Do most HV's have a problem with heating the cabin when it's below 15F outside?, or is it just the plug in ones?
Poor cabin heat at extremely low temps.
Steve NH
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In pure EV mode, the RAV4 Prime will struggle or fail entirely to heat the cabin. It uses a heat pump which has an effective operating low temperature of about 15ÂşF. At that point, it must use the engine's warm coolant to provide cabin heat with a conventional heater core.
Some EVs use resistor elements, which are very inefficient and drain the battery. The RAV4 Prime does not.
If you need heat below 15ÂşF, you only option is to switch to HV mode until you are warm enough, and/or use the seat warmers (and steering wheel heater if equipped).
Some EVs use resistor elements, which are very inefficient and drain the battery. The RAV4 Prime does not.
If you need heat below 15ÂşF, you only option is to switch to HV mode until you are warm enough, and/or use the seat warmers (and steering wheel heater if equipped).
I would imagine that Toyota HVs are not as likely to experience this issue since their engines run a lot more frequently than a RAV4 Prime. In the RAV4 Prime, the engine will run with heating demands and very low temperatures.
I think you may want to post this in the Hybrid, Non-Prime section of the forums.
I can't speak for Honda HVs.
15F isn't extremely cold. Refer to your owners manual regarding heat pump operation and the cold. The issue with no heat is just the Prime, should be fine with any other normal hybrid vehicle. But it's not really a problem with the Prime if you switch to HV mode and then back to EV mode.
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Ha! 15f not cold. You Canadians are funny.
Anyway, I thoiught it was 18f where the car would just start on it's own if one needed heat. Or it just starts no matter what. 15f is at the low end of performance for the heat pump, and the batteries.
Resistive heat is actually almost 100% efficient since virtually all the energy consumed is used to produce heat. The problem is that it takes a lot of energy to heat a cabin. What is 'waste heat' on an ICE is quite useful in the winter when trying to heat the inside of a car. I don't know the exact numbers but something like 40% of the energy produced by burning gasoline is waste heat in a normal ICE.
I agree 100% on the heat pump. They don't produce heat directly but only move heat from outside to inside. Unfortunately the mechanism in a R4P stops working at colder temps. At warmer temps, they move more heat than they take to operate so they use much less energy than a resistive heater.
I agree 100% on the heat pump. They don't produce heat directly but only move heat from outside to inside. Unfortunately the mechanism in a R4P stops working at colder temps. At warmer temps, they move more heat than they take to operate so they use much less energy than a resistive heater.
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Can confirm that my Hybrid will heat up just fine in sub-freezing temps, although it obviously takes longer the more temp delta there is. As long as the engine is running heat output is just like any other ICE vehicle and I can't speak from experience but I'd imagine most HVs are programmed similarly.
2021 Rav4 Prime XSE Pro Audio/Dynamic Nav/Weather Packages Build date: June 2021
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I don't think so. Sounds like you might be shopping for a car? If you have a R4P, or are considering one, the logical, effective, simple workaround for this is simply to immediately switch to HV mode after starting your ride in very cold temps, plus turning on the steering wheel and seat heaters. It's an opportunity to use up gasoline before it goes stale, and we're in EV mode ~90% of total miles thus far, so having gasoline go stale is a possibility. In fact, for all short drives (under 5 miles let's say) where the ICE nor resistive heater simply doesn't have enough time to contribute meaningful heat, we simply use the steering wheel and seat heaters and a good down jacket. Because of these simple to apply habits we continue to get 50 miles on a full charge, despite very cold temps near Denver this winter. Also, we are able to park in the garage where the lowest temps this year so far is about 26F, even when it's -5F outside.
We don’t see 15 degree temps here, luckily. In a really cold spell, we may see low 20’s, but that is rare. Still, my Venza will get heat to you more quickly than my wife’s R4 Prime, but the difference isn’t much. In our weather, they both warm up very quickly. I am surprised by how quickly my Venza does warm up.
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If you're in full EV mode and using the heat pump at 15F, it's probably going to be a tad weak because the heat pump's lower limit is about 11-12F--at that point, even the car will give up and use the engine for waste heat if you're actively driving. (If you're plugged in and charging in My Room Mode, that heat pump will keep trying all day long--if failing miserably below that 12F or so mark.)
In HV mode, I've had no trouble staying warm at colder temperatures. I've driven well into the negatives (F) with this vehicle and it's kept plenty of warm when using the engine to do so/and for motive ability.
In HV mode, I've had no trouble staying warm at colder temperatures. I've driven well into the negatives (F) with this vehicle and it's kept plenty of warm when using the engine to do so/and for motive ability.
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We have both RAV4 Hybrid and RAV4 Prime. Heating seems better on RAV4 Hybrid but when we run Prime in HV, the heating is just as good. In winter months (where temperature falls below 20F), we run our Prime in HV mode.
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I agree
We have 2 Rav4's also
If the Prime is in HV mode, its just as good as my R4H Limited.
In EV mode, it does struggle...
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EV & PHEV have gone to heat pumps to maximize batt life (EV miles). Heat pump will struggle to produce heat when it is very cold, but they are very efficient for AC.
Just put a PHEV, that uses a heat pump, into hybrid mode if you want heat QUICKLY.
Hybrid only vehicles won't have this issue due to lack of heat pump, at least for now.
Just put a PHEV, that uses a heat pump, into hybrid mode if you want heat QUICKLY.
Hybrid only vehicles won't have this issue due to lack of heat pump, at least for now.
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It's basically the compromise you get to keep the ICE off as much as possible. Along with the shortened EV range of any BEV/PHEV in very cold weather, some heat pump systems just don't live up to cold climate expectations that many buyers have, often based on standard hybrids or traditional ICE vehicles. I have some cold weather tips at the bottom of this update: RAV4 Prime: Long Term Update #2, Winter
Thanks...Good stuff.🙂
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No problem! I forgot to mention that our 3 HVs, a Prius, Insight and Highlander, all heat up about as quick in very cold weather as any typical ICE vehicle. The RAV4 Prime is much slower with the heat pump when it's well below freezing, and still seems a bit slower than our hybrids to warm up, even when you override the heat pump and force the ICE to be on.
Can't speak for hold/charge mode having any affect, but when the heated seat setting is on it's highest setting it will be linked to the A/C fan setting, and may be more effective:
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