5th Gear Popping out Self-Repair - Toyota RAV4 Forums
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#1 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 04:43 PM
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5th Gear Popping out Self-Repair

[This thread is referenced in our Mods/Maint section 8)]

I probably should wait until the job is actually completed, but I intend to replace the parts required to eliminate the 5th gear popping out problem on my '97 RAV4.

Mine started popping out a few months ago, but recently the problem has gotten worse. It now pops out almost as soon as I put it in gear.

I visited with a mechanic who replaced the parts without removing the engine and transaxle from the vehicle. He did it by going in through the left (driver's side) fender well. He loosened the left engine mount to improve access, but indicated that once the cover is removed from the end of the transmission, all of the parts needing replacement are readily accessible, and slide off the shaft following the removal of a retainer.

The parts are on order from my local Toyota dealer, who matched the available on-lilne price (with 7% sales tax -- just under $300).

If successful, I will document the replacement on this site, with photos and insights.

If you have any insights, please relate them to me.

Stay tuned, and wish me luck.
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#2 (permalink) Old 02-09-2007, 07:18 PM
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Started the project today

I started the project today.

After washing the Minnesota snow and ice off the RAV, I drove it into my shop, raised the front end, and supported it on jack stands. I don't know if you have to drain the transaxle, but I planned to replace the gear oil, so I drained it. After removing the left front wheel, the splash guard was next.



This was the view I got after removing the splash guard. The end cover on the tranny is exposed (the black cover with the number 9 on it).



Ten bolts and a little rubber hammer encouragement later the cover came off to expose -- all of the parts that need to be replaced. Some oil dropped out of the cover, so be ready.



The retainer on the end of the shaft was pryed off with a small screwdriver. It will fly when released, so be ready to catch it. A 12mm wrench was used to remove the shifter fork and collar.



The hub is pressed onto the shaft, so I had to fabricate a puller.



Using the puller, the hub came off without a problem.



Transferring the synchronizer from the old hub to the new hub was a bit tricky. I advise you to look closely at how the assembly fits in there. A couple of retainers are a little tricky to get back into place, but note that the retainers have protrusions that have to slip into holes in the hub. There may be a way to use thin wire or wire ties to hold everything together. It took me about 30 minutes of fiddling around to get the synchronizer installed in the new hub.



With the hub off, the old 5th gear will slip right off the shaft. The split needle bearing then falls on the floor.



Oil the new split needle bearing, put the two part bearing on the shaft, and slip the new 5th gear over the bearing.



As of now I have invested about two hours in the processs. My wife says it is suppertime, so I will continue with this procedure later.

Even if you don't want to do it yourself, you can show this thread to a transmission mechanic and prove that the repair can be done with the transmission in place. I didn't even have to loosen the engine mounts to gain the required clearance.
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#3 (permalink) Old 02-09-2007, 08:16 PM
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I think this is going to make a lot of ppl very, very happy!!!!....
Nice goin'!!!! 8)

-Jim

Red Gloves Rule _ 99
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#4 (permalink) Old 02-10-2007, 07:00 AM
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Retainer, Bearing, Rear (MTM)

TSB TC001-01 indicates that the bearing retainer (part number 33151-28020) needs to be replaced. The advising mechanic indicated that he did not replace this retainer, and did not feel it was necessary since it was a stationary part of the transmission.

Not replacing it will save you $, plus you will not have to remove the lock nut and gear that mates with the 5th gear. It remains to be seen how this affects my repair.
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#5 (permalink) Old 02-10-2007, 10:40 PM
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Finished Install

This morning I finished installing the new parts on my tranny.

This photo shows the bearing retainer which the TSB indicates should be replaced (the plate bolted to the transmission case). I can't see what good replacing it would do, but may be proven wrong down the road. Mine is going back together without replacing it.



A puller was required to remove the hub, so a pusher will be needed to put it back on. I started it on the spline. Make sure that the four synchronizer tangs line up with the holes in the 5th gear (don't ask me how I know).



The inside of the shaft is threaded (see photo above). The thread is 12mm diameter with a pitch of 1.5mm. I bought a 12mm x 70mm bolt with the proper pitch and used a 1 1/4", 1/2" drive socket as a pusher to press the hub onto the shaft. The larger nut you see in the photo is just a spacer.



The collar and shifter fork were installed over the hub and the shifter fork bolt reinstalled. The snap ring was started into its groove and then pushed into place with a slip-joint pliars. All the working parts have been replaced.



I shifted the transmission through the gears to make sure everything still worked.

The silicone gasket material was cleaned from the transmission and from the cover with a Dremel tool and wire brush. New gasket material was applied to the cover, and it is ready to go on.



