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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Flaw of Adaptive Cruise Control

Hello,

I read some posts here about Adaptive Cruise Control ACC, and it seems like there is a flaw in the design. When highway traffic in front of me slow to a complete stop, the ACC slow down the car to about 25 mph, then make a couple beep, and release the brakes!! So the car was slowing down with brakes, then suddenly brakes off and my car would just "Cruise" Slam into car in front of me.

I have to slam the brake to stop the car completely with about 6 feet distance still to spare.

1) Had I not slammed on the brake, would the brake safety / assist turn on? I doubt it.

2) In my engineering professional opinion, this is a very stupid design flaw. It should have continued to brake all the way to a complete stop, whenever it senses a collision object in front. It should be an easy programming job, but to skip it with half-baked solution with the need of human intervention at the last 2 seconds, it just reeks of pro-found stupidity, laziness, and lack of safety concern for customer.

Or am I missing a setting somewhere on my 2018 SE? Had I missed to pay premium for a feature?!

Damn Toyota Engineer.
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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 08:31 AM
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HOLY SH*T!!! For real...you actually had to manually drive your car? I would not hesitate to return it and ask for my money back. This is where this stuff goes...now people are complaining because the car doesn't stop itself. If you're too lazy to drive your own car perhaps the bus is what you're looking for. In all seriousness DO NOT trust these cars to do what you want it to do. Sooner or later someone will die and the driver is gonna "well the car didn't stop on it's own". These systems are completely dumbing down driving. Won't be long til Cyberdyne completely takes over.
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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sftong View Post
Hello,

I read some posts here about Adaptive Cruise Control ACC, and it seems like there is a flaw in the design. When highway traffic in front of me slow to a complete stop, the ACC slow down the car to about 25 mph, then make a couple beep, and release the brakes!! So the car was slowing down with brakes, then suddenly brakes off and my car would just "Cruise" Slam into car in front of me.

I have to slam the brake to stop the car completely with about 6 feet distance still to spare.

1) Had I not slammed on the brake, would the brake safety / assist turn on? I doubt it.

2) In my engineering professional opinion, this is a very stupid design flaw. It should have continued to brake all the way to a complete stop, whenever it senses a collision object in front. It should be an easy programming job, but to skip it with half-baked solution with the need of human intervention at the last 2 seconds, it just reeks of pro-found stupidity, laziness, and lack of safety concern for customer.

Or am I missing a setting somewhere on my 2018 SE? Had I missed to pay premium for a feature?!

Damn Toyota Engineer.
Read the owner's manual, your car doesn't have full speed ACC, it doesn't works below 25mph, there are many conditions which cancel ACC.

■Automatic cancelation of vehicle-to-vehicle distance control mode
Vehicle-to-vehicle distance control mode is automatically canceled in the following
situations:
●Actual vehicle speed falls below approximately 25 mph (40 km/h).
●VSC is activated.
●TRAC is activated for a period of time.
●When the VSC or TRAC system is turned off by pressing the VSC OFF
switch.
●The sensor cannot detect correctly because it is covered in some way.
●Pre-collision braking is activated.
If vehicle-to-vehicle distance control mode is automatically canceled for any
other reason, there may be a malfunction in the system. Contact your Toyota
dealer.

■Automatic cancelation of constant speed control mode
Constant speed control mode is automatically canceled in the following situations:
●Actual vehicle speed is more than approximately 10 mph (16 km/h) below
the set vehicle speed.
●Actual vehicle speed falls below approximately 25 mph (40 km/h).
●VSC is activated.
●TRAC is activated for a period of time.
●When the VSC or TRAC system is turned off by pressing the VSC OFF
switch.
●Pre-collision braking is activated.
If constant speed control mode is automatically canceled for any other reason,
there may be a malfunction in the system. Contact your Toyota dealer.
■Warning messages and buzzers for dynamic radar cruise control
Warning messages and buzzers are used to indicate a system malfunction or
to inform the driver of the need for caution while driving. If a warning message
is shown on the multi-information display, read the message and follow the
instructions..

2019 XLE Premium AWD
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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickdtoo View Post
Read the owner's manual, your car doesn't have full speed ACC, it doesn't works below 25mph, there are many conditions which cancel ACC.

■Automatic cancelation of vehicle-to-vehicle distance control mode
Vehicle-to-vehicle distance control mode is automatically canceled in the following
situations:
●Actual vehicle speed falls below approximately 25 mph (40 km/h).
●VSC is activated.
●TRAC is activated for a period of time.
●When the VSC or TRAC system is turned off by pressing the VSC OFF
switch.
●The sensor cannot detect correctly because it is covered in some way.
●Pre-collision braking is activated.
If vehicle-to-vehicle distance control mode is automatically canceled for any
other reason, there may be a malfunction in the system. Contact your Toyota
dealer.

■Automatic cancelation of constant speed control mode
Constant speed control mode is automatically canceled in the following situations:
●Actual vehicle speed is more than approximately 10 mph (16 km/h) below
the set vehicle speed.
●Actual vehicle speed falls below approximately 25 mph (40 km/h).
●VSC is activated.
●TRAC is activated for a period of time.
●When the VSC or TRAC system is turned off by pressing the VSC OFF
switch.
●Pre-collision braking is activated.
If constant speed control mode is automatically canceled for any other reason,
there may be a malfunction in the system. Contact your Toyota dealer.
■Warning messages and buzzers for dynamic radar cruise control
Warning messages and buzzers are used to indicate a system malfunction or
to inform the driver of the need for caution while driving. If a warning message
is shown on the multi-information display, read the message and follow the
instructions..

