Smart Keys: Replacement Info & How-To - Page 3 - Toyota RAV4 Forums
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post #21 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-24-2015, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by normkol View Post
As you said yourself, the locksmith quoted you a price that was about equal to doing it yourself. Maybe you should just let him do it and save the headaches.
That would be my vote after my mess, although I tend to be a complete DIY guy.

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post #22 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-24-2015, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, so a few updates from additional information I could find.

About Smart Keys
(source link, requires free registration for full article, I've attached it as well)

"...one of the things a Smart Key broadcasts its unique Key ID code, which is burned into its memory at the factory. The other is the Vehicle ID code, which is obtained from the car and burned to the Smart Key during the registration process. Just as a key blank is cut to work with a particular vehicle, the key registration process also alters the Smart Key to “fit” the “lock”."

So this debunks my earlier understanding that nothing is written to the key. Per the above, the key contains two IDs, one native, the other dynamic. The way I see it, the IDs are no different than names. The key has a name its born with (say "Tom"), then your car also has a name (say "Sally") which is written to the key during its registration.

What may give the illusion that the keys are registered to the car alone (and not 2-way) is that your car never gives out any of the names during its (standard) communications. The oscillators in the car broadcast to everyone "state the name of the car you're looking for". When a key is nearby, it will state "I'm looking for Sally". If your car's name is Sally, it says "Hey, I'm Sally, what's your name?". In the response, it has to be one of the names the car has registered into memory (such as "Tom") in order for the full handshake to occur.

I'll bring this up later.

About the ECUs
(source link same as above)

The article is specific to Prius and Camry, but it may also apply to RAV4s.

There appears to be 2 ECUs that require attention:
-The Main Body ECU
-The Immobiliser ECU

The Main Body ECU is the electronic ignition switch where as the Immobiliser ECU is the lockbox that holds the keys. The is a shared security code (referred to as S-Code) between these two units. This is to avoid tampering and ensure that someone doesn't swap one out to try and get the car running with different keys.

Why is this important? During the key registration process, this could explain some of the difficulties experienced. From Part 2 of the article (source link, requires free registration for full article, I've attached it as well).

"If your customer is just adding a Smart Key, there are only two steps.
-Register the new key(s) in the Immobiliser ECU (ID Code Box).
-Register the new key(s) in the Smart Key ECU (Certification ECU)."


...and confirming what we already know:

"When all Smart Keys have been lost
-If all keys are lost, you’ll need to perform a Seed Reset."


(a Seed Reset would require the mentioned passcode)

Used Smart Keys / EBay Smart Keys
(source link same as above, Part 2)

"New Smart Keys come with a Key ID burned in at the factory, but the Vehicle ID is blank. If a customer brings a key in with a Vehicle ID already burned, you will be able to register it in the Immobiliser (ID Code Box). However, you will not be able to register the key to in the Smart Key ECU (Certification ECU) (<-- I called this the Main Body ECU above). In other words, you have a key that will start the car when the inserted in the key slot (<--tapped near the Start Button), but none of the wireless functions will work (I am not sure if this means the keyfob portion, or the remote ability to start the car without pressing the key right up against the Start button)."

Some advice that may work:
"If the numbers and the battery are OK, the next step is to erase all keys from the Immobiliser ECU (ID Code Box) and the Smart Key ECU (using the same key). Then try registering all of the remaining keys, including the new key. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn’t."

...whether this requires a Seed Reset or not is unclear.

Some more advice...
"If the erasing all key codes did not solve your wireless registration woes, try a Smart Key (<--Main Body ECU)Reset, followed by an Immobiliser Reset. VERY IMPORTANT – use the suspect key for the resets. When finished, you will have one key registered in the Immobiliser ECU and no keys registered in the Smart Key ECU. Go ahead and register the key in the Smart Key ECU. It should work.

Don’t let failure freak you out. It happens sometimes. If at first you fail, try again. It’s not a one shot only deal (although there may be some sort of limit)."


This makes it seem like the wireless function is simply the keyfob. Some other user posts talked about how the dealership was able to get the car to accept the used key, but the keyfob wouldn't function... so this would seem to align with that.

All of this, could be solved with this:
"The Immobiliser registration always seems to go smoothly. If there’s going to be trouble, it’s likely to occur when registering the key in the Smart Key ECU (wireless registration). The scanner will offer the following advice when registration fails. “Make sure the Smart Cancel Switch is off and the IG ON”. The manual will offer even less."

I haven't seen anyone mention this when programming the keyfob portion and post it here FWIW.

...and some last generic advice (less likely the issue, but could explain why multiple attempts succeed)
"Wireless interference can hamper wireless key registration efforts. Put your cell phone in airplane mode, move the car away from transformers, wireless routers, fluorescent lights, etc.

Rogue keys can be very frustrating. If one of the Smart Keys in the car has a stuck lock or unlock button, it can ruin your day. Remove all but essential keys from the car, and then try again."



Last but not least, there is an entry on Toyota's TIS "Known Bugs" page that made me chuckle slightly (as if there wasn't enough complexity)

Immobilizer/Smart Key Reset Abnormal Operation

"Vehicle: All
Device(s): Techstream and Techstream Lite (Mongoose VIM)
Description: When performing an Immobilizer or Smart Key Reset, errors or abnormal operation may occur if Java software is not installed, has become corrupt, or version is too old. Installing the latest version of Java (v1.6 - Update 7, minimum) from java.com: Java + You will resolve this issue."


