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#21 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rav4ian
Sorry, I just have to disagree over the 2 wheel drivers 4wd system in Rav4 is sufficient enough for everyday drive, nothing hardcore. I've to disagree with Rickl, you totally wrong when you said
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Originally Posted by Rickl
A 4wd has no advantage in stopping or cornering over a 2wd. Both types of vehicles have the same 4 wheel braking and front wheel steering systems.
Rick
4wd helps eliminates understeer and oversteer either when breaking or cornering since you'll always have tractions at 4 of your wheels. What makes you can't stop is the fact that the tires has no grip to the ground or the ground is too icy or speed that kills the whole benefits you have invested
In my first message I said that entering a corner too quickly in a 4wd will not offer any benifits over a 2wd. And I think you acknowledged that as well.

In another message I did acknowledge that 4wd will be a benifit in accelerating out of a corner because it is less likely for a tire to break loose under additional throttle.

Before ABS, a 4wd vehicle with a locking center differential was less likely to lock up an individual tire during braking, because the traction on the other axle would force the first axle to keep turning. Since ABS was introduced, along with 4wd systems that automatically transfer power (no locking differential), each wheel behaves independantly of the others during braking and 4wd braking offers no advantage over 2wd braking.

Rick
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#22 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 11:54 AM
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Before this thread turns into a long winded debate about the 4wd system of the Rav, I would like to share what I tend to do in these situations. I too have a steep hill (I belive it is ~ 8% grade) to go down to get to my house and more offten than not you see tracks or a vehical on the sidewalk from someone not making the turn because of ice or snow.

What I do is: I use engine braking, tap the brakes just enough to slow you down then put it in a lower gear, (1 gear at a time you don't want to slow down too fast). I keep doing this until I am at a manigable speed for either braking or turning.

I did try the DAC recently as I reported in an early thread but has been lost do to the HACKING . I must say it works well, but you have you have to already be going slow enough for it to engage.

These things only work if you know whats ahead and can plan for them. But if the conditions are bad and you don't know the road things, you should taking it slow anyways.

Again this is what I do in these situations.

SS-
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#23 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 01:45 PM
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Last friday (after an ice storm) I experienced for the first time the VSC on my Rav. I was cornering obviously a bit too fast and the car starts to go out on the curve! Suddenly I hear the beep, beep, beep and magically the trucklet got into the right bearing. VERY NICE!
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#24 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpotoso
Last friday (after an ice storm) I experienced for the first time the VSC on my Rav. I was cornering obviously a bit too fast and the car starts to go out on the curve! Suddenly I hear the beep, beep, beep and magically the trucklet got into the right bearing. VERY NICE!
I think this was supposed to be a safety feature. However it has forced me to make turns at higher speeds that I normally would, just to see how the VSC handles it.

I wasn't sure that I would like the vehicle taking control , but so far I am very entertained at how the system works. Since the snow was on the ground I rarely make a turn without trying to make the vehicle slide.

Disclaimer: This should only be done on a controlled road with limited traffic by a trained professional driver. Children under 12 should not attempt this procedure without adult supervision.

Rick
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#25 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 07:19 PM
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[quote="Rickl"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpotoso
Last friday (after an ice storm) I experienced for the first time the VSC on my Rav. I was cornering obviously a bit too fast and the car starts to go out on the curve! Suddenly I hear the beep, beep, beep and magically the trucklet got into the right bearing. VERY NICE!
I think this was supposed to be a safety feature. However it has forced me to make turns at higher speeds that I normally would, just to see how the VSC handles it.

I wasn't sure that I would like the vehicle taking control , but so far I am very entertained at how the system works. Since the snow was on the ground I rarely make a turn without trying to make the vehicle slide.

Disclaimer: This should only be done on a controlled road with limited traffic by a trained professional driver. Children under 12 should not attempt this procedure without adult supervision.






Wish i would have seen the disclaimer sooner, let my 8 year old try some donuts, LOL
On a serious note, first time i heard the beeps, it scared the crap outta me. had no idea what it was. do you really need to b alerted to the problem so annoyingly. i think i now when i'm skidding. quite frankly this ute's controlling systems are starting to get on my nerves, really wish i could turn them off and on as I please.ABS, ok i get it, no need to turn that one off but please, sometimes i LIKE to slide, sometimes I LIKE to accelerate thru a turn without the damn stability system kicking in. my bad cause i should have researched the ute better before buying it. although in this day and age you would be hard pressed to find an auto without these safety features. shoulda kept my camaro 350 4 barrel, now that was a hoot in the snow.
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#26 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rav4ian

Comment to mhsgsx, I've to disagree to you too. Like ive commented to Rick, it does have advantages. ABS is a must no matter you drive fwd, rwd, awd, or 4wd. That's the thing prevent your wheels to lock so your tires won't slide on slippery surface. you'll never know when your 4wd kicks in, its really fast. Its operating on 4wd even when you're driving at slight curvy road at 45mph. You just never know. Check the explaination on how the RAV 4.3 4wd works here http://auto-presse.tv/technik.php?ac...w&newsid=11198 You'll be amazed why this mini suv can slalom at 61mph if not because of the 4wd.
I know exactly how the Rav's AWD system works. It's reactionary, and after taking some 90* turns in the snow, it doesn't react very fast. (But then again "fast" is subjective)

And sorry, 61 mph isn't anything to write home about. My previous DD was an FX45 and it would eat the RAV in handling. Surprisingly, its AWD system was very similar to the RAV's. The main difference is that under normal driving, the CORRECT wheels were being driven (RWD until slip was detected).

