Engine started to protect system. EV running unavailable

2wheeler · Feb 22, 2022

Did the ground point contact on the DC to DC mounting bolts relate to the solution to this problem?

DC to DC converter issue

Here's a heads up for anyone that runs into this problem (@21:40). A "Hybrid Warning message" and shutdown of Prime's features is the symptom. Replacing some bolts in the DC to DC converter is the solution.

www.rav4world.com

Matt_O · Feb 22, 2022

Gottchi said:
Hi,
my plugin RAV4 is today almost half a year. In Germany the RAV4 Prime is called RAV4 PHEV.
In November at around 4000km mileage I got for the first time while driving the message: "Engine started to protect the system EV driving not available". The battery still had at least 50% charge. The big problem is that after the popup, the petrol engine runs through the entire journey. After break with shut down everthing, the car start again in "normal" EV mode. In the meantime, this message comes almost every day and sometimes at the beginning of the journey, in which case I've reached my destination (30 km) and the battery is still over 90% full....

I have this problem

at different temperatures

whether I drive with cruise control or not

with or without AC/heating

even at speeds below 110 km/h

I've tried many things in the last few weeks and the message keeps popping up and it's only possible to continue driving with a petrol engine.
Maybe someone knows a solution, Toyota still doesn't....

Greetings from Germany

Sounds pretty identical to my experience.
My car currently in dealer (over 2.5 weeks now!") for investigation of another fault (hybrid system malfunction with complete power loss). I also mentioned this issue to dealer and they forwarded onto Toyota technical in case it was linked. Toyota technical "helpfully" referred me to the manual with the bottom line that the system will do what it likes when it likes. They still havent got the foggiest clue what is wrong with my car but seem to think that keeping it for continual testing is an acceptable solution - funnily enough at some point I'd like to drive the car I'm paying monthly payments for! This is obviously the future - cars so complex and full of technology that even the manafacturer cant explain what or why they are doing something. Kind of makes me miss my previous reliable diesel Honda.

jlawr1 · Feb 22, 2022

Could it be that the car is telling you to use the gasoline engine to burn fuel now before it get too stale? Do you drive mostly in EV? When was the last time you added fuel to the gas tank? Just a thought.

Matt_O · Feb 22, 2022

jlawr1 said:
Could it be that the car is telling you to use the gasoline engine to burn fuel now before it get too stale? Do you drive mostly in EV? When was the last time you added fuel to the gas tank? Just a thought.

Know this is not the case with mine - although most of my driving is EV to and from work, I have interspersed HV mnode on duel carriageway and fairly fresh fuel (<2 weeks) and also Premium E5 fuel vs E10

iTim314 · Feb 23, 2022

JetStream said:
That sounds like the controllers in the car detected some sort of problem with the EV system and is using the ICE (internal combustion engine) as a fall-back. It's surprising that it didn't throw a MIL or CEL.

The lack of any trouble code / CEL tells me that this is some kind of built-in logic Toyota is using to preserve the battery. Frustratingly, we do not know what that logic is. We just know that the engine started to protect the system. Some combination of environment, driving style, usage, is making the car think, "the battery needs a rest."

On another topic, users compared this ambiguous behavior to that of the Volt and how the Volt would spell out WHY the engine started. The RAV4 Prime just does what it wants and leaves us wondering why or if there is fault. At least in this case it's telling us it's trying to protect itself, but won't say from WHAT it is try to protect itself or how it determined that it needs protecting. Frustrating.

mililani · Feb 23, 2022

This all sounds like a big problem, and makes me wonder about the sophisticated drive train. Anyways, I wonder if this problem will go away for you folks in the coming months as Spring / Summer hits. Regardless, this is pretty worrisome. Keeping my eye on the updates. Please update us folks.

nickc72 · Feb 23, 2022

I think in automation this is the explainability problem. Generally speaking you need a balance of reliability, predictability, and explainability to gain trust in automation. But explainability is not always required, say for folk getting on a high tech fly by wire airliner. They trust it because it is reliable and predictable. They got the data for that. Most folk don't want to know how and why it works. But when you own a car and it does something unexpected without proper explanation it dents your trust. However, Toyota don't seem to be alone in this. My last PHEV would drop a strange message to cover just about everything leaving you with no idea why EV mode wasn't available.

