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#1 (permalink) Old 03-09-2009, 01:30 AM
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Head Gasket questions

Hi Ya
Just a word of warning ....
I had a tiny pinhole crack in my radiator and was having to put about a liter of water in a day till I had time to fix it. Yesterday forgot to top it up and on the way into town I get an engine light come on, shortly after I get a funny sound so coast to see if it's wheel or engine related and it stalled. Pulled over to find oil all over the engine from the head gasket and a seriously hot engine. Problem is the temp reading never changed, as I pulled over I noticed the temp reading as normal where as the fact of the matter was there was no water and the engine was RED HOT !! Spent the next 8 hours pulling the engine to bits to get the head off (not for the faint hearted !!) last time I did this was 20 years ago on an old mini 850 and belive me that was a whole lot more simple !!!!!
Does anybody know the tourque setting for the head bolts ??
Am I supposed to use new head bolts ??
Thanks to all who might know these things
Chris

Stuck all the way out in paradise
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#2 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 12:03 AM
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Chris, I wish I had the answers to your questions because I am about to remove the head on my '03. Same scenario as yours - had a leaky radiator and got it hot. Then had pressure in the cooling system and now a blown head gasket.

How did your job work out? Was the repair successful and what did you torque the head bolts too? Was your head flat or did it need resurfacing?

Also, it looks like I have to remove the timing chain from down below, not right at the top like my Nissan cars. How did you get the timing chain off?

Mike
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#3 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blownb310
Chris, I wish I had the answers to your questions because I am about to remove the head on my '03. Same scenario as yours - had a leaky radiator and got it hot. Then had pressure in the cooling system and now a blown head gasket.

How did your job work out? Was the repair successful and what did you torque the head bolts too? Was your head flat or did it need resurfacing?

Also, it looks like I have to remove the timing chain from down below, not right at the top like my Nissan cars. How did you get the timing chain off?

Mike
The head is Aluminum - very good chance you will have warpage. Your limit is 0.0031 inch. What is your milage - timing chain adn oil pump chain are pretty good for quite a while, tolerance are as follows. Timing chain wear limit while wrapped with chain around cam sprocket measured at diameter 3.831 inch. Timing chain wear limit while wrapped with chain around crank shaft sprocket measured at diameter 2.031 inch. Chain stretch limit 8 links (16 pins) 4.827 inch. (if you have to do the timing do the oil chain too) Timing chain comes off once the auto tensioner is removed. Two bolts. Located on the passenger side intake side of the engine (near the top of the head). You have to loosen the wire harness from the engine for access. If you decide to take out your cams they are 22 ft-lbs for the big journal and 80in-lbs for the remainder. Head bolts are to be replaced and all torqued to 58 ft-lbs then add 90 degrees turn to each one. You will save yourself lots of time if you buy a repair manual (do yourself a favour and buy one). It can be done - just take your time. Good Luck
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#4 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 08:57 PM
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Drax,

Thanks very much for your detailed reply. Much appreciated indeed! Just to clarify, do I have to remove the front timing cover to remove the head then? It appears that the chain cannot be left in the block when removing the head. There is a cast boss that goes through the middle of it [just below the cam gears]. The chain is one piece right?

Regards,

Mike
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#5 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blownb310
Drax,

Thanks very much for your detailed reply. Much appreciated indeed! Just to clarify, do I have to remove the front timing cover to remove the head then? It appears that the chain cannot be left in the block when removing the head. There is a cast boss that goes through the middle of it [just below the cam gears]. The chain is one piece right?

Regards,

Mike
The chain is one part and must not be separated. Some engines you can loosen the chain and hang it by a wire then remove the head but....Technically the timing chain cover must come off and the chain removed as well. With the cover off and the tensioner removed the chain will come off with the sprocket removed from the exhaust cam. This gives you ample room to remove the head, clean and replace the gasket. The timing chain guides attach to the head and the engine block at the same time therefore the cover must be removed to disconnect the guides. If you could remove the guides without taking off the timing cover you could get away with leaving the cover in place. There just is not enough room and you risk dropping parts into the bottom of the engine in the attempt.

Since the cover should come off replace the chain, guides and sprockets while your there. Shouldn't be more than a couple hundred in parts. Theses engines are known for the valve seals leaking so replace those too ($40 in seals) If head needs to be disassembled for milling they should be replaced automatically. If your at or near 160000km/100000miles do the chain and valve seals in the name of good maintenance. CHain can be good for 200000miles with proper oil changes but while its apart take advantage of the opportunity. Especially if the engine was overheated anyway.
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#6 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 09:09 AM
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An absolutely fantastic reply. Thank you very much and you are a huge credit to this forum!

Much appreciated and Happy Holidays,

Mike
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#7 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 04:51 PM
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Sorry, this is not related to your question(torq specs) but just want to share
some info with other readers.

I have a 02 rav4 with around 57,000 kms. (Yes, 57,000 kms)
Replaced the head gasket from Toyota dealer & the cost was $1,600 tax in. cdn

Merry Christmas everyone.
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#8 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 07:44 PM
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My Rav4 has 106-k on it and the "simple" head gasket job has now turned into a nightmare. The center three rear head bolts were found to be loose when I went to untorque them. As I read on other forums, the alunminum block threads can pull out and then of course, a head gasket failure will result.


See the shiny spot above cylinder #3? That's where the coolant was leaking out from between the head and block. It gets worse....


The gasket also failed between cylinders #2 and #3.


Here are the aluminum threads that came out with the rear 3 bolts. This generally means you need a new engine, as the threaded holes are 100mm down in the block. You can't even see the damaged threads, let alone try to heli coil them. There is a special rethreading kit made for this, but it costs about $400.


Tip for those trying this at home: Leave the exhaust manifold on the head to save time and effort. The intake can be unbolted from the head and left in place on the vehicle with all hoses, cables, and electrical connectors left in place.


Just a picture of the cylinder head gasket surface. I haven't checked it for flatness yet with my straight edge.

I've been reading that the 2001-2004 Camrys have this same problem. They have the very similarly designed 2.4 liter engine. This problem is evidently more common than I realized.

Take a look HERE, HERE, and HERE. There are many other threads with this same discussion and the Toyota owner's outrage with the stripped head bolts and blown head gasket problems, or simply google "Camry stripped head bolts".
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#9 (permalink) Old 02-11-2013, 08:20 AM
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[QUOTE=drax71;809295] "

Hi,

"Head bolts are to be replaced and all torqued to 58 ft-lbs then add 90 degrees turn to each one"

This sounds very strong... I'm about to torque the head bolts... (tomorrow) .... can anyone confirm that this is the correct torque?

I have downloaded a repair manual for a 1AZ FE engine, although mine says 3S FE... apparently it is the same engine (different - right/left engine mountings only) and it also says the same, i.e 79N.m or 58 ft Lbs ... thing is, there is alot of conflicting technical data on various sites.

Thanks for response guys..
PS great site!
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