as I saw there are 2 different VIN# starting with 2T3R xxxxxxxxx and JTMRxxxxxxx for 2013/14 RAV. does anyone know what's different?
the meaning of VIN#
dd2maker
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If it starts with a 2T it was made in Canada. If a JT, Japan. That's what I found on the forums here anyway when I bought mine.
Here is the thread where I found that info.
http://www.rav4world.com/forums/123-4-4-general/102033-where-your-4-4-made.html
Here is the thread where I found that info.
http://www.rav4world.com/forums/123-4-4-general/102033-where-your-4-4-made.html
compare to made in Canada, looks like no making sense to ship the car from Japan by the sea then cross pacific ocean, go through Panama canal then all the way up to New York port and put them together with those cars which made in Canada at same price to sell.
May sound hard to believe, but the cost of many Toyotas made in Japan is lower than those made in the US or Canada, in spite of higher labor costs. Many different factors play a role.
Higher productivity and automation are one. Just to give you an example. The number of industrial robots per 100 factory workers in different countries is:
- US: ~30 robots per 100 workers
- Germany: ~100 robots per 100 workers
- Japan: ~300 robots per 100 workers
Another factor is where are suppliers of parts and components located. Many of the suppliers are located in Japan, so you still need to pay transportation costs from Japan to North America.
The main reason Toyota (and Honda, Nissan, etc.) have opened plants outside of Japan is to get tax benefits and public opinion about buying a car from a "foreign" company. Some cars, like Camry or Tundra, which are made of mostly US-made parts (>70%), and sold almost exclusively in North America, it's cheaper to make them in the USA. In other countries, local manufacturing is the only option to avoid paying exorbitant import duties. But for some "global" platforms like the RAV, building them in Japan and sending them half-around-the-globe may still be the cheapest supply chain option. In my line of business I can list hundreds of examples where manufacturing goods overseas and paying shipping costs is way cheaper than making them locally (and contrary to the public opinion, it has nothing to do with labor costs).
Finally, Toyota likes to start the production of new "global" platforms at one of their best plants in Japan. "Best" meaning the ones that have the most qualified workers and best quality control. The reason is to be develop assembly procedures, catch issues and make improvements at the most capable plant and then roll out these learnings to less capable locations.
First Gen.IV RAVs were made at the Tahara plant. It is the most computerized and robotized automotive plant in the world and produces the Lexus brand of vehicles including the Lexus IS, Lexus GS, Lexus LS, Lexus GX, and Lexus LX models. Although it is a predominantly Lexus manufacturing facility, Toyota uses it as "proving grounds" for other product lines that Toyota considers strategically important. Tahara plant is Toyota's "star" facility that is held to the highest possible standard to produce "perfect" vehicles.
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Very interesting info!
What you're saying is I should have found a JT.. VIN to buy
Nah, I trust the Canadian hands... I've seen some of the best hand-made, quality stuff ever up in Canada!!
EDIT: I just heard that Toyota is actually on a run to reduce the number of robots and replace with humans:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...m/news/2014-04-06/humans-replacing-robots-herald-toyota-s-vision-of-future.html
http://qz.com/196200/toyota-is-beco...mans/#196200/toyota-is-becoming-more-efficient-by-replacing-robots-with-humans/
I don't think there is any significant quality difference based on manufacturing country. Toyota sets the same basic standards and expectations for all their plants. But they do have a few factories that are "special" in the sense that they are either intended to produce their flagship / premium products (like Lexus), or are better equipped to deal with new products. But once the product has been through the "learning curve", they should all be the same.Very interesting info!
What you're saying is I should have found a JT.. VIN to buy
That said, I have owned 5 Toyota vehicles, 2 of them made in Japan, 3 in the USA. The fit-and-finish of the Japan-made vehicles is noticeably better. Things like gaps between panels, how cable harnesses are fixed in place or how smooth the paint is. Minor details that are mostly cosmetic. But when it comes to reliability and mechanical quality, I have not noticed any real difference - just as expected.
