive technology featuring a new Sport mode.

The Integrated Dynamic Drive System is a sophisticated, high-speed interactive management system which coordinates control of the RAV4’s Dynamic Torque Control AWD, Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) and Electric Power Steering (EPS) systems to enhance the compact SUV’s performance, handling and safety.

Using information from various sensors (speed, steering angle and yaw rate), the Dynamic Torque Control AWD system continuously controls the torque transfer between the front and rear wheels via an electromagnetically controlled coupling positioned in front of the rear differential.

Front to rear torque distribution can vary from 100:0 to 50:50, with front-wheel drive (100:0) automatically engaged under normal driving conditions to improve fuel consumption.

In normal mode -when neither Sport mode nor Lock mode are activated- torque transfer to the rear wheels now takes place not only when the front wheels are beginning to spin on slippery surfaces (as in the third generation RAV4) but also when the system detects understeer during cornering on road. As a result, the overall agility and driving performance of the vehicle is enhanced during both on- and off-road driving.

When the new Sport mode is selected, torque transfer to the rear wheels begins even before understeer develops. From the moment the steering wheel is turned, the Dynamic Torque Control AWD System operates a newly developed pre-torque control, automatically introducing a 90:10 front/rear torque distribution to help cornering force by transferring traction torque to rear.

If actual understeer develops, torque transfer to the rear wheels is automatically increased by up to 50% through a new yaw rate feedback control, to provide front tyres with improved lateral grip.

As well as activating the ‘Dynamic’ behaviour of the system’s front to rear torque transfer, the new Sport mode also decreases the RAV4’s power steering assistance by 20% and, depending on version, sharpens throttle response and offers higher revs for a more dynamic, sporting driving experience.

For off-road driving, the system incorporates an AWD Lock button. This allows drivers to lock torque distribution in a fixed, 50:50 ratio at speeds up to 40 km/h. Above this speed, the system automatically reverts to Normal mode.

From Integrated Active Drive System to Integrated Dynamic Drive System
The third generation RAV4 used Integrated Active Drive System, in which torque control was managed by an Active Torque Control 4WD system. The new RAV4 now uses a Dynamic Torque Control AWD System.

Compared to the third generation car, the new RAV4 keeps the following functions:
- Starting Control: traction performance when starting on snowy or muddy roads is ensured by increasing the rear torque distribution up to 50%. At speed above 25 km/h, the driving control switches to normal driving control.
- Normal driving control: on highways or urban roads, the rear torque distribution is reduced to 0% to enhance fuel efficiency. When detecting slippery roads in which wheel skidding occurs, torque control is immediately activated to ensure driving stability.
- VSC co-operative control: When the front wheels skid and the vehicle runs outside the driver’s intended path, EPS assists for the turning direction (by creating a torque in the steering wheel in order to show to the driver the right manoeuvre to do ), and torque is distributed to the rear wheels.
- Braking control: AWD is cancelled to enhance the effects of ABS a and the VSC System.
- Lock mode control: when the driver pushes the LOCK mode switch. 50% of torque is transmitted to each axle to enhance escape performance in situations such as when the vehicle is stuck.

The new function added on top of these 5 control modes is:
- Cornering control: Yaw rate feedback control is used to adapt rear wheel torque to assist cornering performance by generating optimal drive force distribution and balancing the load between front/rear wheels. With Sport mode, from the first steering input, 10% of the torque is directed to the rear wheels at the start of the corner which can increase to a maximum of 50% during cornering to ensure driving stability and a fun to drive experience.

Thanks to cornering control, Sport mode helps the driver to maintain his intended trajectory and, at the end, have more enjoyable driving experience."
 
#28 ·
"
From Integrated Active Drive System to Integrated Dynamic Drive System
The third generation RAV4 used Integrated Active Drive System, in which torque control was managed by an Active Torque Control 4WD system. The new RAV4 now uses a Dynamic Torque Control AWD System.

