Number of Teeth on Crankshaft position gear? - Toyota RAV4 Forums
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#1 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 10:34 PM
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Number of Teeth on Crankshaft position gear?

Anybody know how many teeth on the The Rav4.1 crankshaft position sensor gear? I'm thinking it's xx number of teeth with one or two gaps, (for example 32 teeth with one gap), but don't want to take apart half the engine to get to it.

Any help appreciated!
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#2 (permalink) Old 12-04-2009, 10:43 PM
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the shop manual says the crank sensor trigger has 34 teeth. So it should be a 36 -2 (two teeth missing/gap off a 36 tooth wheel).

what are you thinking of doing?
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#3 (permalink) Old 12-04-2009, 11:42 PM
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Thanks! A fairly common configuration is 36 teeth with one missing (so really, 35 actual teeth plus a space for the 36th). I'm toying with the idea of installing a turbo in my '96 Rav using MegaSquirt. Knowing how the engine triggers the ignition cycle is key to setting up MS.

I turboed an '87 Mr2 back in 2004 using MS to provide engine management and it's still running today. I eventually sold the car because it was too dang low to the ground for my old knees. I love the Rav, but miss the kick you get from a turbo.

I figure I have three choices: sell the Rav, go with a turbo MegaSquirt setup or go all out with a 3s-gte swap. Haven't quite made up my mind yet. I certainly have the skills but I'm not certain I still have the energy for that kinda project.

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#4 (permalink) Old 12-05-2009, 12:19 AM
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I think the reason that they have a two tooth gap is that during the larger gap the cam sensor is trigger to indicate #1 TDCC (top dead center of compression stroke). This is the basis for our sequential fuel injection.

I didn't think that the regular MSII could run of a 36-2 trigger wheel. Is the Sequencer now available? They say this could run a 36-2 trigger

http://www.megamanual.com/seq/index.htm
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#5 (permalink) Old 12-05-2009, 12:29 AM
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Oh wait...

All the info I have is for a 98+ with waste spark, it might be different with a dizzy. Sorry I didn't pick up on your year till I saw the ignition wiring diagram. I would think it should be the same but I can not confirm this.
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#6 (permalink) Old 12-05-2009, 09:03 AM
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MegaSquirt is a major learning experience. Its a lot like taking a college-level engineering course with a focus on engine management. Im still in the early stages of learning on this particular car. However, Im pretty certain I can make it work.

My understanding, the 96 3s-fe in the Rav puts out a Crankshaft signal followed by cam signal from the distributor.

Quote:
Crankshaft position sensor (NE signal): Determines crankshaft position for spark timing.

Camshaft position sensor (also called VVT sensor) (G signal): Determines when cylinder #1 is at top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke for spark timing.

Ignition: The primary coil current is controlled by the ECM through the Ignition Timing (IGT) signal. The IGT signal is a voltage signal that turns ON/ OFF the main transistor in the igniter to start/stop primary coil current, which triggers a spark.
The MS1 version can work with this setup, and most likely with the wasted spark setup in later years. See: "Cam or Crank second Trigger" or "Generic Wheel with Wasted Spark Settings" on the MS1-Extra Basic Configuration manual page:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/...ion_Manual.htm


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#7 (permalink) Old 12-05-2009, 02:39 PM
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Is that G,NE signal waveform for your rav?

That waveform is is basically the same as the one in my shop book but the cam signal voltage rise starts exactly when the crank wave is at 0v of the missing teeth section (oscilloscope snap shot). The ecm's reference point of TDCC of #1 would be different.

I wonder what relation the signal waveforms have to engine placement in degrees (Deg) to TTDC #1.

What part of the G waveform would signal TDCC of #1? voltage rise +, max +, max -, voltage rise -, or the 0 voltage between max+ and max -

Where would the crank tooth gap be located in relation to TDCC of #1?

Unfortunately this is another area that the shop manual doesn't cover (I guess it shouldn't have to as this is way beyond what a tech would need to know for diagnostics). It would be very use full to know if you where going to run sequential injection and not batch fire
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#8 (permalink) Old 12-05-2009, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesl
MegaSquirt is a major learning experience.
I've done 3 MS projects.
One NA, one supercharged draw-through, and one turbo MPI. All 4 cylinder toyotas (4Runner/Truck).

MS is relatively easy if you want it to just control fuel, but as I'm sure you're after timing control, you'll need it on a turbo with a 9:1 compression ratio motor anyway.

You might see if anyone else has done it with this particular motor (isn't it shared with the Camry) - that's the best place to start...

The *other* piece of advice I can give you is that I'm done integrating toyota ignitions. The turbo 4runner that I have uses a plug-and-play harness that I built, no slicing of the factory wiring.. However finding similar projects, troubleshooting, and doing setup is very hard if you're the only one doing it. The only reason I see to do it is if your in CA and need to fool the smog guys or if you need to return your vehicle to stock. I'd strongly encourage you to weld on a crank-trigger ring and do a simple, reliable, EDIS-4 system instead...
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#9 (permalink) Old 12-05-2009, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Is that G,NE signal waveform for your rav?
No, that's from a chapter on ignition I downloaded from the TIS (Toyota Technical Information System).

calgaryrav4, I don't have any answers to your questions. Too early in my research so far.

cb1000rider, when I did my Mr2 project, I was the first person to develop a system using MS-Extra on the 4age engine family. It was tough sleding and most of the time I was flying blind. I had help from people all over the world, which made it a fun trip. I ended up with a system that was virtually plug-n-play. DIYAutoTune still hosts the old article I wrote after completing the install: http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...squirt_122.htm

We'll see how it goes. EDIS is a definite alternative, although I still like the idea of using the stock systems.
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#10 (permalink) Old 12-06-2009, 12:41 PM
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Ahh, you're that JAMES!
I wrote the article for the 22re / 22rte that DIY hosts. (different user name)
Glad to hear I'm in good company.

I've *thought* about putting a turbo on this thing - and other posts show the hardware to do it, but the RAV4 was bought as a "don't mess with it" car.. My turbo 4runner is retired under cover in the garage, mainly due to 17 mpg with a w turbo!

The other issue for me is that this thing is after 1995, so it's OBD-II. We have scans, although I *think* if they can't find the connector they have to run it on a sniffer instead.

You're very capable - so I look forward to what you come up with. Let me know if you run into an OEM manual on PDF also... (sorta necessary for MS wiring).

I'd still do EDIS.. :-)
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