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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Entune: Folder Playback From Hell.

Folks,


Well, I'm not sure if this applies to all of the different Entune units available for the 2019 RAV4, but I've got the Entune 3.0 Premium, or whatever it's called. And, thank you Toyota, but now we can play back via folders! Now, WE have control over how we organize and sort our music, not some miserable MP3 tags that we have to fiddle with forever. But..............................


I actually have my folders named with alphanumeric characters, so they will show up higher or lower on the list of folders. Unlike folks who have had problems even getting USB drives to work (simply format your drive as FAT32, using some kind of utility if you've got something larger than 32 gigabytes, and so on), this is a bit more esoteric.


Anyway, so my list of folders looks something like this:


A01 - This
A02 - That
B01 - Some different This
B02 - Some different That
C01 - Yet another This
C02 - Yet another That


And so on. And everything was hunky-dory until I made some changes to some folders, and added some others. That's when I noticed the pure, dripping evil in Toyota's Entune system. I noticed that each folder had a number in front of it, like this:


1 A01 - This
2 A02 - That
3 B01 - Some different This
4 B02 - Some different That
5 C01 - Yet another This
6 C02 - Yet another That


So, let's say I added this folder:


A03 - A new folder


I would get this, right?


A01 - This
A02 - That
A03 - A new folder

B01 - Some different This
B02 - Some different That
C01 - Yet another This
C02 - Yet another That



How many of you are getting where this is going? Of course, THAT'S NOT WHAT I GOT. I got this, instead:


1 A01 - This
2 A02 - That
3 B01 - Some different This
4 B02 - Some different That
5 C01 - Yet another This
6 C02 - Yet another That
7 A03 - A new folder


IT ADDS ANY NEW OR UPDATED FOLDERS TO THE END OF THE FREAKING LIST!!!!! OH, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!


So, what does it do to save this information, and what does it take to clear it?


I'll bet that "deleting all personal data" would get the job done, but of course, that's just about the last thing on Earth I would want to do. So, I have tried stuff like this:


Unplug the drive, then plug it back in. Nope.


Unplug the drive, then plug in a new, blank one. Then plug the original back in. Nope.


Unplug the drive, then plug in a new one, with a folder of songs on it. Then plug the original back in. Nope.


Change the volume label of the original drive, then plug it back in. Nope.


Oh, I've looked on the drive itself, including going to the root/partition level, to see if there's some file, hidden or not, on the drive where the system might be saving the data. Nope.


So far, I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO CLEAR THE DAMN SYSTEM'S RE-NUMBERING OF MY FOLDERS.


If you've made it this far with me, do you have any ideas? I'm considering reformatting the drive and copying everything back onto it, but, given that it's not even noticing the volume label change, I have doubts that would work. I've actually got my folders under a parent folder on the drive, and I'll probably try moving them to the root directory (not sure how many folders and/or files will live there, though), perhaps try moving them to folders a few levels down, and so on.


But, FOR CRYING OUT FREAKING LOUD!! How much work do we have to go through to get around some of the most stupid, insane "programming" ever devised by evil, sick minds? This is insane. "Insanity," defined.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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OK, I finally figured out something that worked. Moving everything into a different folder -- or, as it was in my case, moving it out of a folder and into the root directory -- got the system to do what I suppose we could call a "full refresh," and re-assign its numbers to the folders, in actual folder alphanumeric order. Obviously, it did some kind of "re-reading" when I added new folders, and changed the contents of a folder, but it didn't do a "full refresh." I'll keep on working to figure out what are the quickest and easiest ways to get the system to do a full refresh, but at least this one worked.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 10:08 PM
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UGH...yes this is annoying...but I can provide some insight...I THINK...

My belief is that the system ISN'T using the file name to sort, but rather the inode number (may not specifically be "inode", I'm used to Unix/Linux...Windows and/or FAT32 may use a different identifier and call it something else?; but regardless, it's basically a unique numerical identifier on the disk that's contained in file's metadata)...so basically it's sorting files and directories based on the order they were written to the drive and NOT the name of the file.

This was frustrating for me as I had a USB drive full of live recordings and they were playing all out of order.

I solved it by reformatting my USB stick and then re-copying everything making sure to do it in the order I wanted it sorted. Pain in the @#$.

When you moved your folders, you essentially did the same thing, giving the files and folders a new inode number and thus re-sorting them.

As far as I can tell, it's NOT based on the head unit "saving" a preference or there being a cache to clear...it's just using a very stupid method to sort the files.