But of the car said...

Outside temperature is too low, battery requires conditioning.

Battery temperature too high, needs a rest.

ICE system needs periodic lubrication and movement to maintain health.

Etc.

...then I think we'll all be wiser and better for it.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Matt_O · Feb 23, 2022

nickc72 said:
I think in automation this is the explainability problem. Generally speaking you need a balance of reliability, predictability, and explainability to gain trust in automation. But explainability is not always required, say for folk getting on a high tech fly by wire airliner. They trust it because it is reliable and predictable. They got the data for that. Most folk don't want to know how and why it works. But when you own a car and it does something unexpected without proper explanation it dents your trust. However, Toyota don't seem to be alone in this. My last PHEV would drop a strange message to cover just about everything leaving you with no idea why EV mode wasn't available.

But of the car said...

Outside temperature is too low, battery requires conditioning.

Battery temperature too high, needs a rest.

ICE system needs periodic lubrication and movement to maintain health.

Etc.

...then I think we'll all be wiser and better for it.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. We have been used to our car being a machine, which should behave predictably under certain conditions. These cars are now so complicated and computer dependent they have evolved to the next level - predictability is no longer guaranteed. As you say outputting this info in a more granular form rather than a high level generic "computer says no" response would alleviate a lot of end user concerns.

Gottchi · Feb 23, 2022

JetStream said:
That sounds like the controllers in the car detected some sort of problem with the EV system and is using the ICE (internal combustion engine) as a fall-back. It's surprising that it didn't throw a MIL or CEL.

I haven't heard of any other instances of this and it has never happened to my 2021 R4P under those conditions.

If it is repeatable I'd imagine that the dealer would be able to get some sort of data log from the car to understand what is going wrong. If you were in the US, I'd suggest contacting a regional Toyota support center or something but I don't know how that works in the EU.

Hi,
A couple of weeks ago my dealer and I swapped cars for a whole week. While they were driving my car, there was no error in the logbook despite all the pop-up messages. Then drove with a computer on passenger seat. During the message they saved data from the car. My dealer told me that they sent all data to Toyota Germany. So, I'm still waiting...

Sorry about my english, what means MIL and CEL?

Gottchi · Feb 23, 2022

jlawr1 said:
Could it be that the car is telling you to use the gasoline engine to burn fuel now before it get too stale? Do you drive mostly in EV? When was the last time you added fuel to the gas tank? Just a thought.

Before the error occurred in November, I filled up less than once a month.
Now I fill up almost every 2nd / 3rd week, by driving the same daily route.

Gottchi · Feb 23, 2022

Matt_O said:
I think you've hit the nail on the head here. We have been used to our car being a machine, which should behave predictably under certain conditions. These cars are now so complicated and computer dependent they have evolved to the next level - predictability is no longer guaranteed. As you say outputting this info in a more granular form rather than a high level generic "computer says no" response would alleviate a lot of end user concerns.

I have no problem with the ICE turning on under certain outdoor conditions.
But the problem is that the car "for safety reasons" turns off the EV for the entire trip.
Also, if I stand somewhere for longer (traffic lights e.g.), the ICE is running continuously after the popup.
Unfortunately I can not express myself very well in English.

jlawr1 · Feb 23, 2022

Gottchi said:
Hi,
A couple of weeks ago my dealer and I swapped cars for a whole week. While they were driving my car, there was no error in the logbook despite all the pop-up messages. Then drove with a computer on passenger seat. During the message they saved data from the car. My dealer told me that they sent all data to Toyota Germany. So, I'm still waiting...

Sorry about my english, what means MIL and CEL?

MIL is "Malfunction Indicator Light." CEL is "Check Engine Light." They both mean the same thing. They both refer to the error message the car displays when something is not right.

nickc72 · Feb 23, 2022

Gottchi said:
Before the error occurred in November, I filled up less than once a month.
Now I fill up almost every 2nd / 3rd week, by driving the same daily route.

Must be something wrong. Never had EV mode issues. Rare occassion for the ICE to start and usually because I've been driving in EV mode for weeks so I assume it is just moving the parts and lubricating them. Only comes on for 5 to 10 minutes then switches back to EV mode.