Compared to the third generation car, the new RAV4 keeps the following functions:
- Starting Control: traction performance when starting on snowy or muddy roads is ensured by increasing the rear torque distribution up to 50%. At speed above 25 km/h, the driving control switches to normal driving control.
- Normal driving control: on highways or urban roads, the rear torque distribution is reduced to 0% to enhance fuel efficiency. When detecting slippery roads in which wheel skidding occurs, torque control is immediately activated to ensure driving stability.
- VSC co-operative control: When the front wheels skid and the vehicle runs outside the driver’s intended path, EPS assists for the turning direction (by creating a torque in the steering wheel in order to show to the driver the right manoeuvre to do ), and torque is distributed to the rear wheels.
- Braking control: AWD is cancelled to enhance the effects of ABS a and the VSC System.
- Lock mode control: when the driver pushes the LOCK mode switch. 50% of torque is transmitted to each axle to enhance escape performance in situations such as when the vehicle is stuck.

The new function added on top of these 5 control modes is:
- Cornering control: Yaw rate feedback control is used to adapt rear wheel torque to assist cornering performance by generating optimal drive force distribution and balancing the load between front/rear wheels. With Sport mode, from the first steering input, 10% of the torque is directed to the rear wheels at the start of the corner which can increase to a maximum of 50% during cornering to ensure driving stability and a fun to drive experience.

Thanks to cornering control, Sport mode helps the driver to maintain his intended trajectory and, at the end, have more enjoyable driving experience."
Thanks for the explanation. Looks like the system is the same, except for added Sport functionality in turns in 4.4. I would use it sparingly to be honest. Before RAV4, I had Subaru that had that 90/10 split (with up to 50/50 on demand of course). In some slippery conditions it would fishtail like RWD due to that power going to rear wheels on turns. Once I fishtailed, spinned 180 degrees and ended up on the side of a highway. It was scary to say the least. I personally prefer understreer to oversteer.
 
#29 ·
No
You have to push the button and engage the 4wd and it will stay in 4wd as long as you stay below 25mph. Or can kick it in by accelerating and if slippage is determined then the 4wd kicks in but only if slippage is determined.
I have several years of driving the CRV in the winter. The system kicks in hydraullically if slippage occurs even above 25 mph. There were a couple of times I drove the CRV in a heavy rain with less than great tires and the 4wd kicked in even if for a second or two.
Subaru system is superior to the Rav and CRV. No comparison. I had a 1992 Legacy for 18 years.
Rav system is better than CRV in that you can engage and stay in 4wd up to 25mph.
 
#33 ·
LOL, you guys just can't help yourselves, can you? Nevermind that virtually every review has remarked to some extent about the overall refinement and improvement of the 4.4 over the 4.3. Isn't there a more appropriate forum for you haters to commiserate with each other about the importance of the now lost Headlamp ON indicator?
 
#37 ·
Hey, what's all this 4.3, 4.4 stuff? Aren't we on a Honda forum? :confused:
 
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#35 ·
I have the "Teknikens värld" car magazine at home. The problem almost all tested cars had in this test was with the rollers placed at the same side of the vehicle. The BMW and Mercedes just climbed on but all others, Subaru Forester included, failed. Locking the central diff on the RAV does not help in this case. Why didn't the Germans have any problem with that? Well, they use the traction controll system much more intense than the others. And they are very good at slippery conditions from stand still and moving on for shorter distances. The problem for them is that the systems is much more sensitive to get overheated if you drive in wet deep snow or slippery mud on long distances. In the RAV4 we can push the lockbutton, disengage the traction and stability system and go on with at least two wheels driving for ever and all the others with only one. That mmakes a huge difference. 50%.
 
#36 ·
I have owned a 4:3 2012, a 4:4 2013 and now 2014. The four wheel system is the same in both generation but reacts much faster in the 4:4 and have more datapower. The system in the BMW works the same way, a so called "Active system". And yes, the RAV always start in four wheel drive. And yes, the 4:4 always put som tourqe backwards in curves. Up to 50%. In sport mode always at least 15% in all conditions up to 50%. It handles fantastic when pushing hard through tight corners on full throttle. You can really feel how the car use all wheels to take you out of the situation. I love this car!
 
#43 ·
Remember that time we used to talk about the CR-V AWD test?
Yeah, I do vaguely remember something like that but somehow I'm not getting any traction on it. :confused:
 
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#51 ·
Cummins? Oh yeah, that's the one I could get 2 more mpg with 2 less cylinders for $50,000.
We stray afar!
 
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