Bottom line, assuming I'm correct in my theory here, any files you add to an existing drive should always appear the the end of the files list for whichever directory
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by thoots View Post
OK, I finally figured out something that worked. Moving everything into a different folder -- or, as it was in my case, moving it out of a folder and into the root directory -- got the system to do what I suppose we could call a "full refresh," and re-assign its numbers to the folders, in actual folder alphanumeric order. Obviously, it did some kind of "re-reading" when I added new folders, and changed the contents of a folder, but it didn't do a "full refresh." I'll keep on working to figure out what are the quickest and easiest ways to get the system to do a full refresh, but at least this one worked.

It shows them in the order they are written inside FAT32 internal 'file allocation table', completely ignoring any order you might like. I expect order of songs inside the folders would behave the same way.


There's free utility DriveSort.exe available for Windows that allows you to rearrange them on a PC and then it plays back in the order you specified in that utility. This is not specific to Entune, I saw this on may be 5 cars / makers combinations capable of USB playback.


Basically, they don't bother to 'sort' list of folders/files and simply directly show how they are written internally. PCs hide this detail from us and go extra step.

2011 RAV4 V6 Limited
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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All I can add at this point is that there seemed to be something different between whatever it did to find the new folder I added, and the folders I changed -- which moved them to the end of my list of folders, which I guess is around 80 folders now. I've got around 14 gigabytes on the drive, so far. As compared to when I moved those folders from under one folder (intriguingly named "MP3") to the root directory. After that, it was a long read -- a few minutes -- and then everything was back in alphanumeric order. I actually left the now-empty "MP3" folder on the drive, and I figure I'll just move the folders in and out of that folder, as I update things.


"Updating" will be mainly two things: Adding new folders, and renaming things so that I might have some actually useful information on the audio unit and the MID displays. I usually name my songs like this:


Artist Name - Album Name - Track Number - Song Title


Of course, with the first two items being the same for an album, the track number is what puts things in order, for the songs in that folder.


Looking at the head unit, the top item appears to be that file name, so guess what? All I usually see is the Artist Name.


The next item appears to be the Artist Name, presumably taken from an MP3 tag. Well, that's the second time I've got the Artist Name.


Then, the final item appears to be the folder title, and, of course, I have my folders named like this:


Artist Name - Album Name


So, all I've got is the dang Artist Name, over and over again!!


And thus, what I started doing, was just removing the Artist Name - Album Name from the file names, resulting in this:


01 - First Song Title

02 - Second Song Title


And so on. And that, at least, lets me see the song name in the displays in the car. So, that's the updating that I've been doing.


I started playing with the MP3 tags, since I had some wonky tag information, but now I realize that it's mostly just getting the song title as the file name, that will get me what I want. I suppose I'll try changing the Artist Name tag to the Album Name, and while that would be wonky, if that would actually get me the song title, album title, and artist name on the screen, that would be about three times better than what I've been getting, previously.


At any rate, that's what I've been up to. I could go into the nonsense I did with MP3 tags in order to get some sense from my 2015 Corolla system, which would forget whatever album the current song would be in, and would just grab the next song, alphabetically, when you got back into the car and started the engine. This is a peach, compared to that!

2019 RAV4 Limited AWD with Entune 3.0 Premium and Advanced Technology package.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thoots View Post
All I can add at this point is that there seemed to be something different between whatever it did to find the new folder I added, and the folders I changed -- which moved them to the end of my list of folders, which I guess is around 80 folders now. I've got around 14 gigabytes on the drive, so far. As compared to when I moved those folders from under one folder (intriguingly named "MP3") to the root directory. After that, it was a long read -- a few minutes -- and then everything was back in alphanumeric order. I actually left the now-empty "MP3" folder on the drive, and I figure I'll just move the folders in and out of that folder, as I update things.


"Updating" will be mainly two things: Adding new folders, and renaming things so that I might have some actually useful information on the audio unit and the MID displays. I usually name my songs like this:


Artist Name - Album Name - Track Number - Song Title


Of course, with the first two items being the same for an album, the track number is what puts things in order, for the songs in that folder.


Looking at the head unit, the top item appears to be that file name, so guess what? All I usually see is the Artist Name.


The next item appears to be the Artist Name, presumably taken from an MP3 tag. Well, that's the second time I've got the Artist Name.


Then, the final item appears to be the folder title, and, of course, I have my folders named like this:


Artist Name - Album Name


So, all I've got is the dang Artist Name, over and over again!!