Only filled the car up 3 times in 6 months and only because there were 3 long trips in that.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

JetStream · Feb 23, 2022

Gottchi said:
Hi,
A couple of weeks ago my dealer and I swapped cars for a whole week. While they were driving my car, there was no error in the logbook despite all the pop-up messages. Then drove with a computer on passenger seat. During the message they saved data from the car. My dealer told me that they sent all data to Toyota Germany. So, I'm still waiting...

Sorry about my english, what means MIL and CEL?

Your english is fine, don't worry about it.

This is interesting, please report back what Toyota tells you.

Ammar Al-rijeb · Feb 26, 2022

Matt_O said:
Hi - from the south west UK.
I've had my RAV4 PHEV for couple of months now and twice in last week have had this warning message pop up twice now "Engine started to protect system. EV running unavailable"
Both times has occurred on motorway whilst in HV mode at speeds 70-80mph.
Normally I manually toggle to EV once leaving the motorway and speeds lower, but with this displayed the engine stays on.
I've got over 3/4 charge at the time.
The energy monitor shows the battery is contributing but I never get to the point where the engine switches off again - I've driven another 20+ miles/1/2 hr with engine still on when usually it would have toggled to EV. I've tried stopping the car , switching engine off and restarting and it still persists.
A bit annoying as I'm using fuel I don't need to.

Anyone else had this and causes/how to prevent?
Thanks in advance.

Ammar Al-rijeb · Feb 26, 2022

Today My car showed me same but I have noticed that’s happened when I changed charging currently from max to 16A could be this is the problem the car try to protect the battery maybe I ‘m gonna charge it today to see what happened after. Also I have some problems when the weather is to cold about-20 the preheating doesn’t work sometimes if someone has same problem? I scheduled departure at 7:15 every day like this I don’t need do it by myself but it works just when is charging I wanna know if someone has same problem?

jlawr1 · Feb 26, 2022

Ammar Al-rijeb said:
Today My car showed me same but I have noticed that’s happened when I changed charging currently from max to 16A could be this is the problem the car try to protect the battery maybe I ‘m gonna charge it today to see what happened after. Also I have some problems when the weather is to cold about-20 the preheating doesn’t work sometimes if someone has same problem? I scheduled departure at 7:15 every day like this I don’t need do it by myself but it works just when is charging I wanna know if someone has same problem?

It seems like you might get this error message when the outside temperature is so cold it makes the battery cold. When the battery is too cold, it doesn't work correctly and the engine might come on to help heat the battery. This is normal operation or your car. Nothing appears to be wrong.

Ammar Al-rijeb · Feb 26, 2022

jlawr1 said:
It seems like you might get this error message when the outside temperature is so cold it makes the battery cold. When the battery is too cold, it doesn't work correctly and the engine might come on to help heat the battery. This is normal operation or your car. Nothing appears to be wrong.

Thank you to respond but today wasn’t too cold about-4 but always the car has something one day side door doesn’t lock another day the trunk today was the Ev and also the preheating I don’t know this car is totally new.

2wheeler · Feb 27, 2022

Ammar Al-rijeb said:
Thank you to respond but today wasn’t too cold about-4 but always the car has something one day side door doesn’t lock another day the trunk today was the Ev and also the preheating I don’t know this car is totally new.

The electric heat pump that's used by the Prime to preheat the car and to provide heat to the cabin in electric mode wont' work below approximately -10C (14F)

Prodrivetim · Mar 2, 2022

Well, I have had my Rav4 PHEV for just over a month and this problem happened a few miles into my journey this morning. It wasn't freezing, nothing covering vents by rear seats and fully charged battery. I tried re-starting and it didn't solve it but locked the car and un-locked it which seemed to 'reset' and solve the issue? It's a shame, I have really been enjoying the car and the interaction between energy systems but this has damaged the confidence a little to be honest.I've suffered the anxiety of Subaru EJ engines for the last twenty years and was hoping Toyota would change that! Still got a twinscroll EJ20 on the drive - not sure which is less reliable now!

Engine started to protect system. EV running unavailable

2wheeler

DC to DC converter issue

Matt_O

jlawr1

Matt_O

iTim314

mililani

nickc72

Matt_O

Gottchi

Gottchi

Gottchi

jlawr1

nickc72

JetStream

Ammar Al-rijeb

Ammar Al-rijeb

jlawr1

Ammar Al-rijeb

2wheeler

Prodrivetim

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