Engine Knock !! - Toyota RAV4 Forums
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#1 (permalink) Old 10-11-2011, 11:53 AM
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Exclamation Engine Knock !!

Well,
I have had a very loud engine knock cold for some time. I bought the car used from a local dealer, with 49k on it and it know has 55k, and on cold start the thing literally sounds like a diesel. It knocks all the way to my sons school and back home (people turn to see what is coming), over 30 minutes before it begins to quiet a bit. You can still hear some slight knock at idle. I have had one Toyota tech tell me it is "normal piston slap" UHH!! no way, I was a master tech in the late 90's and this is not normal, so I took it too the dealer where I bought it and they did a TSB-0094-09 for updating the VVTi cams and gears. They agreed this was one of the loudest knocks they had heard and the Advisor said these engines should not be sounding like diesels or knocking.. So, I picked it up and it was exactly the same. Drove around the parking lot at around 15-20 MPH slight acceleration and the thing just knocked. My wife drove with me at home that night and asked how come the motor was knocking, "I thought they were fixing that?"- So here is my question, how many have a loud diesel knocking noise that does not ever really go away and lasts for a long time even on 50-60 degree mornings... I put my chassis ears on the block (rear) and you could hear the loud knock and it gets extreme with slight acceleration, so I put it on the front opposite corner and it is quieter. Seems to be on the firewall side cylinders. The update did nothing for mine.

Last edited by 07RAV4; 10-11-2011 at 11:56 AM. Reason: update- car is now back at dealer for morning cold start and drive! Waiting to hear back from them.
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#2 (permalink) Old 10-11-2011, 12:00 PM
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Update- Back at dealer for cold start this morning and test drive, waiting to hear back.. Any ideas on what to do if they try and say it is normal or some sort of valve noise!! I drove 3 of the v6's when test driving and none did this. The salesman said he had to put gas in this one and left for about 20-30 minutes before returning, now I know why! The noise has gotten worse as we have owned it and kept taking longer to quiet down until finally the noise did not completely go away, which is when I decided to go back to the dealer. OH and by the way, I have had the trans and water pump already replaced once!! Not so reliable...
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#3 (permalink) Old 10-11-2011, 07:14 PM
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DEAR 07RAV4,
Not off topic here, but I purchased a used 98 Honda Civic 3door in 2000. It developed "cold piston slap" right after my 30 day warranty expired. Contact Consumer Advocate Support. I had found this in the front of my phone book back then - but now search the internet, and they were instrumental in resolving the issue. Evidently "cold piston slap" was historic in this Civic 1998 model. I hope this works for you; but save every receipt, time lost from work and any other expense directly related to the care of this vehicle. We were both stuck with a vehicle that lost it's integrity for resale, (at one time), and I traded up to Toyota as soon as fiscally feasible. Best of luck - and don't give up. SDReilly
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#4 (permalink) Old 10-12-2011, 04:59 PM
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I have a mild case of cold knock and posted about it here (if you bother to search).

I would advise you to call the corporate Toyota customer service 1-800 # and complain to them. Sometimes it works, and at least you will have documentation of the problem.
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#5 (permalink) Old 10-12-2011, 06:11 PM
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07RAV4, you definitely have something severely wrong. Since you say the rear cylinders I'll assume it's a V6. Ours just turned 93,000 and we have not even a hint of knock at any time. I'd say it's either an ignition system problem, something amiss with the variable valve timing or a cracked or cracking piston. Since you say it goes away, or at least used to, after 30 minutes, I'd rule out the ignition and VVT system since they'd go away quicker. Sure sounds like internal issues. Is it under any warranty?

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It's the pedal (or the handgrip) on the right!!
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#6 (permalink) Old 11-06-2011, 09:21 AM
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UPDATE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Dyno View Post
07RAV4, you definitely have something severely wrong. Since you say the rear cylinders I'll assume it's a V6. Ours just turned 93,000 and we have not even a hint of knock at any time. I'd say it's either an ignition system problem, something amiss with the variable valve timing or a cracked or cracking piston. Since you say it goes away, or at least used to, after 30 minutes, I'd rule out the ignition and VVT system since they'd go away quicker. Sure sounds like internal issues. Is it under any warranty?
So I went back to the dealer after they replaced the VVTI gears because it did not help. They then said it was a normal knock and another one on the lot same year did the same thing. So I asked to listen to it: GUESS WHAT? No vehicle existed. They started an 08 V6 with 70k miles (more than mine) and it was quiet. The service manager got upset and said he would send out a FST (Field Service Tech) but they will probably not do anything. Sure enough, he spent 10 minutes with the car and said it was normal and all do it, but he could not show me one car on the lot that had that noise. So I had them put down in writing how they determined no engine damage exists. The manager wrote down "audible noise within Toyota Specs". What, SO I asked what are Toyota's audible noise specs and how do you determine what is too much Piston Knock (which they admitted it was). He got pissed and said they had made their decision and are not repairing the engine and I had to leave. So now I am taking Toyota to arbitration.. I have two independent shops that specialize in Toyota saying the engine is defective and the if you have a six cylinder and five pistons are not making noise and one is, then one is defective. If 70% of the engines do not make the noise (as they could not produce one on the lot that did) and 30% do, then those 30% are defective and NOT normal..It means the engineering missed the mark on those cylinders and pistons and went too far with the tolerances. Toyota just wants everyone to accept their screw up.. Personally their needs to be a class action lawsuit on this. Under warranty these cars need to be repaired.. PERIOD!!
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#7 (permalink) Old 11-06-2011, 10:09 AM
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I would go to another dealer and ask them to check it. Don't say anything about the other dealer. Since you're still under the 60K powertrain warranty, this should be taken care of by Toyota, regardless of what one dealer says.

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#8 (permalink) Old 11-06-2011, 10:28 AM
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Don't say anything about the other dealer.
The next dealer will see the work done by the first dealer as soon as they put the VIN into the computer.

If you bought the car as a certified pre-owned, then there is no way for Toyota to weasel out of this. If you bought it from a non-Toyota dealer, and there are no service records, then they may say it was the result of poor maintenance by the first owner. Perhaps that is what happened with the first owner, they did their own maintenance and when taking it in for the noise, were denied because it was obvious that they had never changed the oil, so they traded in for a non-Toyota. Register your VIN at Toyota Owners Official Website: Service Coupons, Owners Manuals, Service Scheduling and More and download the service records. I'm curious as to what's there.

The Toyota Experience Hotline is definitely the next step in the process. They are open 7:30 - 5:30 PST. 800-331-4331

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#9 (permalink) Old 11-06-2011, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friendly_jacek View Post
I have a mild case of cold knock and posted about it here (if you bother to search).

I would advise you to call the corporate Toyota customer service 1-800 # and complain to them. Sometimes it works, and at least you will have documentation of the problem.
Did you make the call?

Also, you may want to watch this:
" title="Toyota 3.5 engine tick tap - YouTube" target="_blank">Toyota 3.5 engine tick tap - YouTube
and read the follow up in the discussion.
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