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For those who chose gas over hybrid, why?

20K views 91 replies 56 participants last post by  Jlhrstv 
#1 ·
General discussion, don’t want a heated debate. I’m just Curious as to see some of the reasons why you guys chose a 19 gas over a 19 hybrid model. After driving both I couldn’t imagine wanting the gas model over the hybrid. Would love to hear some reasoning!
 
#3 ·
For me it was a large part because of the Drive-Train (CVT and eAWD). With the gas models having a "tug and jerking motion", I think it may have back-fired on me. If I were to do it again, I would probably have taken a chance with the Hybrid !
 
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#66 ·
I have the hybrid XSE, I too was skeptical about the transmission. It turns out that the transmission is not a true cvt unit, there is no belt or chain. It is driven by all gears and two electric motors. Very smooth and quiet. The only problem is finding the hybrids, don't think Toyota thought this one out. I did drive the gas only version for about 700 miles and I didn't experience any issues that are being talked about.
 
#9 ·
Bought an adventure (no adventures in hybrid as of yet).



Mainly because the adventure was the only model I could stand looking at from the front. The open mouth look :D of many suvs now days kills me.


This was my own motivation as well...the Adventure model is what I wanted. If there was a hybrid version I *may* have considered it (I definitely would have taken a test drive). Given the amount of miles I put on it, don’t know if the improved gas mileage alone would be significant enough to sell me on it.

I wouldn’t say I was exactly in a rush to buy, but I was in need of a new vehicle and had essentially already been holding off for several months already in anticipation of the 2019 RAVs arriving...so opting for the hybrid would have extended that a few more months as well

I have a feeling I’m more likely to regret not getting the TRD model once they become available for the 2020 MY...not that I have a delusional understanding of the real “off roading” capabilities of this vehicle, regardless of trim, but I still like the idea of the more rugged suspension and more capable wheel/tire size the TRD is rumored to have.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#7 ·
With the Hybrid model, If you have problems outside of warranty, your in deep trouble.
With the gas model, your looking at a very good chance of 300,000 miles of almost trouble free service.


I know, with todays technology, either one "can" go either way. And I have gained interest lately and have been considering the purchase of a pure EV. As an RC hobbyist, I frequently use the latest "commercially available" technology in batteries (LIPO's and LIFE's). And I believe that I have a good understanding of the technology.
 
#33 ·
Sorry to hijack the thread... wanted to answer this question...



I drive the 2017 RAV4 Hybrid... the answer is yes.
- Faster start
- Faster 0-60
- First gen eAWD so something but better than nothing... have not tested in mud/snow yet.
- Bonus of much higher MPG and quiet/clean/guilt-less using the drive through.
- Much bigger difference of hp between gas and hybrid for the 2016-2018 model years... see below...


https://www.consumerreports.org/suv...roves-to-be-the-most-fuel-efficient-suv-ever/

On 2016-2018 model years... "The standard engine is a 176-hp... with a 0-60 mph time of about nine seconds and a respectable 24 mpg—performances that are on par for the class. The hybrid version feels even punchier at low speeds, thanks to the combination of the electric drive system and the gas engine, which produces a total output of 194 hp. You can even drive it in electric mode typically at low speeds up to 40 mph."


On 2019- model years...
https://www.toyota.com/rav4/features/mpg/4444/4456/4454

Hybrid has 219 combined horsepower + is AWD.
Gasoline LE/XLE has 203hp and is not AWD.
 
#14 ·
I wanted leather seats. I got my new XLE Premium for 28250 out the door, whereas I'd have paid at least 32000 for an XSE.

At 30mpg vs 40mpg, and estimating $3/gal, it would have taken about 160,000 miles to make up the difference. That does include covering the interest paid on the additional ~$3750.

Further, if the battery can only be expected to perform to 150k or maybe 200k miles, I'd end up spending $3k at that point and be back at square one.

I briefly wondered if I'd have been happier with an XL or XLE hybdrid, which would have been much closer to what I paid for my XLEP. However, a few days after I got the vehicle, my dog excitedly jumped into my car directly from a muddy puddle in my yard, and smeared mud all over both front seats. Fortunately, 30 seconds with a damp towel and they were good as new. So, again that takes me back to requiring the XSE, and taking a long time to break even.
 
#18 ·
From a purely economical standpoint, gas beats hybrid for the average driver when you factor fuel cost vs the added cost for the vehicle.
At $4/gallon in California, hybrid *starts* to get into breaking even within 120,000 miles.
Mechanically, hybrid does not do well:
1 - Frequent short trips - the ICE runs until the system is up to operating temperature
2 - Extremely cold weather - ICE runs to maintain temperature, batteries are not as efficient
3 - Infrequent driving - Self-discharge while parked increases ICE load

I'm in both camps.
My wife has a '15 Rav and a hybrid will never make sense for her. 4 years and she's just hit 30k, that's ~1400 gallons @ 22mpg = $5k @ $3.60/gallon. That's ~$100/mo. Even if the hybrid were up into Camry territory at 50mpg, she'd still be spending $50/mo... it would be less savings than the difference in the payment.

