How new is the 'new' 2.5 engine? - Page 3 - Toyota RAV4 Forums
4.5 Mechanical Intakes, Exhaust, Tune-ups, 4x4 system, Suspension, Brakes, etc.

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 07:26 PM
Member
Country: Jimrayoden's Flag is: United States
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: SoCal
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Reliability of A25

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbw View Post
I keep hearing 'new' 2.5 engine in the 2019 RAV4. Is it really a new engine or is it the same 2.5 with some tweaks? Wondering if it's tried and true or really is new with possible unknown problems.
Thanks for any info.
Toyota manufactured about 340,000 Camry (gas and hybrid) vehicles with the A25A-FKS/FXS engines (same as in the 2019 Rav4) in North America in 2017/18 for the 2018 Camry. The best large survey of reliability of those engines is likely in Consumer Reports, which indicates the "Engine Major" and "Engine Minor" categories for these engines to be at the highest reliability (solid green) rating in calendar 2018. It's impossible to know how many owners of the 2018 Camry submitted their ratings to Consumer Reports, but they do state that over 500,000 vehicles (all manufacturers, all models) are represented in their reliability records. Draw your own conclusions, but the CR ratings seem to indicate good reliability for these engines at least in year one of the Camry models with these new engines. Full disclosure: I currently drive a 2014 Honda CRV.
Jimrayoden is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
wbw
Member
Country: wbw's Flag is: United States
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: York Pa.
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimrayoden View Post
…….. but the CR ratings seem to indicate good reliability for these engines at least in year one of the Camry models with these new engines.
Right. For me the take away here is 'year one'. It's way too early to tell if there will be reliability problems down the road, in my opinion. The two articles linked by Quickdtoo paint a different picture of the future reliability. Who know if they're correct? We'll see, down the road.
wbw is offline  
post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 04:10 PM
Member
Country: Jimrayoden's Flag is: United States
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: SoCal
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Current/future reliability of new engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbw View Post
Right. For me the take away here is 'year one'. It's way too early to tell if there will be reliability problems down the road, in my opinion. The two articles linked by Quickdtoo paint a different picture of the future reliability. Who know if they're correct? We'll see, down the road.
Yes, year one of CR stats is just an indication that there are no obvious issues popping up on these 300k plus engines...I’m not an expert in engine development, but since Toyota built these to go in two very important vehicles (Camry, Rav4) in the Toyota lineup, I am pretty sure there were years of development done to assure not only good efficiency but reliability. It’s impossible to know what the future holds, so as you indicated only time will tell...and while Quikdtoo posted links to a couple of engine reviews, it didnt deter him from becoming a new owner of the 2019 Rav4.
Jimrayoden is offline  
 
post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 06:07 PM
Member
Country: Jimrayoden's Flag is: United States
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: SoCal
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Questionable conclusion on engine reliability

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbw View Post
Thanks for the links, Quickdtoo.
https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/18..._df_r4_eng.htm . The conclusions on engine reliability in the report (see preceding hyperlink), seems somewhat suspect/questionable:

“Practice - forecast:
The renowned reliability of Toyota engines is built entirely on simple solutions, archaic designs and proven technologies. Departure from these rules in most cases leads to sad results.”

I guess the author is unaware of Toyota’s motorsports successes over the years in Indycar (e.g. 2003 Indy 500 winner, Manufacturers Championship), endurance racing (2nd at 24 hours of Le Mans in 1992), and a Le Mans victory in 2018 in a Toyota TS050 Hybrid! Toyota has also competed with various levels of success in Formula One and Nascar.

Perhaps these motorsports victories were all won using “simple solutions (and) archaic designs”? “Sad”!
Jimrayoden is offline  
post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 06:54 PM
Advanced Member
Country: Quickdtoo's Flag is: United States
 
Quickdtoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 4,558
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1008 Post(s)
Thanks: 128
Thanked 1,021 Times in 855 Posts
Garage
Be aware that the https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/18..._df_r4_eng.htm is a translated page, original is Russian, and there are a lot of statements that don't make sense throughout the paper, likely due to translation, so the conclusion could also be suspect.

