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RAV4 hybrid in the snow

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#21 ·
Yeah, Swatch, you get it. I surely didn't want to make this a thread about all-season vs. snow tires. Plenty of discussion here already on that and it boils down to location--and at what cost is safety important. OP is in Colorado, you'd think he'd need snows. But I got by with all-seasons in Idaho for 5 years, skating by, I mean getting by. So it is possible. I finally figured it out and got snows. But don't blame the AWD system when it can't do its job because the tires don't track.

In addition to that, there is a big problem, even with gen 4.3 owners and apparently the gen 4.4 hybrid also-- People don't understand the need to turn off the TRAC and VSC safety nannies when the conditions warrant. I'll wager 90% RAV owners do not know! It is a relatively rare event to be needed. And it is counter-intuitive to TURN OFF something called traction control when it seems you need all the traction you can get! I blame Toyota and Toyota dealers for not making it more crystal clear to owners. and in the owners manual.
 
#22 ·
I may have side-tracked this thread somewhat, so it would be great to hear from RAV Hybrid owners with current winter driving experiences. It's my next vehicle of choice, just tried to pass along what I've found my machine--it should be same or similar for you.

You can have some real fun if you have a snowy / icy empty big parking lot. Put that baby through its paces. Experiment with the 4WD lock button, and see if you can tell the difference with TRAC OFF, VSC OFF etc. You'll know if you can do some powered donuts on ice!
 
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#23 ·
It's only snowed once significantly here since I've owned my HV, 10-11" of fresh snow was no match for the AWD-i system, I tested it on two steep hills, stopping mid hill and starting up again, no problems, just like driving on dry pavement, just all season tires, I've never, ever bought studded tires in my life let alone snow tires, they're just not really needed here. Did use some sawdust snow tires about 50yrs ago that just happen to be on the car I was using at the time! :laugh
 
#24 ·
Swatch said:
Surely, good winter tires would have been more effective in this situation with more traction. You first said that pumping the brakes had no effect, and AWD has nothing to do with brakes, but tire does.

But I understand what you mean, but RAV4RED explained it right.

Also, I need to say that it's not specific to the RAV4H AWD-i but a lot of modern AWD. A lot of Honda/Acura/Toyota/etc ICE car with AWD are like that. Not saying it's the best AWD, but I don't think it's the worst.

We have a big winter here and like I said before, it's very cold, a lot of snow/ice and steep hills, and I had no problem at all. But, I have great winter tires, a must here (it's a law to have winter tires here in Quebec, Canada).I do not want to look pretentious, but if this vehicle meets my needs in winter, it will be the case for almost everyone, except maybe those who want to go off-road! >:D
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$1k for winter tire set is a worthwhile purchase to me. I have more control during winter and lower the risks of getting into an accident and driving my insurance premiums up. Insurance is costly here in Canada even if I'm paying a lot less compared to a lot of Ontarians.

Even my daughter who just got her graduated license early this year is able to drive on slushy/snowy roads. And when I was bringing her to the exam center in January, the RAV4 tires were already slipping and this is with Blizzak DMV2's that are only on their second year.
 
#25 · (Edited by Moderator)
Quickdtoo said:
It's only snowed once significantly here since I've owned my HV, 10-11" of fresh snow was no match for the AWD-i system, I tested it on two steep hills, stopping mid hill and starting up again, no problems, just like driving on dry pavement, just all season tires, I've never, ever bought studded tires in my life let alone snow tires, they're just not really needed here. Did use some sawdust snow tires about 50yrs ago that just happen to be on the car I was using at the time! :laugh
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I live in your neck of the world too and I find winter tires very worth while. People forget that winter tires are as much or more important for steering and braking compared to acceleration traction. I think that I could get around for the most part traction wise but when I was in the mountains a couple of weeks ago I had another car on terrible tires I might add come around a corner sliding into my lane. I was able to steer with complete control on the snow covered road. I was able to avoid him and stop after he went off the road. Luckily he was okay but he never should have been driving in the conditions he was with the half worn or more A/S tires on his Accord. I'm not sure if the A/S tires would have had nearly the control for be while braking and steering. I've avoided many accidents over the years having winter tires on many of my cars, mostly FWD due the the much improved steering and braking ability.

And by the way, I've never bought studded winter tires as the studless are amazing. I'll bet if we got together and did some testing you would be amazed at the difference the winter tires make between our RAV4s! :wink
 
#26 ·
Just to add my 2cents...

We have had several snow and mixed precip storms this winter, and my 2017 RAv4 Hybrid has not had any trouble handling it. I live on the steepest hill in town (21percent incline, per the town's planning department) so need something that can grip well. The RAV4 AWD seems more than equal to the task.
 
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#27 · (Edited)
I live in Syracuse New York which is the snowiest metropolitan city in the United States. I have read through a lot of your answers and you think that you get good traction in the snow. I think it is because you’re not really dealing with very much snow so you think it is nice

I Honestly feel snow traction in this car is pathetic and Toyota should be ashamed of themselves. I am running dedicated snow tires with the mountain snowflake designation. My driveway has a fair incline to it with 6 inches of heavy wet wet snow this car is stuck like a fat boy in mud. Even with traction control turned off.

