I'm in the process of replacing the front brake rotors, pads, hardware, and slider pin boots/bushings on my 2012 rav 4, 2.5L. For the life of me, I can't wrap my head around how the wear indicators actually work? It doesn't look like anything would ever contact the rotor no matter how thin the pad gets. Also, can I just leave them off as the pads will never wear down before the rotors will again need replacing here in the rust belt. If they are not needed to hold the pads in place, I would like to leave them off.
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brake pad wear indicator questions
lacro
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I'm in the process of replacing the front brake rotors, pads, hardware, and slider pin boots/bushings on my 2012 rav 4, 2.5L. For the life of me, I can't wrap my head around how the wear indicators actually work? It doesn't look like anything would ever contact the rotor no matter how thin the pad gets. Also, can I just leave them off as the pads will never wear down before the rotors will again need replacing here in the rust belt. If they are not needed to hold the pads in place, I would like to leave them off.
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In my experience brake pads have both indented lines which give an indication of wear - when the indented lines disappear the pads should be replaced, and also when pads wear down to the practical limit of their life there is material built into the pad material which emits a screeching type of sound when the brakes are applied.
Useful info, but I am asking about the actual wear indicator hardware that is used on Toyota vehicles. The one shown in attached photo. It's a removeable stainless steel piece that clips onto each pad, both inner and outer. Somehow it contacts the rotor when the pad material reaches it's wear limit. I am just wonder how it actually works and if I can delete it?
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That piece of metal is the "squeal strip". Just before the pad runs out of material, the strip will contact the rotor during braking causing a high pitched metallic squeal alerting you of impending brake failure.
Sure, you could delete it? But then some poor muppet might never check the brakes and run them out.
Be no problem here in other parts of the workd, but I would hate to think of the legal liability of such action in the good old USA .
Sure, you could delete it? But then some poor muppet might never check the brakes and run them out.
Be no problem here in other parts of the workd, but I would hate to think of the legal liability of such action in the good old USA .
As far as I understand, those metal clips start scraping the brake disk when pad material worn to about 2 mm. I noticed when replacing brake pads and reattaching the clips, I'd bent them unintentionally. I used to bend them back little bit to make sure they have approximately correct gap to the brake disk.
Thanks guys for your input. I do understand the principle of how these indicators should work, but my inquiring mind just doesn't see how. The photo is my actual pad. It is 2 years old and it's destroyed from the rust on the rotors (also 2 years old). That's how it is in upstate NY where road salt and other chemicals are widely used on winter roads.
Looking at the photo, the pad material is on the left. when installing the pads into the bracket, the pad is installed left ward which forces the metal clip to the right. When the pad is fully in place the clip does not protrude toward the pad material at all. So - when brake material is worn down to 2-3mm there is nothing protruding to contact the rotor, hence my question: How do they actually work?? I could bend the clips so the they will protrude into the pad area, but that doesn't seem right as the clips should be pre-shaped correctly already without needing modification.
If I delete them, I'm concerned the pads may be loose in the brackets as the clips tighten the pads a lot. I had hoped to hear from someone that has left them off with or without success.
Looking at the photo, the pad material is on the left. when installing the pads into the bracket, the pad is installed left ward which forces the metal clip to the right. When the pad is fully in place the clip does not protrude toward the pad material at all. So - when brake material is worn down to 2-3mm there is nothing protruding to contact the rotor, hence my question: How do they actually work?? I could bend the clips so the they will protrude into the pad area, but that doesn't seem right as the clips should be pre-shaped correctly already without needing modification.
If I delete them, I'm concerned the pads may be loose in the brackets as the clips tighten the pads a lot. I had hoped to hear from someone that has left them off with or without success.
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You may be forgetting that the brake pad, retaining clips, and wear indicators all flex/move within the caliper. What you see with a pad not installed is not the exact representation of how it sits inside of the caliper, especially during braking.