2019 XLE Premium AWD
Quickdtoo is offline  
post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 07:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 20 Posts
It’s easy to say that simple is reliable, but if we didn’t continue to develop new technologies, we wouldn’t be looking at an engine even remotely as powerful or efficient as this new 2.5L is.
Exit is offline  
post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 07:44 PM
Member
Country: Jimrayoden's Flag is: United States
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: SoCal
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
More on engine reliability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickdtoo View Post
Be aware that the https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/18..._df_r4_eng.htm is a translated page, original is Russian, and there are a lot of statements that don't make sense throughout the paper, likely due to translation, so the conclusion could also be suspect.
Yeah, I was also going to mention the obvious “English-challenged” nature of the commentary in the paper... also the further jump to conclusions about reliability seems to be based on the implementation of (unspecified) “improvements” to the engines?:

“ A25A look like a successor to very successful 2AR-FE, but after evaluating of the used solutions and "improvements" it can be guaranteed - the new engine will not be so reliable and trouble-free”.
Jimrayoden is offline  
post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old Today, 05:54 AM
Junior Member
Country: Itzed's Flag is: United States
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This discussion is very interesting to me as I find the information out there to be very scarce and sometimes conflicting. Our 2016 is coming off lease and I really like the design of the new RAV4 and have plans to see the dealer on Saturday and lease a new one, with the long term intent to probably buy it after year three. Our dealer sales person says the new one has basically the same engine as what’s in the 2016, but this thread seems to indicate it doesn’t. I even asked specifically about DI and he said it doesn’t have that. The Toyota website is severely lacking in technical details, and none of the reviews I’ve seen on youtube really get into the details of the engine either. My son worked at a Honda dealership, and I own a GTI, so I am familiar with some DI issues other brands have. I am concerned about longevity and wonder if I am better off keeping our 2016?
Itzed is offline  
post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old Today, 07:27 AM
Member
Country: XA50_Trail's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 26 Times in 23 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itzed View Post
This discussion is very interesting to me as I find the information out there to be very scarce and sometimes conflicting. Our 2016 is coming off lease and I really like the design of the new RAV4 and have plans to see the dealer on Saturday and lease a new one, with the long term intent to probably buy it after year three. Our dealer sales person says the new one has basically the same engine as what’s in the 2016, but this thread seems to indicate it doesn’t. I even asked specifically about DI and he said it doesn’t have that. The Toyota website is severely lacking in technical details, and none of the reviews I’ve seen on youtube really get into the details of the engine either. My son worked at a Honda dealership, and I own a GTI, so I am familiar with some DI issues other brands have. I am concerned about longevity and wonder if I am better off keeping our 2016?
I wouldn’t be concerned with DI issues at all.

The D4S system in the Toyota engine has the best of both worlds really, it has direct fuel injection and port fuel injection. With port injection, it will prevent the carbon buildup that is notorious in pure DI engines. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...ect-injection/
XA50_Trail is offline  
post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old Today, 07:44 AM
Advanced Member
Country: Dr. Dyno's Flag is: United States
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eastern CT
Posts: 8,810
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1210 Post(s)
Thanks: 629
Thanked 1,014 Times in 892 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itzed View Post
... Our dealer sales person says the new one has basically the same engine as what’s in the 2016, but this thread seems to indicate it doesn’t. I even asked specifically about DI and he said it doesn’t have that.
Since when do you trust anything a sales person says? Most are technically clueless. Their only job is to sell. And say whatever they need to, with a smile of course, to do that.

Fred
2006 RAV4 V6 4WD Barcelona Red Limited - wife's
2018 Accord Hybrid, Blue Pearl - Dr. Dyno's - 47/47 mpg
2003 Odyssey V6 - handy people & cargo mover
1999 F-250 4X4 Diesel - snow plow, Bully Dog chip
2003 F-250 4X4 - eventual replacement for the '99
2001 F-250 4X4 Diesel - truck camper, TS chip, 20' bike/trike dyno trailer
2004 Suzuki DRZ-400S Dual Sport
1968 Volvo 1800S

It's the pedal (or the handgrip) on the right!!


"If you really believe you get what you pay for there's no such thing as a good deal."
Dr. Dyno is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply




Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome