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post #21 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 05:23 PM
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Noticed the jerks at rolling stop (when accelerating without coming to a complete stop) in morning when doing kids to school, will try to see if it's a pattern.

Can someone explain what's hard-shifting when stopping? Thx
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post #22 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 08:50 PM
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Although I canít explain all of whatís happening with your RAV, maybe I can shed some light on the erratic transmission behaviour.

VW uses an Aisin 6-speed transmission in their Golf and Jetta cars since 2011. Upon release it was showing strange behaviour at stops and resuming motion. It was enough that it kept us from buying a Jetta back then, and was noted by Car and Driver during their full tests and long term tests if the day. Turns out as a fuel saving measure the ECU was programmed to completely disengage the torque converter during stops, so the engine was not under load at a stop. Unfortunately that fuel economy measure turned off a lot of people and eventually an ECU flash was released for anyone complaining about this. It had been greatly reduced by the 2017 year when we got out Golf, so we took the plunge. Having said that, it still catches me when parking, as thereís a hesitation then a grab when you release the brake. If Iíve been driving our 4-speed RAV for a long time, the VW still catches me off guard a bit. The VW has a sport setting in the transmission which keeps the converter engaged in traditional behaviour, making it feel more conventional. The cause is likely similar for the RAV.

If enough owners come forward to Toyota corporate, they will eventually realize that the behaviour is too unusual and needs a flash update.

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post #23 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Abhishek View Post
Noticed the jerks at rolling stop (when accelerating without coming to a complete stop) in morning when doing kids to school, will try to see if it's a pattern.

Can someone explain what's hard-shifting when stopping? Thx
When coming to a stop, at around 3-4 mph, there is a pronounced thump, or bump that emanates from the transmission. Some of the same LE AWD Rav4 vehicles I've driven, you can just barely tell that it is downshifting. On mine and a few others I've driven, there's a nice thump. This happens on most drives after the vehicle has had time to cool completely down, and only for about the first 10 to 15 minutes of driving.
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post #24 of 111 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 03:45 PM
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I am not sure why a slight downshift jerk is a big deal. If it impacts the longevity then this is a problem. If it is just a characteristic of the 8AT then so what.
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post #25 of 111 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 07:18 PM
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About the third day we had our 2019, I had an odd incident with the transmission that I never had before. After reading all the posts I think I now know why. I had approached a stop sign and coasted, lightly touching the brakes. I don't think I came to a complete stop, but pretty near. I accelerated from the stop into a right turn without a lot of throttle and about half way in the turn retarded my pressure on the pedal; naturally the vehicle responded by slowing. At that point I applied light pressure to the pedal and the darn thing jumped or shuddered about 4 times. My wife and I looked at each other and I said, what the hell was that? We both burst out laughing, more from being startled. It hasn't happened again, because after thinking about it being an 8 speed, it occurred to me that gas mileage being everything, this trans would always search for the highest gear. I had "caused" this response because as someone already said, I caught it with its pants down so to speak and gave it too many demands too quickly. I now accelerate smoothly and consistently and it never gets confused. In a perfect world I guess I should be able to drive any ole way I feel like, but I think this is a characteristic of so many gears. My wife's 2019 NX300 with a 6 speed has zero issues like this (that is one fine car). And, of course, this is all just my opinion. There's a lot of very knowledgeable people on here and I enjoy reading everyone's respectful exchange of ideas and experience.

Last edited by ssn571; 04-01-2019 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Need to correct whether I stopped or not.
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post #26 of 111 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 07:53 PM
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It is my understanding that the torque converter is only used when stopped and 1 to 2 shift with the 8 speed direct drive transmission.

After that from 2-8 gears everything is locked up, I believe this is right if someone knows different please feel free to correct me.

So this sudden jerk at rolling stops makes some sense to me, I have personally experienced this but think about driving a manual stick transmission when slowing down you either have to upshift or down shift into 1st or 2nd right.

Now if you choose 1st your going to get a sudden jerk and take off, if you choose 2nd its going to be laggy cause once the clutch is let out it is also direct drive.

This is the same thing our auto has to decide and sometime it also chooses 1st and sometime it goes with 2nd, pretty much the same as driving a stick.