Quote:
P.S. Don't be surprise when you spend more on gas on the snowy icy winter days. Your 4wd demand their part of the juice
That's mainly because you're stuck in traffic with those who can't drive worth $hit.
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#27 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerad
On a serious note, first time i heard the beeps, it scared the crap outta me. had no idea what it was. do you really need to b alerted to the problem so annoyingly. i think i now when i'm skidding. quite frankly this ute's controlling systems are starting to get on my nerves, really wish i could turn them off and on as I please.ABS, ok i get it, no need to turn that one off but please, sometimes i LIKE to slide, sometimes I LIKE to accelerate thru a turn without the damn stability system kicking in. my bad cause i should have researched the ute better before buying it. although in this day and age you would be hard pressed to find an auto without these safety features. shoulda kept my camaro 350 4 barrel, now that was a hoot in the snow.
If you want to try your RAV with the VSC disabled, here is a http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopi...t=4313&start=0 with instructions which will disable it until the next startup.

I also enjoy sliding around corners in the snow, but as a tech junkie, I am very amused at how the system works. I guess sometimes the road is so slippery that the braking of the VSC makes no difference, but other times the RAV just seems to snap back into a straight line.

Rick
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#28 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 10:21 PM
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very cool, will give it a try thanx Rickl
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#29 (permalink) Old 12-11-2007, 12:59 AM
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Okay, when i talked about 61mph slalom speed. I wasn't comparing it with Acura RDX SH AWD or Infinity FX AWD or BENZ. BTW, If you notice, you're comparing high 20Gs SUV with 40Gs SUV. I don't want to extend the nonsense debate here.

My point was, we were talking about 2WD rav4 and 4WD RAV4. So, I was trying to point out that getting the 4WD RAV4 gives you benefits. One of the obvious proof is the slalom speed. It's as fast as my .8G Accord slalom at 65MPH. Let me know when you can get at that speed with your FWD RAV4. All risks at yours, of course.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mhgsx
Quote:
Originally Posted by rav4ian

Comment to mhsgsx, I've to disagree to you too. Like ive commented to Rick, it does have advantages. ABS is a must no matter you drive fwd, rwd, awd, or 4wd. That's the thing prevent your wheels to lock so your tires won't slide on slippery surface. you'll never know when your 4wd kicks in, its really fast. Its operating on 4wd even when you're driving at slight curvy road at 45mph. You just never know. Check the explaination on how the RAV 4.3 4wd works here http://auto-presse.tv/technik.php?ac...w&newsid=11198 You'll be amazed why this mini suv can slalom at 61mph if not because of the 4wd.
I know exactly how the Rav's AWD system works. It's reactionary, and after taking some 90* turns in the snow, it doesn't react very fast. (But then again "fast" is subjective)

And sorry, 61 mph isn't anything to write home about. My previous DD was an FX45 and it would eat the RAV in handling. Surprisingly, its AWD system was very similar to the RAV's. The main difference is that under normal driving, the CORRECT wheels were being driven (RWD until slip was detected).

Quote:
P.S. Don't be surprise when you spend more on gas on the snowy icy winter days. Your 4wd demand their part of the juice
That's mainly because you're stuck in traffic with those who can't drive worth $hit.
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#30 (permalink) Old 12-11-2007, 01:27 AM
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snow tires

so, lots of discussion here about the 4wd system and some truly hilarious comments about VSC and such... I just thought I'd add one more thing to this because I'm pretty sure it hasn't been mentioned. I could be wrong, its getting to be a long thread.

Anyways -- The rubber that makes up a snow tire versus an all season (stock) tire is prettymuch the same at normal temperatures. However once you get near to freezing, the rubber on an all-season or summer tire hardens and loses its ability to grip. This is where snow tires come in handy in that they don't harden like that. There are also some great technological advancements that have happened in tires ever since the inception of the Blizzak (and similar) tire... Companies have come to develop tires to do all sorts of things that they didn't used to be able to do.

Prettymuch every tire manufacturer offers some form of ice tire like the michelin x-ice, bridgestone (?) blizzak, yokohama IT, etc etc. It would be a good idea to equip your vehicle with those if you get ice on any form of regular basis. They will help for certain. My rav was unacceptable on snow and ice with the yokohama stock tires. I now have a quality winter tire on there and it handles like a champ...

All the best,
~Frost
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