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Will 2019 RAV4 have engine auto start/stop?

61K views 92 replies 29 participants last post by  Quickdtoo 
#1 ·
I was about to trade in my 16 RAV4 to a 19 Forester and found out:

The 2019 Subaru Forester and Outback will have engine auto start / stop option and you cannot permanently disable it. It will make a negative deal breaker.
You can temporary disable it until next start.
I hope the 2019 RAV4 will not come with auto start / stop.
Imagine you battery is about to die and you get stuck in cold winter in the busy intersection or in the middle of nowhere?
Maybe in Florida is not a big deal, but in Alaska in -40F, you don't want to turn off the engine.


Also I was told you cannot permanently disable EyeSight and there is a problem to enter car wash.
Never had entering car wash in my 16 RAV4
 
#2 ·
Seems like more and more cars are getting the auto-start/stop. My Ford Escape from a couple years ago had it. And you also couldn't permanently disable it. But it was easy enough to shut off. One button to click right under the radio. Or if you put the vehicle into sport shift it would disable it. Needless to say, I always drove around with sport shift.
 
#4 ·
Yes. Hopefully the 2019 RAV will not have start/stop. The reason many new vehicles have start/stop is to game the EPA CAFE requirements, at the owners expense. Start/stop for gas powered vehicles is of dubious net value from a cost benefit perspective.

In any case, here’s hoping.

EJ


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#3 ·
All must have a disable button but you need to activate it each time you start the car. No biggie, it's just like putting on seatbelts....you get used to doing it every time.

I don't know what Eyesight is so no comment there.
 
#5 ·

Attachments

#6 ·
Thanks for going to the trouble of posting relevant 2019 Subaru manual sections. I currently drive a 2015 Subaru Forester, and it’s comical to see the current manual is just as hard to understand as mine is. It might as well be written in Japanese.

As should be obvious, I consider start/stop systems in a gas vehicle to provide far more constant annoyance to the driver than any gas savings might be worth.

EJ




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#9 ·
I was about to trade in my 16 RAV4 to a 19 Forester and found out:

Imagine you battery is about to die and you get stuck in cold winter in the busy intersection or in the middle of nowhere?
Maybe in Florida is not a big deal, but in Alaska in -40F, you don't want to turn off the engine.
Don't know if the RAV will have it but I doubt you need to worry about battery reserve. Although my '16 obviously doesn't have it, I do have it in another vehicle, a 2017 Alfa Romeo, and there is a long list of conditions (about 10) under which it will choose not to function. These include the fact that it does some type of battery test and will not cycle if the battery is less than pristine, if in Alaska, it will not function unless the interior cabin is up to the set temp on the HVAC system, and then will restart if it drops more than a couple degrees. Other interesting areas include it not functioning on uphill grades so there are no issues with roll back when you let off the brake.

Having said that, I still bypass it most times in the Alfa and am not a fan, but I understand its an issue of modern politically correct times. Getting used to shutting it off is no different than the habit of hitting the RAV4's sport button every time I drive it. If I had my choice I'd prefer a permanent defeat setting, but don't overthink it too much. Its not as much of a deal killer as it seems on the surface.
 
#10 ·
Nothing “politically correct” about it. Vehicles have to meet mileage standards and the companies choose how they get there.

Many have implemented start/stop because it gives them a 1-2 mpg boost in the EPA test conditions. They don’t care how obnoxious it is to the consumer or whether it really provides net savings.

It’s corporate irresponsibility at its worst.

EJ


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#15 ·
I belong to and read several different car-brand forums (ToyotaNation, Subaru, Volvo, Porsche, VW, Tesla) to keep up on cars that I own plus cars that I'm interested in. The auto-start/stop thread is found in all the forums, and there's a lot of opposition to the feature in cars that aren't hybrids or EVs, and it makes no sense for manufacturers to not allow a permanent disable -- just as with the annoying auto-door-locking feature when a vehicle starts to move. Some manufacturers (Porsche, for one) do allow both of these to be disabled permanently in a menu. Others like Volvo no longer allow this, and it's two big reasons why I walked away from almost buying a 2018 Volvo earlier this year.



And, yes, I understand that the 2019 Rav4 will have auto-start/stop and auto-door-locking when the car starts to move; I do not know if Toyota will allow permanent disabling of these features, which could again be a reason for not buying one for us if the driver isn't given those options. No reason to not be given the options -- there is no USA federal mandate for either. Porsche wouldn't allow them to be turned off and sold in the USA if there was any prohibition. The manufacturers need to stop treating drivers like children and let them have more power to do as they wish with their cars.
 
#16 ·
There is a huge reason that Toyota and the majority of other car makers do not provide a simple on/off switch for the start/stop systems in ICE vehicles. It’s because if they do, there is a partial “penalty” against whatever additional fuel savings the system is supposed to provide. Then their published EPA mileage rating is reduced so most are happy to make us turn the blasted things off every time the engine is started.