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My own anecdote:
I have owned 5 Honda/Acura vehicles:
-- 1989 prelude
-- 1993 prelude
-- 2002 RSX-S
-- 2008 Civic Si (coupe)
-- 2009 Civic Si (sedan)
The first 3 made in Japan, last 2 in Canada. My experience is exactly the same as yours. the first Prelude, 89, was so tight -- even after 180K and 12 years.. no squeaks, rattles, or vibrations. The second prelude and RSX-S also had a small-but-noticable difference. The latter two civics (the '09 I still own) are very well put together but I notice some things like "fish eyes" in the paint or, as you mentioned, different harnesses not being secured down all the way... just little things.
I can't say much about the civics though from the regard that I only had the '08 for a year (08-09) and I've had the '09 since new but it only gets driven about 1/2 the year and is still very much a "baby".
That siad, when I saw that the Rav was made in Canada, I saw it as a positive!
One final word on fit-and-finish and mechanical quality / reliability. My experience has been that one is not necessarily indicative of the other.
I had a BWM 5-series. The fit-and-finish and quality of interior materials was excellent. But the car was a perfect example of being "reliably unreliable", lol. Once a year something would fail. With annoying regularity. Like a Swiss watch.
On the other hand I had a VW Beetle (classic, air cooled, made in Mexico). It was probably the most poorly finished vehicle ever. Rough edges, everything in it screamed "cheap" in capital letters. But it was remarkably reliable. Except for occasional V-belt failure (which takes literally 5 mins to replace) I didn't have a single problem with that car.
I also had 4 Renaults (actually 5, but I don't count one of them because it was a company owned car and I got it used and only drove it for about a year). No, I am not a masochist (as some who have owned French cars might think). Three of these cars were perfect (reliability-wise). No major failures, and the minor things that would pop up from time to time were significantly less frequent than most cars during that time (1980's). The other two though had constant problems - which was actually a good thing for me as mechanical engineering student at that time. I learned how to service and replace brake components (master cylinder, calipers - several times), starters (several times), clutch, alternator, engine mounts, wheel bearings, shocks, countless electric components, fuel pump, etc., etc. Not to mention that compression was gone at 100,000 km and the car was burning oil at an alarming rate ("never leave home without a bottle of engine oil"). It was a lot fun, though. And a great learning opportunity.
Having experienced so many different car brands, models - and problems, I can't help laughing when I read some of the complaints about Toyota cars on this forum. Honestly, we are blessed by living in the 21st century when car engineers finally learned how to make cars safe and reliable.
I had a BWM 5-series. The fit-and-finish and quality of interior materials was excellent. But the car was a perfect example of being "reliably unreliable", lol. Once a year something would fail. With annoying regularity. Like a Swiss watch.
On the other hand I had a VW Beetle (classic, air cooled, made in Mexico). It was probably the most poorly finished vehicle ever. Rough edges, everything in it screamed "cheap" in capital letters. But it was remarkably reliable. Except for occasional V-belt failure (which takes literally 5 mins to replace) I didn't have a single problem with that car.
I also had 4 Renaults (actually 5, but I don't count one of them because it was a company owned car and I got it used and only drove it for about a year). No, I am not a masochist (as some who have owned French cars might think). Three of these cars were perfect (reliability-wise). No major failures, and the minor things that would pop up from time to time were significantly less frequent than most cars during that time (1980's). The other two though had constant problems - which was actually a good thing for me as mechanical engineering student at that time. I learned how to service and replace brake components (master cylinder, calipers - several times), starters (several times), clutch, alternator, engine mounts, wheel bearings, shocks, countless electric components, fuel pump, etc., etc. Not to mention that compression was gone at 100,000 km and the car was burning oil at an alarming rate ("never leave home without a bottle of engine oil"). It was a lot fun, though. And a great learning opportunity.
Having experienced so many different car brands, models - and problems, I can't help laughing when I read some of the complaints about Toyota cars on this forum. Honestly, we are blessed by living in the 21st century when car engineers finally learned how to make cars safe and reliable.
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