And thus, what I started doing, was just removing the Artist Name - Album Name from the file names, resulting in this:


01 - First Song Title

02 - Second Song Title


And so on. And that, at least, lets me see the song name in the displays in the car. So, that's the updating that I've been doing.


I started playing with the MP3 tags, since I had some wonky tag information, but now I realize that it's mostly just getting the song title as the file name, that will get me what I want. I suppose I'll try changing the Artist Name tag to the Album Name, and while that would be wonky, if that would actually get me the song title, album title, and artist name on the screen, that would be about three times better than what I've been getting, previously.


At any rate, that's what I've been up to. I could go into the nonsense I did with MP3 tags in order to get some sense from my 2015 Corolla system, which would forget whatever album the current song would be in, and would just grab the next song, alphabetically, when you got back into the car and started the engine. This is a peach, compared to that!

Check out that utility- you can arrange them in any order you like. Entune does not sort anything, it just reads how it is on the drive. When you get beyond 1 Gb of music it becomes cumbersome to edit all that on the PC and then replace the whole thing from scratch. Utility updates FAT right on the drive, the content remains where it is, it works much faster overall.

2011 RAV4 V6 Limited
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by max5gen View Post
Check out that utility- you can arrange them in any order you like. Entune does not sort anything, it just reads how it is on the drive. When you get beyond 1 Gb of music it becomes cumbersome to edit all that on the PC and then replace the whole thing from scratch. Utility updates FAT right on the drive, the content remains where it is, it works much faster overall.

Yes, I'll definitely check it out. But I still intend to spend some quality time renaming things -- as I described above -- to get some useful information to display on the car's screens. My "car drive" has a subset of stuff from my overall music collection, so I have no worries with messing around with "whatever works" to optimize it for use in the car.

2019 RAV4 Limited AWD with Entune 3.0 Premium and Advanced Technology package.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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One more quick update:


Indeed, I tried filling the "Artist Name" tag with the "Album Title" information in one folder, and it now shows the Album Title in the second field in the head unit display. So, that now looks like this:


Field 1 - Song Title: 01 Song Title (actual file name)

Field 2 - Album Title: Album Title (as entered into the MP3 "Artist" tag)

Field 3 - Folder Name: A01 Folder Name (actual folder name)



That works for me. And, after changing the contents of one folder, I moved all of my folders back into the "MP3" folder on my drive, and plugged it into my RAV4. Which then did a "full read," and everything is in proper order. Yes, a bit of "working around" things to make them work for the new vehicle, but this will work for me.

2019 RAV4 Limited AWD with Entune 3.0 Premium and Advanced Technology package.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by thoots View Post
One more quick update:


Indeed, I tried filling the "Artist Name" tag with the "Album Title" information in one folder, and it now shows the Album Title in the second field in the head unit display. So, that now looks like this:


Field 1 - Song Title: 01 Song Title (actual file name)

Field 2 - Album Title: Album Title (as entered into the MP3 "Artist" tag)

Field 3 - Folder Name: A01 Folder Name (actual folder name)



That works for me. And, after changing the contents of one folder, I moved all of my folders back into the "MP3" folder on my drive, and plugged it into my RAV4. Which then did a "full read," and everything is in proper order. Yes, a bit of "working around" things to make them work for the new vehicle, but this will work for me.

The tags don't affect the order but the information present later on the head unit screen, still useful nonetheless. My own problem with the order was trying to play Pink Floyd The Wall albums as separate songs with their own titles. On those albums the songs flow one into another without pauses so if the order is right you'd hear a click at the most but if it is wrong the experience is not that great . Using that utility I was able to correct that so next-previous buttons and simple continuous playback started to work correctly.

2011 RAV4 V6 Limited
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I think I'm mostly good to go now. I can envision single-artist folders, for which the "switch the artist name tag to the album title" strategy I mentioned above will work. I have other folders with multiple artists, where the albums don't matter at all, and then I'll use the appropriate artist information for those. A lot of the work I'll want to do will be to "undo" the damage I did for the Corolla head unit, wherein every tag was the folder/album name, in an effort to keep the system from moving out of the album when it would go from the song that was playing when you started the car, to the next song. So, I'll either be renaming things, or digging out the original tracks that still have the proper MP3 tags, and using those. I'll certainly check out that utility, and see what it might be able to do to make the job easier.

2019 RAV4 Limited AWD with Entune 3.0 Premium and Advanced Technology package.
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