The downshift jerk when coming to a stop which I have not personally experienced could also just be the torque converter kicking in or out at low speeds, just as pushing in a clutch would do.
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post #27 of 111 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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I am not sure why a slight downshift jerk is a big deal. If it impacts the longevity then this is a problem. If it is just a characteristic of the 8AT then so what.
The hard downshift when stopping is annoying if nothing else. The "coast, go and jerk" is often uncomfortable, and I could see it contributing to an accident in certain situations. Like merging in heavy traffic. There are times when you need the vehicle to respond as expected, not pause then jerk forward. For all cases, hard shifting means increased force on the components involved which means accelerated wear, which means reduced service life.
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post #28 of 111 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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It is my understanding that the torque converter is only used when stopped and 1 to 2 shift with the 8 speed direct drive transmission.

The downshift jerk when coming to a stop which I have not personally experienced could also just be the torque converter kicking in or out at low speeds, just as pushing in a clutch would do.
The shifting issue when coming to a complete stop is actual a nice solid thump.
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post #29 of 111 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddot View Post
It is my understanding that the torque converter is only used when stopped and 1 to 2 shift with the 8 speed direct drive transmission.

After that from 2-8 gears everything is locked up, I believe this is right if someone knows different please feel free to correct me.

So this sudden jerk at rolling stops makes some sense to me, I have personally experienced this but think about driving a manual stick transmission when slowing down you either have to upshift or down shift into 1st or 2nd right.

Now if you choose 1st your going to get a sudden jerk and take off, if you choose 2nd its going to be laggy cause once the clutch is let out it is also direct drive.

This is the same thing our auto has to decide and sometime it also chooses 1st and sometime it goes with 2nd, pretty much the same as driving a stick.

The downshift jerk when coming to a stop which I have not personally experienced could also just be the torque converter kicking in or out at low speeds, just as pushing in a clutch would do.
Well, either way, you're down-shifting...just a matter of if you drop only into 2nd gear, or all the way down into 1st. For everyday driving conditions, you generally only drop all the way into 1st gear if you've come to a complete stop...most standard transmission vehicles have a "lock" in place that makes it difficult to shift into first gear unless you are stopped. For most "rolling stops", you don't want to nor need to go lower then 2nd.

If you drop all the way to first, of course that "sudden jerk" is because the RPMs will shoot up quickly ... so maybe you're correct, and those RAVs which folks experience this they are dropping into 1st gear too early, despite not coming to a complete stop? What I find odd is why wouldn't all RAVs behave the same way, as this should be something controlled by the computer, and you would think they'd all be programmed the same from the factory...?

While I'm very familiar with driving standard transmission (this RAV is the first automatic I've owned), I don't believe I've experienced the issue as described here, so I can't comment on it based on my own experience...either that or I've been driving standard transmission for so long I don't notice it
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post #30 of 111 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 03:11 PM
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I haven't experienced any kind of issue when "coming to a stop," but I have experienced what presumably is the transmission going down to 1st gear when doing "touch and go" stops, thus causing a bit of a jerk. I have gone back and forth between using "normal" mode and "ECO" mode when driving around town, and I definitely haven't had any such issues when using "ECO" mode. It's a "computer-controlled transmission," and the different modes definitely give it different "programs," so I would encourage folks to try the "ECO" mode when driving around town -- I'm now definitely preferring it, after sticking with it for a few days. If anything, it seems that "I barely give it any gas" when starting out in "normal" mode, but in "ECO" mode, I've got to put my foot into it a little more. It's not like I'm going any faster or getting further up on the "ECO" display in the MID -- it's just a change in response to my foot on the gas. I easily recommend giving it a shot.


One other thing I've discovered with the "ECO" mode has been while using the radar cruise control on the freeway -- I have been routinely bugged by how, if you've been slowed by a car in front of you, and then you move into a clear lane, it's like my RAV4 really stands on it, often accelerating quickly right up to another car going slower, and then it stomps on the brakes. This being in "normal" mode. I'm not so sure about braking when coming near another slower car, but most definitely, in "ECO" mode, my RAV4 seems to accelerate quite a bit more gently in these kinds of situations. Which I much, much prefer. In "normal" mode, I was often hitting the "cancel" button when making moves like that, to prevent the car from accelerating so quickly. I don't feel the need to do that in "ECO" mode. So, it's just one more reason to use "ECO" mode, from my perspective.

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