This is “gaming the game”, as start/stop systems in ICE vehicles don’t save much fuel, if at all, and the added cost of the system itself plus additional maintenance cost makes any savings hard to find. But, the makers learn how to construct and program the system to fit the EPA test so as to gain 1 mpg or so, which adds up for them. The owner then gets the aggravation of having to turn off something you didn’t want to begin with but paid for anyway.

There is also a sort of “herd mentality” at work regarding alleged “fuel saving” but obnoxious to the driver engineering. For example, it took Nissan to pioneer adopting CVTs for nearly all of their vehicles, even though most drivers detest them, for others to follow. Likewise start/stop.

Corporate greed and hypocrisy at its finest.


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#17 ·
Its flat out silly that someone would suggest start/stop systems dont save much fuel. The next time you are sitting a redlight count how many cars are around you, across from you and also perpendicular to you waiting for their turn to go. Count how many seconds or even minutes you are waiting at that light, simply to cross that intersection. Now imagine how many millions of other people are doing the exact same thing all day and all night long across the entire globe.

The goal of S/S isn't to save an extra 1mpg on your 12mile drive to Costco. The goal is to stop millions of cars from needlessly idling for several minutes every day, which equates to several hours or even days over the course of the year. Cars that are idling filling the environment with tons of unnecessary emissions and flat out wasting fuel as the engine simply doesnt need to be running.. to operate electronic controls and conveniences or run the HVAC system while the vehicle is sitting at a complete stop.

I applaud the manufacturers for making the feature only temporary defeat-able with a switch. Because enabling it every time is exactly the motivation that drivers need to change their behavior that adds up to a ton of waste. I too thought the feature would be annoying having first used it on my wife's 2018 VW Atlas. After about a week I didn't even notice the vehicle was turning off at stoplights, because as soon as you release the slightest amount of pressure on the brake pedal the engine restarts and power is available before you ever have time to step on the gas pedal to accelerate. For those that find it too much trouble to slightly lift pressure off the brake then feel free to turn it off every time you drive.

This video explains it better than I ever could.

https://youtu.be/dFImHhNwbJo
 
#19 ·
They don’t save much fuel, and chances are they certainly don’t save money for the owner. The theoretical savings of about 1 mpg is calculated on the EPA test system, not the real world. There are many circumstances under which the system will not deploy. Look in your owners manual to see the list, which probably includes high temperatures when the AC is running at a stop light.
If you yourself want such a system, which you say you do, fine, buy one. Much better results can be achieved by other, non intrusive methods such as low rolling resistance tires, weight reduction, and improved aerodynamics. For that matter, plug ins or hybrids save a lot more, and folks buy them, if they want them. And they should be able to do so. Likewise, one can purchase a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle to start. Or take public transportation, or walk. All of these can save more fuel than start stop.
It’s a lousy way to get 1 mpg, at best.
You, for example, could have purchased a Prius plug in or hybrid instead of that Atlas. That would have saved fuel, reduced emissions, and money. Far more of each than a start/stop system would do in your Atlas. Why didn’t you? Your choice, which should be yours to make.

And, if you google start/stop which you obviously did to paste in the utube video you will find a ton of citations from automotive experts supporting my point of view.


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#20 ·
You are still stuck on the view point that only your car matters. That your vehicle saving a "lousy 1mpg" doesnt matter. Using your own logic if your vehicle saves 1mpg using S/S.. Have you thought for a second that there are 263million vehicles in America. How much fuel/emissions would be saved if all 263million of those vehicles could save just 1mpg. Would it matter then? What about the 1billion vehicles on the road worldwide? 1billion vehicles all saving 1mpg still wouldn't matter?

And who says that S/S is the only way to save fuel/emissions. EVs, Hybrids, smaller engines, turbo engines, public transportation, etc are all ADDITIONAL ways to save fuel. People like you, who cant see the big picture is EXACTLY why S/S is now mandatory and undefeatable on the vast majority of new cars. Because when you leave it up to a single individual to make a difference.. people tend to make choices that only immediately benefit themselves. Thanks to organizations like the EPA constantly pushing manufacturers to save fuel and reduce emissions we have vehicles that are capable of 0-60mph in 3.8 seconds and can still hit 30mpg on the highway like the Corvette Stingray. Which also has mandatory S/S :) I hope this trend continues!
 
#23 ·
I'm sure there are different variations of the technology. My Honda has this and I don't like how the a/c compressor turns off at stop. At stop lights, if you don't bypass it, you get either foggy windows or hot air depending on the season.
 
#30 ·
The federal government sets CAFE standards and the manufacturers figure out how to meet them. You might benefit in understanding how the regulatory system works.

Start/stop isn’t required by the feds or anyone else. The overall impact of our individual and collective carbon footprints is the issue, not a single
Item. I personally find start stop in a ICE vehicle to be so obnoxious that I won’t use it. However, I drive a fuel efficient vehicle that gets great mileage without start stop. That’s one way how I save fuel and lessen air pollution.

My next vehicle will be a hybrid or an EV, but I won’t use start stop as currently placed on a ICE vehicle.
 
#31 ·
Gosh Eddie, that sounds a lot like what I said earlier about individuals not setting policies based on their convenience. Gosh Eddie, you must know a whole lot more than the rest of us. Gosh Eddie, it almost seems as if engine start stop helps to reduce our collective footprint.

