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post #11 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 12:06 PM
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I see in that eBay listing where the seller says it will not program a Smartkey.

I don't know why, my older version definitely does. I can't imagine why Toyota would have removed that capability. I think the seller is mistaken.

If you are adding a used Smartkey, you likely will have to wipe out any other Smartkey already programmed in, and add them all back in.

I did not have to do that with my eBay Smartkey, although I'm pretty sure it was used. So, I would try adding in before doing the wipe.

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post #12 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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So after some much more digging around, I can see that Techstream CAN program Smart Keys but there's a few catches.

1.) If you have a virgin Smart Key (i.e. not linked to another car), then Techstream should work OK

2.) If you have a used Smart Key (i.e. it belonged to another car), then Techstream could work, but won't without a dynamically generated passcode. The passcode is NOT static. The Techstream software will generate a 96-digit "SEED" code which you need to place into another program along with your VIN# to calculate the passcode. The Techstream software needs to be running the entire time without being closed as otherwise the SEED code changes (and hence so would the passcode).

The (relatively inexpensive) eBay keys referred to on these forums were largely physical keys with transponders inside, not Smart Keys. The eBay Smart Keys I'm seeing are all around $100 with shipping. I found one website selling a virgin key that I need for $110USD + $10 shipping. I'm in Canada so this would translate to approximately $150CDN. Add in the Techstream software and cable @ $30 and I'm at $180CDN, which is the price a locksmith quoted me (which would defeat the purpose of DIY in my situation)

I haven't given up yet. There is still benefit in having the Techstream software and cable to use for other things.

I'm trying to see if I can find cheaper used Smart Keys but the bigger obstacle is the passcode you need to obtain for programming used Smart Keys.

Any help?
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post #13 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 04:43 PM
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I don't know where you are getting your information from.

I've never seen Toyota require a passcode. Some other manufacturers do, but not a 2010 RAV4.

To program in a used Smartkey, you do an immobilizer reset, using the Techstream package. Then, program in all the Smartkeys you have. If you get a new Smartkey, the reset should not be necessary.

You must, of course, have the correct Smartkey. My 2012 uses HYQ14AEM, I believe 2010 is the same.

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post #14 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normkol View Post
I don't know where you are getting your information from.

I've never seen Toyota require a passcode. Some other manufacturers do, but not a 2010 RAV4.

To program in a used Smartkey, you do an immobilizer reset, using the Techstream package. Then, program in all the Smartkeys you have. If you get a new Smartkey, the reset should not be necessary.

You must, of course, have the correct Smartkey. My 2012 uses HYQ14AEM, I believe 2010 is the same.
Here's the post regarding the Techstream passcode function.

...and an indirect Youtube video regarding the same issue.


From the Youtube comments alone, you can see a comment by BoulderHybrids:

"If the key you were trying to add was used (i.e. previously programmed to another car) you need to do a seed reset which is way more complicated and requires a calculated passcode. Before you start check that the FOBs have the same FCC ID written on the back. If not the same FCC ID it probably won't work. Also check the FOB battery is good (small LED should light when you press any button)..."

I attached a copy of instructions regarding the passcode function as well.
(based on on of the first Youtube comments)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Instruction_PASS_CODE_Calculator_ENG (reduced filesize).pdf (1.06 MB, 12 views)
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post #15 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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Here's another post I found useful (by "carchitect"):

"Already registered keys will not re-register to another vehicle. Registered keys will not work on another vehicle. The keys must also have a match for the communication protocal used. FCC ID numbers only dictate the wireless frequency used but not what is being communicated. Both Lexus and Toyota use the same keys but three different circuit boards on the keys. The Lexus wallet key can also be used on the Toyota vehicles as long as the key boards for each one match. My 08 IS350 key board uses a number 0140 My 2012 Highlander also uses 0140 so the smart wallet key card for the IS350 will also work on my Highlander. 09+ IS models use 3390 and 2010+ RX uses 5290. The keys are different. The 0140 and 3390 keys use the same FCC ID but will not interchange.

If you loose all keys, Toyota or Lexus dealers can reset your smart key ecu (this is called reseed) where the ecu is born again virgin and has no keys married to it. Reset reseed is done with Toyota/Lexus logging the information. An RO has to be generated to make this happen. This doesn't happen for free. New or used keys can be registered only at this time. The key has to have the same protocal to be reused or it will not work.

Immobilizer only vehicles (non-smart keys) are no big deal. Immobilizer is done different from wireless door lock registration. "
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post #16 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not trying to post back-to-back but I wanted to add that there is one suspicion I have.

Based on the above, the reset function used is if there is NO KEY to start the car (assumes all keys are lost). The poster claims that this is the only time a pre-programmed Smart Key can be re-programmed to another car.

That statement seems odd to me, but I have read it under a few other posts before (albeit, titled differently, such as "Immobilizer Reset"). Why would that be the only time that you could re-program a used key? I'm not seeing the value, which is why I'm questioning it. It seems like an unnecessary hoop to jump through but maybe I'm missing something.
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post #17 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-24-2015, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation

@normkol

Since you were helping me earlier, I just wanted to let you know I made a longer post in the "stickied" thread. Funny enough, when I went back to dig up all the old posts, I found it was one of yours that mentioned the passcode!