READ THE MANUAL?!?!?!?!? You mean that, not only can the car NOT drive itself, BUT now you expect owners to READ THE MANUAL. Add that to the facts posted in another topic about manually adjusted passenger seats and non-heated rear seats and it seems as if we are returning to the days of living in caves and eating raw meat.



Oh, the humanity!!!!!
D

Don't drive intoxicated.
Don't drive intexticated.
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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, I read about the <25 mph condition before, but being in real life experience of almost rear ending other car, makes me think this "<25 mph" is a bad design.

The system take a Brake off right when the distance is less than 10 feet.
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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 11:30 AM
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Sounds to me like the system did exactly what it was designed to do. The only problem here was a driver using the system in a way it is not intended to be used.

2016 Hybrid Limited with ATP.
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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rav4system3 View Post
For real...you actually had to manually drive your car? ... now people are complaining because the car doesn't stop itself. ... In all seriousness DO NOT trust these cars to do what you want it to do. .
If you are not smart, please refrain from having a strong opinion.

I don't ask a 2018 RAV4 to drive itself, because that's level 5 autonomy. But 2017 CRV, 2018 Ford Fusion all have ACC that brake the car to complete stop, and can re-accelerate once traffic resumes.

But to have the RAV4 system cancel the auto-braking right at 8-feet from collision after it has been braking for 50 feet, it reeks of STUPIDITY. Unfortunately, there are many strange people in the world that cannot see a defect as it is, and emotionally attached to a brand/company and defend the flaw. Just like CRV 2017/2018 oil dilution issue, many die-hard CRV owners would not blame Honda, even when it is proven to be systematic, and many owners almost got injury when car stall on highway.

And if we should NOT TRUST the car, then why are we paying for ABS, AirBag, Auto Braking, etc? Why are companies touting these SAFETY feature in marketing their cars?
Do you like your ABS Brake, or VSC work for first 2 seconds, and RAV4 completely shut it off in the last 2 seconds?

I politely suggest you to buy a 40 year old Toyota Corolla that is manual (no auto shift gear performed for you), no ABS, no AirBag, no electronics, etc. Enjoy!!
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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
Sounds to me like the system did exactly what it was designed to do. The only problem here was a driver using the system in a way it is not intended to be used.
Yes, I read about it. In engineering, we sometimes qualify that as "Flaw by Design".

Now if other manufacturers could not do it and RAV4 is the 1st ever, then Yes, we have to praise the Flaw as it is the only choice on the market. But hey, FYI, 2017 CRV, 2018 Ford Fusion all have ACC that can stop the car completely, and resume acceleration.

So Now, is this Flaw of RAV4 still worthy of praise? Auto cancel the Brake right at 8-feet from collision, after braking for 50 feet. Smart design eh?!
Do you like your ABS Brake, or VSC work for first 2 seconds, and RAV4 completely shut it off in the last 2 seconds?

Anyway, not a biggie. Just have to be more aware of this "flaw" when using it.
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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sftong View Post
If you are not smart, please refrain from having a strong opinion.

In my observations strength of opinion is inversely proportional to intelligence ...



Quote:
Originally Posted by sftong View Post
I don't ask a 2018 RAV4 to drive itself, because that's level 5 autonomy. But 2017 CRV, 2018 Ford Fusion all have ACC that brake the car to complete stop, and can re-accelerate once traffic resumes.

But to have the RAV4 system cancel the auto-braking right at 8-feet from collision after it has been braking for 50 feet, it reeks of STUPIDITY. Unfortunately, there are many strange people in the world that cannot see a defect as it is, and emotionally attached to a brand/company and defend the flaw. Just like CRV 2017/2018 oil dilution issue, many die-hard CRV owners would not blame Honda, even when it is proven to be systematic, and many owners almost got injury when car stall on highway.

And if we should NOT TRUST the car, then why are we paying for ABS, AirBag, Auto Braking, etc? Why are companies touting these SAFETY feature in marketing their cars?

I politely suggest you to buy a 40 year old Toyota Corolla that is manual (no auto shift gear performed for you), no ABS, no AirBag, no electronics, etc. Enjoy!!
It sounds like you're upset the car doesn't behave the way you expect it to but as was pointed out it behaves like it is defined in its manual. I don't think Adaptive Cruise is a safety feature, it is rather convenience. Demanding it to handle abrupt stops on a highway is a stretch and I wouldn't trust that feature even if it was listed so in the manual. One thing it to save my a... when I make a mistake and entirely different- to rely on it and withdraw completely from driving.
BTW, recently manufactured older but simpler car design is not such a bad idea: as long as it has injectors, individual ignition coils, single cat, disk brakes, independent suspension and AC I'd be happy. The rest of the features I can easily live without or complement with smart phone/aftermarket head unit. And yes, it needs at least 250 hp engine

2011 RAV4 V6 Limited
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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max5gen View Post

I don't think Adaptive Cruise is a safety feature, it is rather convenience. Demanding it to handle abrupt stops on a highway is a stretch
True, ACC is not a safety feature, but Auto-Braking or Brake Assist is. To assist braking for first 50 feet, and shut it off in last 8-feet is a dumb idea when the car is still moving forward at 25 mph.

For those who like to defend this "Flaw", I probably did not make it clearer : Do you like your ABS Brake, or VSC work for first 2 seconds, and RAV4 completely shut it off in the last 2 seconds?

How about Air Bag that expand only 3/4?

Enjoy the Flaw!
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