The cover is installed and the tranny is ready to be filled with new gear lube. I will wait until tomorrow to fill it with oil to give the gasket material a chance to cure.



Counting the time I spent making the hub puller and finding a store which had the proper bolt (12mm x 70mm w/1.5mm pitch) to press it back on, I have about 6 hours invested in the project. If I had started out with the puller and the bolt, I could have done it in four hours.

Toyota claims it takes 11.6 hours for a pro to do it. What a bunch of crap!!

Tomorrow I will fill it with oil and tell you how it performs.
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#6 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 07:41 AM
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Pre-Oil, RTV Gasket Maker, Anti-Sieze.

Pre-oil all the parts as they are installed.

Prior to installing the end cover, wipe the mating surfaces using lacquer thinner or other solvent to assure that the RTV gasket maker will bond to the tranny case and cover.

Use anti-seize on the cover bolts.

If you are in the US or Canada, and decide you want to do your own 5th gear repair, pm me and I will send you the hub puller and the hub installer for the cost of shipping (PayPal), plus a deposit to assure that you will return them.
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#7 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 11:16 AM
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Finished!

This morning I filled the tranny with GL-5, installed the splash shield, dropped it off the jackstands, and took it for a test drive.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, let me tell you that 5th gear now works great! Formerly when I would let up on the gas in 5th the shift lever would move forward a good 3/4". Now it does not move at all. A longer test drive will be the acid test, but I am 99% certain that the problem is solved.

Inspecting the old parts, and comparing them with the new, leads me to believe that the problem is in the engagment of the sleeve with the 5th gear. The cogs are quite worn on both the sleeve and the 5th gear, and the cogs on the 5th gear are slighly tapered toward the sleeve. That means the gear is trying to push the sleeve away while engaged. I believe that one could get by without replacing the hub, saving yourself considerable pain in transferring the hub "guts" from the old one to the new one. You would still have to pull the hub in order to get the old 5th gear off, and press it back on, but that is no big deal.

Another issue that I found is that only 4 quarts of oil came out of the transmission, and it took 5 quarts to refill it. I had intended to replace the transaxle oil shortly after buying the RAV last summer, but kept putting it off. The low transmission oil level may have contributed to premature wear on the 5th gear and sleeve. It did not slip out of 5th when I bought it.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
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#8 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 04:44 PM
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Hi Hardrocker, well done on an excellent how to for sorting out this apparently common problem on the Rav4 If you had done it a week or so earlier, I might have been tempted to tackle mine as well It's booked in tomorrow morning and as they are only charging me £100 labour, it's probably money well spent and will save me making pullers etc' and they'll get the parts at trade prices too.
I totally agree, how Toyota can justify 11 hours labour for this is a total rip off

I bet you are really pleased to have the satifaction of doing it yourself and early signs certainly look good.

Cheers Jim
 
#9 (permalink) Old 02-12-2007, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijfife
Hi Hardrocker, well done on an excellent how to for sorting out this apparently common problem on the Rav4 If you had done it a week or so earlier, I might have been tempted to tackle mine as well It's booked in tomorrow morning and as they are only charging me £100 labour, it's probably money well spent and will save me making pullers etc' and they'll get the parts at trade prices too.
I totally agree, how Toyota can justify 11 hours labour for this is a total rip off

I bet you are really pleased to have the satifaction of doing it yourself and early signs certainly look good.

Cheers Jim
Thanks Jim. I hope that the post helps many owners, even if it only demonstrates to their mechanics or dealers that the repair can be made with the transaxle in the vechicle.

Prior to proceeding with the repair, I offered the local Toyota dealer $150 to do the repair, and they would not bite. I am not sure about the exchange rate, but that should be close to your £100.

I took the RAV for a longer drive yesterday, and the tranny works great.
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#10 (permalink) Old 02-12-2007, 04:47 PM
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Hi Hardrocker, unfortunately, my 5th gear replacement didnt go so well today The mechanics replaced the 5th gear inner and outer along with the split needle roller bearing. These all showed signs of wear and are the parts they usually replace. On the test run it was exactly the same problem!
They put it back on the ramp and fitted a stronger detent spring as they felt that the original was a bit on the week side. Sadly still no difference Closing time was looming so the've given up for the moment and I drove home with my 4 speed box!
It's going back in next Monday so that they can have another look to try and source the problem. They didn't change the syncro hub as it hadn't been crunching into gear and on inspection, they looked fine.
The firm I'm using were recommended by a friend who works in a car dealership and they have used them for many many years, so I'm confident that i'm not dealing with cowboys.
If nothing obvious shows up next Monday, it could be a gearbox out job to fix, I'm really hoping this isn't the case!

Cheers Jim
 
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