I have a friend with a Subaru, I think it’s the Forrester. He stops in the middle of my driveway steepest part and can get going again no problem. I don’t want to own a Subaru but I have to admit their four-wheel-drive system is pretty impressive. He also has all season tires on it to add further insult to me.
2017 rav4 hybrid

I am pretty happy overall with my car but I think Toyota needs some serious improvement for the four-wheel-drive system.
 
#28 ·
Angela90210 said:
I live in Syracuse New York which is the snowiest metropolitan city in the United States. I have read through a lot of your answersand you think that you get good traction in the snow. I think it is because you’re not really dealing with very much snow so you think it is nice
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This is a funny comment... for sure you really don't know what kind of winter we have here to say things like that...:wink
 
#30 ·
Angela90210 said:
...I am running dedicated snow tires with the mountain snowflake designation. My driveway has a fair incline to it with 6 inches of heavy wet wet snow this car is stuck like a fat boy in mud. Even with traction control turned off....
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So Angela, Are you turning off BOTH the traction control (dash will light up as TRAC OFF) AND the vehicle stability control (dash will light up with car with squiggly lines and OFF). You need to push and hold for 5 seconds. As I said before, if only TRAC OFF is applied, the engine will cut power and bog down.

If you have both of them off, and still getting stuck, your wheels should be spinning.

It would be great if more owners out there with snow could experiment with this feature and let us know.
 
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#31 ·
RAVN4RED said:
So Angela, Are you turning off BOTH the traction control (dash will light up as TRAC OFF) AND the vehicle stability control (dash will light up with car with squiggly lines and OFF). You need to push and hold for 5 seconds. As I said before, if only TRAC OFF is applied, the engine will cut power and bog down.

If you have both of them off, and still getting stuck, your wheels should be spinning.

It would be great if more owners out there with snow could experiment with this feature and let us know.
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Yes I hold the button for about five seconds until that other message pops up as well. I hate that you have to be completely stopped and then it takes about five seconds for this to even engage it should do this immediately I am in deep scary stuff when I need this extra traction sometimes I don’t have the luxury of stopping or an extra five seconds.
 
#32 ·
Angela90210 said:
Yes I hold the button for about five seconds until that other message pops up as well. I hate that you have to be completely stopped and then it takes about five seconds for this to even engage it should do this immediately I am in deep scary stuff when I need this extra traction sometimes I don’t have the luxury of stopping or an extra five seconds.
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I'm sorry I only know how my gen 4.3 works, and assume it is same for the new gen and the hybrid.

If you are moving and getting into the deep scary stuff, you can punch the 4WD LOCK button and it immediately locks front and back wheels for trundling along up to 25 mph. It seems to give a little more sure-footed drive in heavy broken snow. But it really isn't necessary as the system will shift power to wheels automatically, so the LOCK seems like overkill to me. And in speeds over 25 mph, the AWD system is still working, just not locked.

But if you are STUCK, by definition, you are NOT moving anyway. And in reality takes about 3 seconds to push and hold the button to disable TRAC OFF and VSC OFF. So not a big deal. In some situations, you might need to rock the car back in forth, and you do not want the TRAC or VSC defeating the power. If this doesn't get you going, your wheels should still be spinning. This indicated you either you are in snow too deep (like bottoming out) or the tires lack sufficient tread.

I appreciate your feedback. It is a consideration as my gen 4.3 has awesome snow capability, as good as my sister's Subaru. Hoping the hybrid is close to that, but I am in an area where I can accept less capability on those very rare occasions.
 
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#33 ·
I don’t know what generation 4.3 is. But only the regular gas engine has an actual lock of the front and back differential. This by nature has to be far superior to the hybrid system of four-wheel-drive. The highbred is just electronic. Nothing physical about the front and back.

If I don’t wait the Full Five Seconds to turn everything off. The car will not allow the tires to spin freely. I think this was a huge mistake on Toyotas part because if you press traction off it means you’re getting into some bad deep slippery stuff.
 
#35 ·
kmartin said:
I think I remember reading somewhere that the hybrid has limited slip traction.
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Nope, only the gas model FWD models have a brake activated auto limited slip in North America, the FWD Hybrid in Europe may have auto limited slip, it's not sold in NA yet, read the eBrochure.


https://www.toyota.com/rav4/ebrochure


DRIVETRAIN
Front-Wheel Drive (FWD) with Automatic Limited-Slip Differential (Auto LS)
 
#36 ·
2 Alberta winters on my 2017 Hybrid SE, with Michelin X-Ice Xi2s - no issues whatsoever, and that's coming from our previous vehicle being a Subaru Forester. Definitely the Forester was slightly superior - but only in about 5% of situations would you notice the difference, and even then the RAV4 never failed, it got us through (just a bit more slippage than the Forester's full time AWD would've allowed). I don't miss the Forester's capability at all though as between the 2011 turbo Forester's ravenous appetite for premium gas and 2017 Hybrid RAV4 my gas bill is half (though I lost some hp and torque).
 
#40 ·
internalaudit said:
Not for Acura's and Subaru's
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Hm... true... used to be that 4-wheel drive means full time and AWD was as needed... guess those 2 are the outliers. Back to original question, the RAV4H is 2 wheel drive when on highway (too fast for electric motor to engage) and when batter is low (low battery mode = no electric motor usage)... It comes on when merging into traffic (extra boost) and when needed on low speed driving. Quite a long list of rules...
 
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