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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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I added some clarifications, some images, and the links from JuneBug to the original post.

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 02:48 AM
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Why does 2wd get auto LSD but not 4wd?

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 02:59 AM
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http://rav4world.com/pdf/2006/brakecon.pdf
If page 105 were true, what about those YouTube videos of Subaru SUV vs competing SUV going uphill on rollers with only 1 wheel with traction?
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 03:05 AM
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Also on page 115, it almost sounds like of you can pitch the 4.3 hard enough sideways on slippery surface, the power steering actually helps you counter steer into a glorious drift?
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ThurzNite View Post
Why does 2wd get auto LSD but not 4wd?

Dr J
I believe the Auto LSD (Limited Slip Differential) isn't a real LSD, but instead is a simulated LSD that applies the brakes to the wheels. However, not having a 2WD RAV4, I admit that I haven't really studied it in detail.

I can only imagine it was the best they could do with a 2WD vehicle, and the 4WD system provides more/advanced options for better overall handling.

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
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http://rav4world.com/pdf/2006/brakecon.pdf
If page 105 were true, what about those YouTube videos of Subaru SUV vs competing SUV going uphill on rollers with only 1 wheel with traction?
Dr J
Firstly, lets not forget that those videos are staged by Subaru, and those are almost never real-world conditions. Seriously, when have you had 3 wheels on frictionless ice and 1 wheel on dry pavement, going uphill?

Subaru also conveniently doesn't describe the settings in each vehicle. For example, maybe they did, or did not. turn TRAC off on the RAV4, or didn't push the Lock button to ensure maximum power available went to the rear wheels, if it was a rear wheel that had traction. You can bet Subaru did everything they could to make the Subaru look good, and all competitors look bad.

Also, I saw at least one video by an independent outfit (AMCI Testing), filmed on a hockey rink, where they showed a Subaru Outback and a Toyota Venza (also with Active Torque Control), and both vehicles performed nearly identically in every test. Sometimes the Venza was a tiny bit better, sometimes the Subaru was a tiny bit better. Here it is, much more real-world, and very interesting stuff:


To quote: "In automotive testing, results are only valid predictors of real-world performance when the tests are conducted in real-world conditions."

That's not to say that Subaru's symmetric all-wheel drive system isn't great: it is. Though some believe the fuel economy hit it takes compared to other systems isn't worth it when it comes to real-world driving.

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Last edited by JuneBug; 08-18-2015 at 10:40 AM.
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 05:22 AM Thread Starter
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BTW, I was going to give you a "Thanks" but it'll be deleted if you edit the post so I'll let things "settle out" first.
FYI, that does not appear to be exactly true. I've edited the post a few times, including to fix a typo this morning, and the Thanks from DennisU yesterday remain.

It looks to be the case that they get deleted to the editor right after editing, but if you visit the page in a new browser window the Thanks come back.

Good to know.

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurzNite View Post
Why does 2WD get auto LSD but not 4WD?
Dr J
DVS is correct on post #15. The front differential has no mechanism for locking itself and thus sending equal speed to each wheel. From the ABS sensors it does know each wheel's speed. Auto LSD brakes the wheel that's spinning faster.

Traction control on 4WD does the same thing on the rear wheels also. So it has Auto-LSD on both ends. During my getting-stuck tests I've heard the heavy almost disconcerting thumping noises the ABS makes on whatever wheels are spinning. Then if the Skid Control ECU doesn't see the vehicle moving it essentially gives up and takes the throttle away from the driver. Turning TRAC off allows the driver to spin the wheels w/o traction until he either gets unstuck or breaks something.

What I don't know is does Auto-LSD also have the ability to reduce throttle when it sees no movement? And does turning it off allow spinning the tire with the least traction? I do know that when I got my FWD Accord "stuck" with both front tires on ice, both were slowly spinning with my foot to the floor. So it must have some sort of auto-LSD but I never heard any thumping.

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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 08:20 AM
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FYI, that does not appear to be exactly true. I've edited the post a few times, including to fix a typo this morning, and the Thanks from DennisU yesterday remain.
I base the thanks going away on it happening to one of mine a while ago. My thinking was someone could thank you and then you change the post to say something opposite. If the thanks stayed it would look they were approved when they didn't. So unless a judgment was made every time, any edit would have to delete any thanks.
Anyway I'll give it a try, see what happens to our counters, and repeat if necessary.
For the record my Thanks=105 as of today
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurzNite View Post
http://rav4world.com/pdf/2006/brakecon.pdf
If page 105 were true, what about those YouTube videos of Subaru SUV vs competing SUV going uphill on rollers with only 1 wheel with traction?
Dr J
I don't even bother watching staged promotional videos, especially unrealistic situation ones.
They're like when someone with a Harley claims he has some high HP number. I say, "Okay let's see it on MY dyno." I've seen it be true once in 15 years. (I tested that bike for the editor of American Iron Magazine. He was doing an article but didn't believe the builder's dyno numbers. He confirmed it on my and a third dyno. All three agreed within measurement error.)

Fred
2006 RAV4 V6 4WD Red Limited - wife's
2006 Accord V6 Hybrid - Dr. Dyno's - quick as the RAV but +8 mpg
2003 Odyssey V6 - handy people & cargo mover
1999 F-250 4X4 Diesel - snow plow, Bully Dog chip
2001 F-250 4X4 Diesel - truck camper, TS chip, 20' bike/trike dyno trailer
2004 Suzuki DRZ-400S Dual Sport
1968 Volvo 1800S

It's the pedal (or the handgrip) on the right!!


"If you really believe you get what you pay for there's no such thing as a good deal."
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