ECM/Transmission problem for 2001-2003 RAV4 - Toyota RAV4 Forums
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#1 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:52 PM
bobzw
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ECM/Transmission problem for 2001-2003 RAV4

Purchased a new 2002 Toyota RAV4 at Stevinson Toyota, Denver, CO in 2002. Recently, we found that the transmission was shifting oddly. Found out that Toyota put out a Technical Service Bulletin in early 2006 after defects started surfacing stating to replace the car's computer (ECU). The company did not inform owners about this defect which is now surfacing and did not recall due to cost of replacing the ECU and transmission it destroys. The defective ECU burns up the clutch and other parts in the transmission.

Toyota will not do the honorable thing and recall the vehicles or even pay for any portion of the repair if it is even a tiny bit outside the warranty period (as ours is). Bottom line - they will not stand behind their product or mistake if it it costs them too much (unless there are overwhelming public complaints/outcry as with their head gasket recall).

Currently, the vehicle is at Liberty Toyota in Colorado Springs. Service Dept number is 719.278.4851. They will not even discount the repair which we need to have done. Also tried getting in touch with Stevenson Toyota Service Manager, Jeff Totsky (866.424.0557),but still have not gotten a call back.

Technical Service Bulletin is: TC002-06, Revised March 3, 2006. Do a search for the words TC002-06 RAV4 , and you will find out about it and many complaints blogged.

Excerpt:
"Some 2001 – 2003 model year RAV4 vehicles equipped with an automatic transaxle
may exhibit a harsh shift condition and/or M.I.L. “ON” with DTC P0750, P0753, P0755,
P0758, and/or P1760 stored. Improvements have been made to the Engine Control
Module (ECM) (SAE term: Powertrain Control Module/PCM) manufacturing process to
reduce the possibility of this condition occurring. Use the following procedure to repair the vehicle."

It goes on to say replace the ECM/ECU and possibly the transmission. Total cost is currently around $4800.00. I am getting the ECU/ECM replaced at this time and then will take it to AAMCO for the tranny rebuild. The ECU/ECM part itself costs just over 1,000, then there is labor added to that.

I'm a veteran (retired Air Force), and I don't like being treated like I'm trying to steal something from them (this is how they make you feel) when it is actually the honorable thing that they should take care of the problem. Ironic that a company based in a country that emphasizes honor to such a high degree holds so little regard for doing the honorable thing.

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Note: TSB http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17043
 
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#2 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 09:03 AM
bobzw
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BBB complaint results for ECU/Transmission problem RE: 2001-2003 RAV4s

Complaint
Complaint Classification: Gen. Service Issues

Complaint Description - Posted 4/18/2008


Purchased a new 2002 Toyota RAV4. Found that the transmission is shifting oddly. Found Toyota put out a Technical Service Bulletin (http://rav4world.com/tsb/2001/TC002-06.pdf) in early 2006 due to high problem rate. The company did not inform owners 2 years ago about this defect which is now surfacing and did not recall due to cost. The defective ECM burns up the clutch and other parts in the transmission. Toyota will not do the ethical and honorable thing and recall the vehicles or even pay for any portion the repair if it is even a tiny bit outside the warranty period (as ours is). Bottom line - they will not stand behind their product or mistake if it costs them too much (unless there is a sufficient public outcry as with the bad head gaskets in another model's recall). Currently, the vehicle is at Liberty Toyota in Colorado Springs. Service Dept number is 719.278.4851. They said that Corporate Toyota decided they will not even discount any part of the repair which we need to have done. Also tried getting a call back from Stevenson Toyota (where we bought it) Service Manager, Jeff Totsky (866.424.0557),but have not gotten no reply. Internet chatter about this can be found in many places like: http://www.topix.com/forum/autos/toy...S8TKGJN6IA3/p2 Company should have its BBB membership revoked since it is not acting in accordance with ethical business practices.

Complaint Summary


Knew about high failure rate ECM 2 years ago. Did not recall. Will not assist with resulting repairs occurring now, which are now out of warranty.
Resolution Sought


Pay for all or at least some of the repair. ECU part is over 1,000 plus labor (400.00?). Transmission rebuild is 2,800 at AAMCO. They chose not to recall a known high failure part two years ago when car was in warranty. This problem is widespread. See forums at RAV4world.com and motortrend.com to name a few, or do an Internet search.

Additional Information
Date Problem First Occurred:
4/15/2008
Product or Service: 2002 Toyota RAV4 with a defective ECM and resultant transmission
Model Name or Number: Toyota RAV4
Date Purchased: 4/17/2008
Order Number:
Amount Paid: $4200.00


Company's Response
Company's Initial Response - Posted 05/02/2008
Assistance is denied due to the vehicle mileage,and lack of service maintenance. Toyota Dealership replaced the ECU and did not charge the customer for labor and also sold the parts at cost to the customer.
Assistance is denied due to the vehicle mileage,and lack of service maintenance.



