First oil change? Bring your own!

[bob-o]

I wanted to change over to Mobil 1 at the first oil change, so when I made the appointment I verified they could do that. I knew they would rip me off for the price of the oil, but I didn't expect them to charge $63, about double the price at the auto parts store.

The service guy was friendly enough, and told the tech to get started before telling me the price. I get the impression that is standard procedure. I said "Wait a minute, what is this going to cost me?" When they told me $63 I said I would recycle their oil right away and put in my own.

As I was sitting in the waiting area, the guy came over to explain that they could not put the Toyota branded 0-20w Mobil 1 in my car, so they had to use 5-30 that cost them more. He justified $9 a quart by saying they had to make a profit and there were labor costs. I didn't bother to bring up the 7.5 quarts of oil they would not use if they sold me the Mobil 1.

Conventional oil is good for the break-in period because there needs to be some wear as parts seat in. After that synthetic is the only way to go IMO. Next time I'll bring my own.

[Dr. Dyno]

Originally Posted by bob-o

The service guy was friendly enough ... He justified $9 a quart by saying they had to make a profit and there were labor costs.

A smile and that statement could justify ANY price! Did he mean you were paying twice for the labor?

[SuperT]

That's nothing. When we moved from Arizona to Tennessee last year into an apartment before buying a house I had to take my car to the local Mazda dealership for an oil change after driving it across country. Normally I always do my own oil changes but living in an apartment it wasn't happening so in I went. I asked for Mobil1 and guess how much my total cost was for an oil change? $118!!! My jaw nearly hit the ground when they told me the price. I chalked it up to having to only do it once since I'd never have to have it changed at the dealership after this one time, but needless to say I was shocked at how much dealerships jack up the price of oil. Live and learn.

[bob-o]

They acted surprised that I wouldn't pay it. They said everybody else who wants synthetic just pays it. I told them I would go home and recycle their oil then put in the Mobil 1 myself. It's not the money, it's the principle. No matter how much money is involved, I won't knowingly let people screw me if there is an alternative.

I only went to the dealer for warranty paperwork, I know if I had proof it was changed somewhere else it would be good enough for warranty but if I sell it I would rather have the record that the maintenance was done at the dealer.

[bigbird1]

Originally Posted by bob-o

Conventional oil is good for the break-in period because there needs to be some wear as parts seat in.

I have to say that's an old school myth.
How many engines today come from the factory with synthetic already installed? Any 4 cylinder Toyota or Honda.

[bob-o]

Originally Posted by bigbird1

I have to say that's an old school myth.
How many engines today come from the factory with synthetic already installed? Any 4 cylinder Toyota or Honda.

This is what Mobil 1 says. Note the fact that it cites "current engine technology" as being capable of making parts precisely enough that it is not necessary to break in an engine at all. This has certainly not always been the case, and I don't know if it is now on our cars. How do you seat a piston ring without some wear?


"One of the myths surrounding synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor."

Mobil 1 cites the decisions of engineers to put synthetic oil in some new cars as evidence nobody needs conventional. What about the decision of engineers who put conventional oil in new cars?

Toyota put conventional oil in my 2012 V6 at the factory. This might be just to save a few bucks or it might be that the 2GRFE needs some break in. The dealer would not put 0W-anything in my car. That tells me the engine tolerances are possibly not as tight as in the 4 cylinders. (or the dealer doesn't really know, they told me that it was better to run the conventional during break in)

[bigbird1]

Originally Posted by bob-o

Toyota put conventional oil in my 2012 V6 at the factory. This might be just to save a few bucks or it might be that the 2GRFE needs some break in. The dealer would not put 0W-anything in my car. That tells me the engine tolerances are possibly not as tight as in the 4 cylinders. (or the dealer doesn't really know, they told me that it was better to run the conventional during break in)

I'll go with Toyota saving a few bucks. The only reason I think Toyota and Honda are putting 0W-20 in their 4 cylinders is to up the fuel economy to help meet CAFE requirements.
This is the oil I will be using in my new RAV:

http://www.crossoil.com/lib/docs/pds...OSNSynGard.pdf

You can read all about Syngard here:

SynGard High VI's with a Type III Oil - Bob Is The Oil Guy

It's about $5/qt in Canada as opposed to the ridiculous prices Toyota dealers charge for their rebranded Mobil 1 0W-20.

[bob-o]

I have bought most of my cars used and work on them myself. The last time I dealt with a dealership was when I bought my Lancia in '83. Once the mechanic taught me the appropriate swear words in Italian to use when it acted up I had no further problems. I knew dealers charged high prices, but it seems to have gotten exponentially worse.

I guess because they don't make as much on the cars as they used to they are trying to make it on service. Charging such high prices will make customers like me go elsewhere, but I guess they count on there not being many who will do so. Next time I plan to bring my own oil and a 2.5 gallon can for them to fill with theirs. I'll use theirs in some other vehicle.

[RTexasF]

The Toyota 3.5l in the RAV uses 5W30 only in North America so I understand why the dealer wouldn't put 0W20 in your car. I don't agree with them but that's the way it is. Why does the exact same engine in a newer Camry or truck require 0W20 but you can't use it in a RAV4? Ridiculous! They don't carry a 0W30 at the dealership so that's not available. I'm pro synthetic but do not use it because we drive so little. Never once have I gotten anywhere close to 5K between changes so it's done every six months. Sometimes I have 200 miles on the oil & filter but out it comes to satisfy warranty. That same interval must be maintained during the extended warranty as well.

That engine takes 6 quarts of oil during an oil & filter change so don't dump 7.5 quarts in there. When it is brand new and bone dry it takes 7.5 to fill the completely empty sump. Other than a complete tear down that's the only time it will take 7.5 to fill it up.

Conventional oil is NOT required for break in. Far far too many European cars come with it right from the factory (and have for many years) as does the Corvette and many GM cars. The new requirement from GM for dexos oil is a synthetic blend and comes in it from the get-go. Same with Motorcraft synth blend in Ford products.

I have an acquaintance that is a Master Amsoil Dealer. He has bought a new car every two-three years for decades. While at the new car dealer he has them drain the factory oil and put in his choice of Amsoil which he supplies. This is prior to driving it home. Never a problem with break in or oil consumption and he drives the hell out of them, no mercy.

[Blogson]

Originally Posted by RTexasF

I have an acquaintance that is a Master Amsoil Dealer. He has bought a new car every two-three years for decades. While at the new car dealer he has them drain the factory oil and put in his choice of Amsoil which he supplies. This is prior to driving it home. Never a problem with break in or oil consumption and he drives the hell out of them, no mercy.

What is the advantage of using synthetic if he keeps his cars for only two or three years? As an Amsoil dealer presumably he gets a hefty discount!

Like you, I don't drive very much and have had oil and filter changes after driving only a few hundred miles, to keep the warranty in effect, and the oil is conventional. I put more miles on my motorcycle than on my RAV and use Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 synthetic in it - $20.41 per gallon at Walmart, and it meets the JASO-MA spec. It's actually much less expensive here than conventional motorcycle oil! As they say, go figure!