Gosh Eddie.
 
#35 ·
Every S/S system I've seen has a defeat button. Its practically necessary if you need to keep the car running for emergency purposes.

I think what people here are complaining about is that the on/off setting isn't permanent. It resets itself "on" every new drive.. aka there is no way to turn it off once and be done with it forever.
 
#36 ·
I think the point is that many people who drive ICE-only vehicles do not want their engines turning off and on often when in stop-and-go traffic. All car manufacturers who put auto-start/stop functions in their vehicles should permit the driver to "permanently" disable the feature with a button that keeps auto-start/stop OFF until the driver switches it back on again; it should remain off when the ignition is turned off and then turned on again later.


Hybrids naturally have auto-start/stop, but that's ok because such vehicles usually start from stop in all-electric mode (i.e., the engine doesn't come on right away). It's the ICE coming on immediately after being stopped (whether at a traffic light, stop sign, or a car stopping in front of us) every single time that bothers many people, including me. Yes, put the feature in vehicles to help reduce emissions, and many people will never disable it; but let those of us who want to turn it off turn it off.
 
#38 ·
If you really want to disable it on VW, the proper way is use same VCDS hardware interface & software that the VW tech's use to give you full access to the vehicles computer. From there you can access a ton of menu functions that are not available on the OEM system. Things like permanently disabling S/S with the flip of a button (same for reenabling it). You can also unlock several features & capabilities that are reserved for more premium vehicles.. so you can buy a VW SE model and unlock features/capabilities that are reserved fro the SEL & Premium models.

The hardware is expensive so not many people want to straight out buy it, but there are many dedicated VW forums, Facebook groups, etc where someone has bought the interface and will rent it with others for a small fee. I rented one for a weekend for $25. I enabled auto-high beams, auto-lane centering assist, compass, adjust menu's while the vehicle is moving.. and a few other features on my wife's VW Atlas before sending it back to the owner.

Here is great to place to start: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8694065-Ross-Tech-VCDS-support-and-DIY-for-the-Atlas
 
#39 ·
I canceling my order.
The 2019 Toyota RAV4 will have the Auto Stop Start (ASS) system regarding the owner manual. You cannot permanently disable it same as on 2019 Forester.
I am disappointed about Toyota lying to us with demo cars supplied to reviewers without the ASS button.
 
#41 ·
If you actually read, the manual and don't just skip to page 348, like you are telling everyone else to do you will see it clearly states (If equipped page 347). I think you may be jumping to conclusions here with the whole ASS thing.
I would think the hybrid rav4 will have it and doubt very much that the gas version will but who knows only time will tell.
I am not sure why you think Toyota would try to hide this from us.
 
#42 ·
They're pre-production prototypes that may or may not have features that production vehicles will have, there's a notice on the passenger sun visor of the test vehicles that state such. The Rav4 HV already has auto stop/start, they've never had a button specifically to control it, but it's also not anything like a gas model stop/start since the ICE doesn't have to start to move the vehicle if light throttle application is used, it just uses the EV traction motor(s) to move. Even when it does start it's hardly noticeable, a barely perceptible shake and no noise, it would be nice if the gas model stop/start works as seamlessly.

https://youtu.be/wTjEADkt3_c?t=596
 
#43 ·
Soon enough everyone will know for sure whether the RAV ICE models will have ASS. My guess is they will. And, as has been recommended, one can turn it off any time you want to, just not permanently.

The hybrid is obviously far different.

It’s a mistake to believe, IMO, that Toyota was trying to “fool” anyone. They could care less, as a large corporation, about the need to fool people individually. Their concern is to boost the RAV EPA mpg figures, and they are going to get that done. It doesn’t matter to them whether it actually improves mpg or is just a constant PITA, because most owners are so clueless they won’t even know what it is.

It’s entirely possible that the RAV ICE version will be a “good” one, so lag times will be really minor and it won’t clang and clank like most of them do. One can hope.

Last week as I was waiting to cross an intersection on foot I noticed a seemingly brand new, BMW 5 series waiting for the light. The motor was off. As the light changed, the driver took his foot off the brake and that beautiful engine ASS clanked to life like a $999 2009 Kia. Clang, clack, bang, lurch. It’s amazing what people will put up with and spend $75,000, and what a corporation will do to us to make their money.


EJ


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#45 ·
I am hoping they don't have it, I have read everything I can on Toyotas site and don't believe it will be on the gas only engines.
I might reconsider my order also and hopefully get my down payment back on the one I have ordered if this is true.
If they did add ASS I think it would be mentioned somewhere in the specs and packages and also be on the vehicles that they let the reviewers drive.
I see no mention of it anywhere, besides the owner manual online which is for all version of the rav.
 
#46 ·
The currently published 2019 owner's manual only covers the gas models, the 4.4 HV had its own dedicated manual, I'd expect the 2019 to be the same. The reviewer's 2019 models were pre-production prototypes, they weren't production models, see the Alex on Autos video at about 10:00, there's a notice on the passenger visor to that effect.

 
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