Is it normal for the cold start rattle on a 2AR-FE engine to return after it was repaired? TSB-0041-13 (cold start rattle on Toyota 2AR-FE) was preformed at a local Toyota dealer less than two months/2000 miles ago and the rattle is back. Dealer confirmed rattle, however they are stating that according to Toyota it is normal. Is it? What options do I have now?
Cold start rattle
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Rav4FK
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Is it normal for the cold start rattle on a 2AR-FE engine to return after it was repaired? TSB-0041-13 (cold start rattle on Toyota 2AR-FE) was preformed at a local Toyota dealer less than two months/2000 miles ago and the rattle is back. Dealer confirmed rattle, however they are stating that according to Toyota it is normal. Is it? What options do I have now?
It seems I've heard that while the rattle is typically caused by worn VVT components, a very similar noise for the same duration can be caused by a sticky timing chain tensioner. I scanned the TSB and while removal of the timing chain is required, the tensioner appears to be reused. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
In any event, it's strange they would confirm the issue and also claim it's normal, despite having just done the work. Does it sound exactly the same, or has the rattle noise changed in some way?
In any event, it's strange they would confirm the issue and also claim it's normal, despite having just done the work. Does it sound exactly the same, or has the rattle noise changed in some way?
Thank you for your response. It sounds exactly the same and for the same duration of time. One second or less upon cold start after car has been parked overnight.
dealer said they changed the oil and filter (car had genuine Toyota oil 0W-20 with Toyota TRD filter with about 3,000 miles) thinking that it could resolve the issue but did not.
They also checked the oil pressure at idle and 4,000 RPM and both values were well above tolerance which eliminates worn bearing.
idea of timing chain tensioner is defiantly something I have to think about. As a side note car has about 58,000 miles with regular oil changes at 3 to 5,000 miles intervals.
dealer is saying if I want issue to be fixed, they need to open up the engine and even with that no guarantee.
if you can think of any other possibilities or causes, please let me know. Thank you!
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I have recently acquired a really nice 2009 RAV4 Limited with the 2.5 VVT, 86,000 miles. According to maintenance records it received roughly the same service frequency using fast oil change bulk 5-20. Cold start rattle is one of the things I bought I guess. It had recently been run before my test drive and was as silent as it is now on warm start. In my research somewhere I read using Mobil 1 High Mileage full synthetic with the additional additive package might lessen the problem. We're going to give it a try, I just bought oil today in a 5-20 weight and am questioning if I should have gotten the 0-20 instead. From past experience I learned that the oil can make a difference. We'll see what happens.
Sure wish I could lay my hands on some of the Phillips Trop-Artic synthetic blend like I ran in all my vehicles years ago. No body stocks it but I think I found it by special order. The 1.8 in the Miata I bought years ago made some God awful lifter noises frequently at random startup times with the PO's oil in it. It sounded like the engine was coming apart! After I switched to 10-30 Trop-Artic it became a very rare occurrence. On the Miata forums lots of people ran Mobil 1 just because of this lifter noise. Mine was a daily driver so I ran the Trop-Artic because of the additional cost of Mobil 1 and had great results. For now we'll give the M1 a shot at the rattle I guess.
Sure wish I could lay my hands on some of the Phillips Trop-Artic synthetic blend like I ran in all my vehicles years ago. No body stocks it but I think I found it by special order. The 1.8 in the Miata I bought years ago made some God awful lifter noises frequently at random startup times with the PO's oil in it. It sounded like the engine was coming apart! After I switched to 10-30 Trop-Artic it became a very rare occurrence. On the Miata forums lots of people ran Mobil 1 just because of this lifter noise. Mine was a daily driver so I ran the Trop-Artic because of the additional cost of Mobil 1 and had great results. For now we'll give the M1 a shot at the rattle I guess.
Hey Roger, I hear you loud and clear.
IMHO I would refrain from using heavier oil. My engine oil cap says 0W-20 and owner’s manual states that it is ok to change the oil with 5W-XX but the next oil change must be 0W-XX.
the reason I say no to heavier oil is because VVTI rattles since oil drains out of it and sound goes away when oil pump builds the pressure up within the second after the startup and using heavier oil could prolong the oil pressure buildup. Just my opinion.
As for the type and manufacture of the oil, Toyota’s 0W-XX is marketed as full synthetic (though there will be ppl who will say it is a blend and I tend to agree but regardless it is advertised as synthetic) and per my research it is manufactured by Mobil for Toyota.
would you please keep us posted regarding your experience post M1? Thank you!
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+1 on the 0W-20. I’ve run 5W-20 as well (only twice in 9 years) and the cold start noise started while I was using the 5W. It was less while back to 0W but it was still present.
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OK guys, the 5-20 is going back to the store and I'm going to replace it with the 0-20. I'm rather old school and I guess I'm still a little nervous about 0-weight oil 
. I'm from back in the day when 30W was for summer use and multi-grade was relatively new stuff. Over the years I've learned to trust .... but 0W still makes me a little shy. Okay, I'll step off the dock and give it a try. Hopefully the rattle will go away with the change. If not I have also read that it's not terminal.
We'll keep the thread informed. Thanks!
. I'm from back in the day when 30W was for summer use and multi-grade was relatively new stuff. Over the years I've learned to trust .... but 0W still makes me a little shy. Okay, I'll step off the dock and give it a try. Hopefully the rattle will go away with the change. If not I have also read that it's not terminal.We'll keep the thread informed. Thanks!