OTOH, I have a '16 Corolla with 80k on it. Even at 32mpg, I've bought 2500 gallons, ~$9,000, about $250/mo.
I rarely make short trips, the car might sit parked all weekend, but my commute is 45 miles each way.
If the hybrid gets 50mpg, then that 80k would have been 1600 gallons... a saving of 900 gallons, at $3.50/gal that's about $88/mo savings.
It may not cover the cost difference, but it would make it more convenient because I'd be able to refuel once per week instead of every 3-4 days.

My next vehicle will be a hybrid Camry, unless they expand the hybrid Corolla line to include an XLE/XSE trim level.
 
#19 ·
I bought a Hybrid Limited because I drive a ton to work back and forth and am already coming off another Hybrid (2013 Sonata Hybrid). Even still it took negotiation to get the price point down where I wanted it, a little over 4.5k off sticker, and that made it an instant buy. Also I LOVE the CVT, I've always hated the feel of transitional transmissions, having no judder or gear change feels soooo nice.

My wife is getting the Adventure fully loaded. the reason... The ONLY reason.. because its pretty and the only trim level that has (almost) every feature in the Blue Flame color.

If Blue Flame was available in a Limited Hybrid, she would have instantly got that. I went so far as considering buying a hybrid and having it painted for her, but then i did cost estimates and to get a VERY good quality job done would have cost 4 grand. not worth it.
 
#20 ·
first hybrid

traded a 2018 lexus nx300 in on xse, lexus was averaging 23 mpg and was paying 80 cents more on the gallon of gas for premium. filled rav4 up today, dash showed 44mpg, figured old school way gallons divided by miles, got 45mpg. transmission in this thing is so smooth, its not like a cvt in a Nissan, no belt, does not have rubber band feel. when in sport mode its makes a big difference in power.
 
#21 ·
I wanted the look of the Adventure, with the bigger plastic fender trim, orange accents, matte black wheels, and Tacoma-like front end. The other front end has zero appeal to me.

Mechanically, not happy with the issues with the rear driveline disconnect problems (read my thread in "Mechanical" tab).

If they made a hybrid that LOOKED exactly like the Blue Flame Adventure, I would have gotten that no matter what the difference in price. The Gas Transmission is not good.

Unless Toyota has a miracle fix for this trans, I probably wont keep this car past a few years.
 
#24 ·
As others have mentioned, no hybrids were available when I bought my Limited AWD. I figured that it would take several months before anyone in my area would have a hybrid in the configuration and color that I wanted. But mainly, I wanted to buy now, and wasn't willing to wait even another week, let alone several months.


As for mileage, my average has been increasing, and I'm pretty close to 30 MPG -- which I expect to get well over, after a summer's worth of driving. On the open road, I've seen "trip summary" reports (which show for about half a minute after you turn the ignition off) of 40.5 MPG, and many between 38 MPG and that. Heck, my trade-in was a 2015 Corolla S Premium, and about the best I got from that on the open road was 42 MPG -- that's just not very far off, with the RAV4. Also, I should mention that I'm retired, and I'm not doing a lot of "in-town commuting" that might return better MPG from a hybrid -- no, I'm doing mostly highway and freeway driving, which presumably wouldn't benefit so much from a hybrid system.



I have found My RAV4's car-calculated mileage to be quite accurate -- far better than the Corolla's ever was -- with differences usually less than a tenth of an MPG between the car's numbers and my calculations. So, I have respect for those "car calculations."


To put my current MPG into perspective, the RAV4 has been right between my previous two cars -- a 2008 Camry SE V6 and that 2015 Corolla. About 5 MPG less than the Corolla, and about 5 MPG better than the Camry. That is absolutely not bad whatsoever for an SUV.


So, I'm happy enough with the mileage. And while I comprehend that a hybrid can do better, I just cannot get past the expense of "when you need to replace that hybrid battery." Which I estimate to be "around $5,000," and required when the vehicle has lost a rather whopping ton of trade-in value. I suppose, in the end, it's not so much the extra cost of a hybrid to purchase, but rather "that plus the cost of replacing the hybrid battery" that I could buy a heck of a lot of gasoline with.