Quote:
Originally Posted by normkol View Post
I don't know where you are getting your information from.

I've never seen Toyota require a passcode. Some other manufacturers do, but not a 2010 RAV4.

To program in a used Smartkey, you do an immobilizer reset, using the Techstream package. Then, program in all the Smartkeys you have. If you get a new Smartkey, the reset should not be necessary.

You must, of course, have the correct Smartkey. My 2012 uses HYQ14AEM, I believe 2010 is the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by normkol View Post
Ok, I hooked up the Techstream today and took a look.

...

One of the options then will be Smartkey reset. In the description given at the bottom when you click on this option, it says you will need a password. I don't know anything about that, since I never used it...
What have you done with normkol! What kind of sick individual murders a forum poster, assumes their identity, and then tries to help other people with their RAV4s!?!



For what its worth, my keys are FCC-ID is HYQ14AAB and IC is 1551A-14AAB
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post #18 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-24-2015, 10:53 AM
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This is the real normkol, I got rid of the imposter.

I totally forgot that other post, it's from 2013. Like I said there, I've never done an immobilizer reset, so I haven't seen those screens.

I was checking on a locksmith forum where they discussed programming Toyota's and no one mentioned this reset code. But, they use dedicated programming machines, not Techstream. So, it might function differently.

If you lose all keys to a vehicle, they do an ECU flash, which then prepares the ECU to accept new keys. This is different than the immobilizer reset, for which you must have at least one working key.

And, yes, the locksmiths do discuss the circuit board number, it must match the other smartkey or you could have problems. The FCC number only refersto the remote portion of the Smartkey, not the immobilizer function.

I don't know if this clears things up for you. As you said yourself, the locksmith quoted you a price that was about equal to doing it yourself. Maybe you should just let him do it and save the headaches.

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post #19 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-24-2015, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks normkol.

While it would be the same price to DIY (if I can't find a cheaper key), my goal is to find a cheaper key

Also, I know that getting the Techstream software (and cable) will be useful for me to diagnose any other issues with the RAV4 as well as any further customization (for example, our rear-view camera stopped working. We took it to the dealer to diagnose during an oil change but they said that they couldn't figure out what was wrong. They asked for us to pay ~$85 just to diagnose what's wrong, without any guarantee that they would figure it out)

So on with the search, I have to agree with you that the Reset function requiring the passcode is to remove all keys and re-register them. Here is a Toyota Technical Service Bulletin document I found on the entire procedure. There's nothing new in it, but it does confirm what was previously mentioned. A quick excerpt from the "Introduction":

"The Immobilizer and Smart Key Reset is a feature that allows the registration of new keys when all master keys are lost. Once the system is reset, all previously registered keys will be erased. Follow the procedures in this bulletin to reset a vehicle Immobilizer or Smart Key system."

Its interesting to see how the function is performed internally, but I bring it up to highlight that its designed for when all keys are lost and presumably, when there is no key to even start the car. My suspicion could still be wrong (about being able to add a "used" key some other way) but I'll keep digging.

I found another document (in very poor English) that refers to Key Programming. Its hard to follow but I did note a peculiarity.

Under Page 7, it mentions that during the Key Programming stage using a Master Key, that once the Master Key is provided (first stage) to leave it outside of the car. Then when providing the second key (the key being registered) to leave that one on the passenger side of the car (inside the car). This is contrary to what the individual in the Youtube video did (see post), and could possibly explain the error (especially since the Techstream software doesn't mention it anywhere on the screen prompts), and again especially since they video author mentions he did the function again but wasn't sure what changed (i.e. he may have set the key aside this time).

I had another note to make, but I can't find the source (ATM). It has stated that in order to add keys, the car needed to have at least 2 to begin with. This could also explain why other users where having issues adding keys when they were only given 1 with their car.
(I could understand this as a security feature, where if the car was only intended to have 1 key, you would need to do a full reset and associate 2 or more)

I have to stress, this is all speculation on my part. I am not an expert and do not claim to be one, I'm simply trying to figure out as much as I can so that I can make an informed decision before I put money on the table.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf sb0043t14.pdf (1.83 MB, 7 views)
File Type: pdf Edilock_Toyota_Device_manual_english_V8.0.pdf (1.69 MB, 6 views)

Last edited by -Unknown-; 04-24-2015 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Added attachments in case links ever go offline
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post #20 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-24-2015, 04:34 PM
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I can't offer much help other than to say, be careful. I accidentally washed one of my smart keys a few years ago, and in my attempt to self program a replacement key, I ended up immobilizing my '10 Limited.
I had purchased a used key (same FCC ID), and some POS programming unit from eBay. Bad idea. After immobilizing my Rav, I ended up finding a locksmith a few hours away who came to my house and fixed everything. He got the used key and my one remaining original key working again. He spent a long time on it.
As you said about your experience with the rear view camera failure, my local dealer was very uncertain that they could fix it without me buying all new ECU's and keys. Needless to say, I wanted to avoid the dealer like a plague.



In the end, I paid $300 for the used key and for the locksmith to reprogram and re-mobilize (opposite of immobilize?) my car. Still cheaper than the dealer was going to charge for a replacement key.

Good luck.

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