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It may not go away, because once it’s there, it’s there. But it might be reduced.OK guys, the 5-20 is going back to the store and I'm going to replace it with the 0-20. I'm rather old school and I guess I'm still a little nervous about 0-weight oil
We'll keep the thread informed. Thanks!
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I'll take that! With a smile 😄
At least it's not like the Miata where I didn't know if I would be able to drive it away after it got done rattling away. Seriously, it really was scary!
At least it's not like the Miata where I didn't know if I would be able to drive it away after it got done rattling away. Seriously, it really was scary!
Roger, I hope the sound goes away. But mine did not.OK guys, the 5-20 is going back to the store and I'm going to replace it with the 0-20. I'm rather old school and I guess I'm still a little nervous about 0-weight oil
We'll keep the thread informed. Thanks!
I paid about $800 for parts and labor at my local Toyota dealer and the sound is there after less than 2 months and about 1,800 miles.
dealer confirms the sound but is telling me it is normal or give us a blank check and let us tear the engine apart. They performed oil pressure test to make sure pump is working and bearings are not worn and the idle and 4,000 RPM a oil pressure values were well above Toyota’s min values. So I told the dealer to go fish with engine tear down idea especially since they said it would be in the thousand and no guarantees they would find the cause.
dealing with Toyota corporate now. They are looking into approving payments for parts if I am willing to pay for the labor and I am considering that option. Will let you know if Toyota corporate pays for the parts.
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Just remember that the labour will be the more expensive proposition. You may get a couple hundred dollars off, but you may end up with a fully disassembled engine too. At current dealer labour rates it’s still a blank cheque.
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How many miles on yours?
mine is also a FWD. Thanks!
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I just hit 157,000 km. The noise showed up around 120,000 km. No issue since, other than the annoyance [emoji849]
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My dealer rate is $85/hr
labor portion of the initial repair was around $430.
not gonna let them open her up beyond changing the VVTI sprocket if Toyota Corporate extends a goodwill gesture and picks up the tab for parts.
I have also seen that ppl are saying no safety or mechanical issues b/c of the rattle. It is just super ANNOYING astound especially for me since I spent $800 on it.
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Rav4FK,
Did I miss your model year and mileage?
Did I miss your model year and mileage?
2012 Toyota RAV4, 4cyl, FWD, under 58,000 miles
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At that price it’s not bad. Even if they need to look to the chain guide it may not be horrible. In my case I’m screwed either way - north of the border our parts prices are asinine, and our labour rates are well over $125/hr. Then tack on 13% tax just for fun. Any wonder I do almost everything myself even without a garage?
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Foryota,
dealer rates by me in northern Virginia also varies significantly. I too heard $120 $110 etc, I just kept calling farther out and asking for their shop rat. Not sure if that is an option for you.
also, for parts, I went to Toyota’s site searched for parts and the site provided me with a list of dealers that have internet based store fronts and their prices are drastically cheap. Let me give you an example. If I order a part online from a participating dealer (list of the participating dealers provided by Toyota’s site) the price of that part is about 20 to 30% cheaper than walking up to the parts counter at the same exact dealer. Also the discounted online prices varies slightly between the participating dealers who have an online store. I really wish dealers in Canada have a similar program. The most expensive part is the VVTI sprocket. Walk up to the counter price around $320. Order online and go to the same counter and pick it up about $240. Go figure.
Our sales tax is half of yours so I do feel your pain.
my wife and 2 kids are coming up next weekend (young and finch area of Toronto) wish I could bring you the parts.
as for doing the repairs yourself, I am the same way 100%. I do the repairs myself as much as possible because I am cheap and I do not trust anyone. When I do the repair, I know the part and know the repair.
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I don't envy you guys. For me the rattle is an annoyance I can live with if I have to. I'm going to do an early oil change and see what happens. When I get around to it I want to get this thing into a shop I trust and address the noisy rear wheel bearing(s), check the alignment because it seems to wander a little and flush the brake lines because it seems the pedal is a little soft. The body is beautiful, lots of bells and whistles, low mileage, one owner and I like the color, Pyrite Mica (it is NOT silver), and the utility. Hopefully (?) this will likely be my last vehicle. 75 in November.
I've just replaced a '98 Mercury Tracer wagon 5 spd I paid $700 for 18 years ago w/120k, spent a little money on and ran up to 220k before it succumbed to MN/WI chassis and brake line rust. At the time the little red Tracer wagon and I met I worked selling Ford & Mercury's. I inspected it off the transport, sold the Tracer new and bought it from the dealership when it came back in as a trade. Truly a bullet proof car. I loved it! I bought the RAV because the reliability looked good and we LOVE our Prius V. I just really don't like the start up rattle.
I've just replaced a '98 Mercury Tracer wagon 5 spd I paid $700 for 18 years ago w/120k, spent a little money on and ran up to 220k before it succumbed to MN/WI chassis and brake line rust. At the time the little red Tracer wagon and I met I worked selling Ford & Mercury's. I inspected it off the transport, sold the Tracer new and bought it from the dealership when it came back in as a trade. Truly a bullet proof car. I loved it! I bought the RAV because the reliability looked good and we LOVE our Prius V. I just really don't like the start up rattle.
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