I'm also a bit leery of CVT transmissions. Oh, my Corolla had one, and I had no complaints about driving around with it -- but Toyota offered absolutely no instructions whatsoever in terms of what you should do to properly maintain it. "Inspect" it starting some time after 100,000 miles, and that was the end of it. Sure, go to any dealership or any shop, and they'll do everything they can to get you to do a transmission flush, or whatever. The local shop I've used for around 35 years was very honest with me -- "Yeah, our invoice system always puts stuff like that on our invoices, but we can't even hook up a CVT to our flushing machine." And so on. No worries -- just do some research on the Internet. And find several thousand, entirely different, recommendations from everyone in tarnation. At least with an automatic transmission, you have shops that know what on Earth to do with them.


Finally, while I didn't comprehend it when I made my purchase, I have come to really value the torque-vectoring AWD system in my Limited AWD. I really haven't gone off-road, and I have very few plans of doing so -- can you say "parking lots out in fields?" But, when you put the Limited AWD in Sport mode, on-road, you can really feel the difference, compared to the other on-road modes. And you can see the difference with the AWD display. I tried it a few times on local roads and didn't notice much of a difference, but the first time I tried it "up on the twisty mountain roads," the difference was notable -- and it sure felt like a much better driving experience. Yes, I understand that the hybrids have their electric motor system, but I don't know how it compares to the mechanical torque vectoring system for on-road driving. All I can tell you is that I don't use Sport mode very often around town, but I'll definitely switch over to it when I'm on highways that go up and down hills, and around curves.


So, that's why I didn't buy a hybrid, and I remain happy with my Limited AWD. Sure, I wouldn't mind better MPG numbers, but my average has been increasing, ever since I bought the vehicle. I'm looking forward to seeing how high it will go!
 
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#25 ·
"I'm also a bit leery of CVT transmissions. Oh, my Corolla had one, and I had no complaints about driving around with it -- but Toyota offered absolutely no instructions whatsoever in terms of what you should do to properly maintain it. "Inspect" it starting some time after 100,000 miles, and that was the end of it. Sure, go to any dealership or any shop, and they'll do everything they can to get you to do a transmission flush, or whatever. The local shop I've used for around 35 years was very honest with me -- "Yeah, our invoice system always puts stuff like that on our invoices, but we can't even hook up a CVT to our flushing machine." And so on. No worries -- just do some research on the Internet. And find several thousand, entirely different, recommendations from everyone in tarnation. At least with an automatic transmission, you have shops that know what on Earth to do with them."

If you do a little research, you will find that the CVT has less than 20 moving parts and requires no maintenance. There are no bands, pulleys or belts. It is a fantastic piece of engineering. You can probably find a way to drain the oil and refill it, but why? Look at this.
 
#27 ·
If you do a little research, you will find that the CVT has less than 20 moving parts and requires no maintenance. There are no bands, pulleys or belts. It is a fantastic piece of engineering. You can probably find a way to drain the oil and refill it, but why? Look at this.
It is really cool. Really wish they called it something different than eCVT since the words CVT bring to mind the pulley, belt and expanding pulley system that’s in Nissans, Subarus, Toyota’s...etc.

I remember Audi and Mini having CVT and then dumping them for reliability and performance issues.

I did pick gas for the same reason as some of the posters. I needed a car quick and hybrids were not available at the time and I didn’t like that it had a CVT, but that was before knowing what the eCVT really was.

I picked the Tail because of the DTV AWD and it’s unique exterior styling and the interior accents. Also like the XSE for this reason and if they made one with a better grill, I would regretted my choice lol.

Lots of snow and challenging winter conditions where I’m at and the DTV AWD did not disappoint at all. Wasn’t keen on a “slip and grip” type system or one that uses brake torque vectoring. Did watch videos of the hybrid AWD and it does look pretty good.
 
#38 ·
So I had a ‘13 Rav4 Limited gas model and was really sick of the rough/bouncy ride and the crappy mpg so a significantly better ride and a significantly better mpg plus way more safety, sound, tech advances for a smaller price differential made it a no-brainer to me.
 
#43 ·
Plenty of people "need" or WANT AWD. I like having it for my family for heavy rains and light snow, plus trips over the mountain passes.

The 2019 RAV4 Hybrid has NiMH batteries, NOT Ni-Cad. It was a choice Toyota made for cost and other reasons...easy to look up.

What does CA have to do with the decision? Serious question...is there an extra rebate or incentive for HV and/or EV vehicles?

Rob
 
#50 ·
The hybrid was not available when I bought my gas guzzler RAV (lol), but I had no plans on waiting for the hybrid.

Just not a fan of CVT transmissions.
Looking back at 10 year old Prius or any hybrid, I really do not feel like dealing with a battery replacement. Knowing me, I will not go with refurbished/reconditioned batteries, so the cost on that was a factor as well.

I am hoping to get at least 10 years or 250k miles without a major repair and off to another new car. I rather not spend a large amount of money in repairs of a old car vs leaving it in saving for a newer car.
 
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