Consumer's Rebuttal
Consumer's Rebuttal - Posted 05/13/2008
This does not satisfy the requirement that businesses behave ethically in order to be BBB members. The high failure part was known about years ago and no notification was sent to owners to watch for the symptoms so their transmission would not get fried. This is a safety issue since the erratic shifting could cause an accident. That seems like negligence to me. Gee, thanks for not marking up the price of the defective part and not charging for the one hour of labor. Not sufficient. Joining a class action suit that is forming at this time. No honor in what you are doing (or not doing).


Company's Final Response
Company's Final Response - Posted 05/20/2008
Toyota District Service Parts Manager declined assistance due to mileage (90K plus) and lack of service history (none registered at any Toyota dealership). On March 3rd, 2006 Toyota issued TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) TC002-06 to address the possibility of harsh shift condition and/or M.I.L. "on." Improvements were made to the Engine Control Module to reduce the possibility if this condition occurred. Toyota does not inform Customers when a TSB is created as they are designated to support technicians on how to diagnose/fix the specific issue. Toyota stands behind its products and as a result, the warranty was extended to 96 months or 80k miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle in-service date. The Customer did not have a concern with the component within the extended warranty time period. No assistance with repair.
 
#3 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 01:19 AM
x10kx
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ECM Warranty

I've done some searching and found that the ECM is under warranty up to 96 months or 80,000 miles. We just got ours replace not to long ago, now the car runs like new. Dealer didn't try to argue or anything. I have a TSB file stating the ECm warranty if you would like a copy i would be glad to email it to you. Just let me know
 
#4 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 10:49 AM
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X10kx,

Can I have a copy please: I pm'd you my email address. Thanks!

'02 Rav4 LTD AWD (Onyx black, f. flares, moonroof, alloys) SOLD (Aug '02-Aug '10)
'97 Accord EX-R V6 (heather mist metallic, roof, beige leather, alloys, pwr seat) SOLD (March '09-Dec '10)
Current: '04 Acura 3.5RL Premium (Nighthawk Black Metallic, black leather) (October '10-present)
Advice: Life's too short to spend $35K on a NEW Rav4. Buy used a Acura/Lexus, ENJOY life AND save money. Trust me, you won't regret it.
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#5 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 01:41 PM
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TSB link

Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Rav4
X10kx,

Can I have a copy please: I pm'd you my email address. Thanks!
http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17043
 
#6 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 04:20 PM
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Thanks Bobzw!

'02 Rav4 LTD AWD (Onyx black, f. flares, moonroof, alloys) SOLD (Aug '02-Aug '10)
'97 Accord EX-R V6 (heather mist metallic, roof, beige leather, alloys, pwr seat) SOLD (March '09-Dec '10)
Current: '04 Acura 3.5RL Premium (Nighthawk Black Metallic, black leather) (October '10-present)
Advice: Life's too short to spend $35K on a NEW Rav4. Buy used a Acura/Lexus, ENJOY life AND save money. Trust me, you won't regret it.
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#7 (permalink) Old 07-14-2008, 11:23 AM
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I am looking at a 2001 RAV4 for that's for sale - it has the transmission hesitation consistent with the ECM issue - they say its only been happening for a few days - price is very good - but how long does it take to damage the actual transmission? If it does some shifts ok, can I assume good? Any road tests I can do? I know it's hard to tell without full inspection but any thoughts from you folks much appreciated.

Cheers...
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#8 (permalink) Old 07-15-2008, 12:11 PM
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96 mounthes should cover 2002!

I see that 96 mounthes extended warranty should cover the 2002 rav4 or is it more than 80000 miles?
I have a rav4 2001 and I can see that the transmission shifts atrangely when the car is cold, is iit the same problem?
Can I claim service even in europe?
The car has 10600 km
 
#9 (permalink) Old 07-23-2008, 07:46 AM
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Two weeks ago- I brought our 02 Rav in for a Tranny Flush(complete) through Norm Wagner Toyota. Locally they are not known to be a consumer friendly dealership on the sales side- but never really dealt with them for Service- car was bought used elsewhere.

I had 65K on vehicle and am working to get Xfer case and rear diff fluids changed, and the Transmission as well. For the $180(or $50 higher than independent shops)- I figured I would let Toyota do this- just in case anything went awry.

4 or 5 days later- I noticed the 2-3 upshift was balking. I soon noticed that at some stops- I seemed to be taking off in 2nd gear, and then a shudder. There were no C/E lights thrown or anything. Well- yesterday it was back to Wagner Toyota(after I had done some more research on the issues). I mentioned there was nothing wrong with the vehicle before it went it(knowing that wouldn't matter to them), but also I mentioned the TSB on the ECM, and the extension by Toyota of warranty. The writer looks at me, and says he knows of ALL the issues with the Rav and the ECM and Tranny, and IF he could bill any of this to Toyota- it makes his life MUCH easier.

Yesterday afternoon- they called- car ready, and they changed out the ECM. Driven for 25 miles by one of their servants and found no mechanical issues. Completely FREE, and have a nice day.

Driven last night and this morning on my 50 mile commute- seems issue free SO FAR. I hope there was nothing done permanently to the tranny caused by the ECM. Total mile driven from Flush to ECM replacement was 250.

Chris
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#10 (permalink) Old 07-26-2008, 01:55 PM
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Does anyone know if there is a class action suit regarding the transmission/ECM problem? If so, where do I sign up?
 
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