Toyota RAV4 Forums banner

Nitrogen vs. Air in Winter Tires

6K views 29 replies 17 participants last post by  Freedom55 
#1 ·
Hello,

I've seen some of the earlier posts about the pro's and con's of using nitrogen in your tires. However, I was wondering if there's any benefit for winter tires? I live in the NW and like to snowboard on Mt. Hood.

I'm wondering if there's any benefit to filling my winter tires with nitrogen because of the big change in elevation and temperature.

Any and all suggestions welcomed.
 
#2 ·
I wish it was available around here. I'd have it in everything. Much less pressure rise in summer & drop in winter.
Today's job is removing the pressure sensors off my truck & dyno trailer to keep them from alarming all winter.
I should just go buy a nitrogen tank & the fill regulator and use it on all 26 :eek: of my tires.
 
#21 ·
Good for you, eh?!
I'm no republican but in this case, I say government has no business mandating that all cars must have pressure monitoring systems. Next they'll be mandating heated seats and ipod USB interface.
You can thank Democratic President Bill Clinton for signing the TREAD act into law. That's what mandated TPMS on every car built since 2008. And it was all because some idiots drove their Ford Explorers with deflated Firestone tires that heated up and exploded.
 
#23 ·
You can thank Democratic President Bill Clinton for signing the TREAD act into law. That's what mandated TPMS on every car built since 2008. And it was all because some idiots drove their Ford Explorers with deflated Firestone tires that heated up and exploded.
Uhh.. well, not exactly..

The TREAD Act
"The Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation (TREAD) Act was passed by Congress in 2000 in response to a major recall of defective tires that created unsafe driving conditions and multiple driver fatalities (one hundred deaths due to rollovers were attributed to tire separation). The TREAD Act has since been incorporated into the existing National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966."

Also, having the right pressure in tires can save you several hundred in wasted gas as well as tire wear and consequently, less recycling and chemical usage.

On the negative side, I've read that there is a lot of paper work and expenses generated by the reporting requirements that are part of the act and disagreement about how it will affect warranties, etc.

Clinton signed it in 2000, but it was passed by the house and the Senate.. what's all this political bashing about and why is it such a big deal for you?
:shrug:
 
#4 ·
Since the earth's atmosphere is about 80% nitrogen anyway it doesn't seem logical that there would be an enormous and cost effective benefit from inflating tires with 100% nitrogen. ???
 
#6 ·
Bingo! The main advantage of nitrogen is that the process of separating and compressing it makes it really dry, almost no moisture at all. The only other minor advantage is that the permeability of nitrogen through rubber is slightly less than for oxygen. This means the tires should not loose pressure as quickly, the difference is very small

There's a misconception our there that nitrogen doesn't expand as much as air with temperature increase. This is not true because all gasses follow the ideal gas law Ideal gas law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. This law is not sensitive to the chemical nature of the gas, so there would be no difference between air and nitrogen, besides as previously pointed out, air is already 79-80% nitrogen anyway. The other misconception that you tires will run cooler is also not true. Inflated properly there is no difference between air and nitrogen. Theoretically if one did not check their tire pressures for 6mo or more the air filled tires might loose marginally more pressure and therefore run a bit warmer due to the extra rolling resistance and tire flexure. This is a side effect rather than a direct property of using nitrogen though


What causes larger pressure changes with air filled tires is the presence of moisture. Water can change phase from liquid to gas and back, the gas or vapor phase of water occupies a lot more space than the liquid phase, hence when you convert more of it from liquid to gas with heat, you get a pressure increase greater than it ideal gas law predicts. perfectly dry air would perform exactly the same as dry nitrogen in this respect.

I guess for winter driving a good dry fill is not a bad idea. I've seen poorly maintained air compressors that spray a fog of moisture when the filler trigger is pulled. That much water in your tires might be enough to puddle, freeze and throw your tires out of balance!
 
#9 ·
I'm not convinced there is big benefit to using nitrogen, but even it it were marginally superior to "air", I would still not use it because of the inconvenience.

Let's say you pay a few dollars extra to inflate your tires with nitrogen when you purchase them. A few months later when winter comes you notice the tires getting a little low in pressure. What do you do?. I'm certainly not going back to the tire shop when I have my own compressor. That would cost me both time and money. As soon as I add my own air, the initial expense for nitrogen is wasted.

As long as I am checking my tire pressure weekly :wink:, it only takes a minute to correct the pressure in my own driveway at zero cost.
 
#11 ·
I'm wondering if there's any benefit to filling my winter tires with nitrogen because of the big change in elevation and temperature.
Nitrogen will mean that you can go about 1.5 times as long before filling up again. That may be 2 months vs 3 months or 4 vs 6 months or 6 vs 9 months. It would depend on the value you put on time checking and refilling tires. That time in the coldest weather is probably worth more than it is in mild weather. Some people express shock at going 6 months without checking the air in tires.

Regarding the quality of air in winter vs summer, the air you add in the winter would usually be drier than in muggy summer. Drier is a little better. Some people

Note that some folks get emotional over nitrogen fills. It definitely has value, but the value to a given person may be less than the cost or convenience factor. I use air. Airlines and race cars use nitrogen. I expect the presidential limo uses nitrogen or even argon.
 
#12 ·
I lived in rural Minnesota with winter temps. sometimes -35F, inflated my winter tires only with our on-farm compressor, and never had a tire balance problem as long as I had the tires balanced when first having them installed onto the wheels (used same wheels both summer and winter). In cold weather the winter tires often had flat spots from standing overnight, but those soon disappeared when driving.
 
#16 ·
yeah, it is a GOOD IDEA if we really need an air all the time. why dont we look for to purchase a PORTABLE AIR TANK. there's 5 galloon air tank that i've seen online for less than 30$.

what do you think? this is cheaper than buying the nitrogen air. at least 5-7$ per tire, in Canada.
 
#24 ·
Hehe.. I was thinking the same thing. You can also fill the inside of you car with helium and sing along with your favorite music and sound like a chipmunk! :p
 
#25 ·
All: Everyone is entitled to their opinions, however, we ask that you please keep your responses on topic and in check with a civil tongue.

Always remember the golden rule of what not to discuss in polite company: politics, religion and sex. Save those for the Off-Topic boards or the appropriate forums.
 
#26 ·
I actually agree with doane2u on this one! :thumbs_up:

And also with karrock. I would never :eek: violate the golden rule.
 
#27 ·
My winter tires mounted on 17" steelies were filled with nitrogen at Costco when I bought them but I still replace those green plastic caps with chrome plated metal ones that have a rubber seal on the inside just to prevent possible leakage from the valves. I do the same on the 18" summer tire/wheel combos and they also look better than with the black plastic caps for just a couple of $$!
 
#30 ·
Thanks but I never had problems before as I remove the caps often to check pressure; I can understand someone leaving them on all winter long could have a problem in the spring with the amount of road salt they put here!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top