This was also never mentioned, and could also be a cause of issues. FWIW again.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SmartKey.pdf (818.7 KB, 16 views)
File Type: pdf 200911mto_smartkey2.pdf (940.6 KB, 12 views)
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post #23 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-26-2015, 11:11 PM
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Not everything is as it seems..

I suspect that a lot of people who have failures with making their own smart keys may not be aware that Toyota (and others) use different frequencies in different countries. I think that the immobilsers are the same BUT the frequency used for the doors and alarm are different. Few vendors also seem to be aware of this fact. If you are US based (perhaps Canada also and maybe some other countries) then no problem but I can assure you that New Zealand (at least) uses different frequencies. Toyota US 433MHz, NZ (anyway) 315MHz. You need to buy a key with the right frequency, then make sure that whatever method you use is the correct one for your country.
Still a work in progress for me and I have found this to be extremely frustrating.
If I ever get it sorted I will post on here.
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post #24 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-26-2015, 11:39 PM
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And don't believe everything you read..

Apologies but the frequencies I mentioned in the previous item might be around the other way. I had all this sussed but now can't find the right document containing the details.
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post #25 of 82 (permalink) Old 04-28-2015, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissybabe View Post
...You need to buy a key with the right frequency...
Yes, that's why its important to match up a few numbers to ensure you are getting the same part (which would operate by the same frequency).

The FCC-ID is actually not directly related to the frequency it uses, but you can leverage its labeling standard to find a compatible match.

The labeling standard (see attached or link here) is:

FCC-ID:
First 3 digits: Grantee Code (for the company)
Remaining digits: Equipment Product Code

IC:
First set of numbers (before dash): Company ID Number
Second set of numbers (after dash): Unique Product Number

Per the above, you'll notice that the Equipment Product Code and Unique Product Number are the same on the keyfobs. My understanding is that this is the part that's important since its what's unique to the Part number (you'll see it shared between Lexus and Toyota, which is why some of the keyfobs are interchangeable).

Now, the last piece is the Circuit Board number which is inside the keyfob. I can't find a whole lot of information on its labeling standard but its basically what you want to match up to make sure you can pair it with the ignition of your car. I'm not clear whether there's any wiggle room with the numbers to find other compatible parts (from what I've read, only the last 4 digits need to match). Maybe someone who's an authority on the subject can chime in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissybabe View Post
Still a work in progress for me and I have found this to be extremely frustrating.
If I ever get it sorted I will post on here.
+1

Please do.

I've purchased the Techstream cable but am still in the process of trying to source a key for a decent price. I will also post my experience once I get some hands on time.

Last edited by -Unknown-; 06-01-2015 at 01:09 PM.
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post #26 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-04-2015, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Alright, I updated the OP with detailed steps on how to add a new and used Smart Key. Just making a post for a bump.

This may be "sticky" worthy, but I will leave it up to the mods/members to recommend if so.
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post #27 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by -Unknown- View Post
Alright, I updated the OP with detailed steps on how to add a new and used Smart Key. Just making a post for a bump.

This may be "sticky" worthy, but I will leave it up to the mods/members to recommend if so.
Thank you. I'm glad I found your thread. I bought a Rav4 with only 1 smart key too. The dealer in Calgary asked me $500+GST for a spare one. I am ordering a MVCI cable and looking for a used remote key on ebay (I cannot find one on kijiji like yours). I hope that I can make one follow your instruction later.

This thread should be a sticky one.
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post #28 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-06-2015, 08:03 PM
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I have question for Unknown:

What about if the battery in the smart key got dead, now car cannot sense key any more when you enter into the car and press the push start, UNLESS you bring the key back to the push start button before it will start the car,

Now new battery was purchased and replace yet the car doors wont lock wireless and also the oscillator wont detect and start the car, unless you bring the back of the key to the push start button.. and press start before it will start car.

I tried to relearn the key again but failed at the stage where it says place key at front passenger seat, any time i get to this part, i receive error that unable to complete the process, and it will list some few reasons why it might have failed..

now this key is not from different car but rather same car just that the fob battery died and had replace the battery yet the remote lock wont work again and also, the car is not detecting the key as it is in the car, unless you bring it closer to the push start button.

what should i do, must i reset the smart ecu before all this will work or what at all is preventing the whole process from completing..

thank you
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post #29 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-07-2015, 11:52 AM
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I, unfortunately, have replaced the battery numerous times in my smart key fob. Every month for the last 6 months. These batteries don't seem to be lasting.

Never have I had a problem with having to re-program the fob. It always works as before.

Silly question, but are you sure you have the battery in correctly? You should be able to read the engraved side when it is installed.

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post #30 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-07-2015, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normkol View Post
I, unfortunately, have replaced the battery numerous times in my smart key fob. Every month for the last 6 months. These batteries don't seem to be lasting.
Something is very wrong. Mine last three years in the fob.

One thing that can drain the battery is keeping the fob near a radio or electrical transmitter of any kind such as a wireless home phone or smart phone. It's a pain for my mate who keeps the fob in her purse with iPhone.

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