Looking at your picture - look at the part of the wear indicator that's on the left side of the pad where it forms a little triangle.
That peak part of the indicator facing the rotor will be 2-3mm away from the pad backing plate.
So when the brake pad material is worn to that same 2-3mm or less (facing the rotor), the indicator will soon start producing the lovely metal on metal grinding sound when it makes contact. Draw a perpendicular line from that little peak in relation to the pad backing plate. Remove all the pad material on the left side of that line and now you'd have a representation of a pad that has gotten to the end of it's life.
Can you leave them off? Yes. Is it "bad practice" to do so? Yes. Are people driving around without them, properly installed shims, and/or retaining clips? Yes, lol.
They aren't hurting anything to install them and obviously only takes 2 seconds to clip them on, so I never saw the need to leave them off. It's good peace of mind and it also gives the next owner more confidence that the car was taken care of properly in the event you get rid of it.
Looking at your picture - look at the part of the wear indicator that's on the left side of the pad where it forms a little triangle.
That peak part of the indicator facing the rotor will be 2-3mm away from the pad backing plate.
So when the brake pad material is worn to that same 2-3mm or less (facing the rotor), the indicator will soon start producing the lovely metal on metal grinding sound when it makes contact. Draw a perpendicular line from that little peak in relation to the pad backing plate. Remove all the pad material on the left side of that line and now you'd have a representation of a pad that has gotten to the end of it's life.
Can you leave them off? Yes. Is it "bad practice" to do so? Yes. Are people driving around without them, properly installed shims, and/or retaining clips? Yes, lol.
They aren't hurting anything to install them and obviously only takes 2 seconds to clip them on, so I never saw the need to leave them off. It's good peace of mind and it also gives the next owner more confidence that the car was taken care of properly in the event you get rid of it.
Thanks for your explanation, but what I was trying to explain is the part of the clip that protrudes 3mm toward the left does not stay there when the pad is installed in the bracket. The clip is forced to the right when pushed into the bracket. Nothing is left protruding 3mm toward the pad material. The clip is very tight and impossible to move to the left. The only way it can work is if the clip is bent slightly so it does not get forced to the right when pad is installed, and leaves the 3mm protruding to the left. If you had it in your hands you would see what I mean.
As far as leaving them off in my case only, you have to understand that the pad material will NEVER reach 3mm before the rotors and pads will be replaced. The pad in the photo has less than a mm of wear, but has been destroyed by salt on roads causing severe rust on the rotors which ruins the pads. If you don't live in northern US or Canada it's hard to understand how severe this.
What happens when the road salt gets on the brakes is it causes rust jacking where the rust gets under the stainless steel retaining clips, and behind the shims. This rust jacking tightens the pad in the hardware stopping them from moving freely which usually wears one pad severely, destroying the rotor. The OE brake pads have 2 shims which quickly rot out and break off. Aftermarket single shim pads last longer.
The other thing that stops the pads from moving freely is the slider pins, boots and bushings. Water and salt will get into the groove in the bracket where the boots fit into. Again, this will cause rust jacking in the groove causing the boot to tighten on the slider pin hampering movement. Just removing the pins, cleaning the bores, re-greasing doesn't solve the problem. Cleaning the bracket boot groove, replacing the boots, checking the bore for rust, and cleaning or replacing the pins is required at least annually. Also, when replacing brakes pads, all rust must be removed from the bracket where the hardware seats. Sandblasting is best as it removes all rust. Permatex brake grease must be applied under the hardware to help prevent the rust jacking.
Anyway, I did install the clips. Now I need to break in the pads which involves accelerating to 30mph and braking down to 5mph, waiting for 30 seconds for cool down with foot off brake. repeat this procedure THIRTY TIMES!!!!
As far as leaving them off in my case only, you have to understand that the pad material will NEVER reach 3mm before the rotors and pads will be replaced. The pad in the photo has less than a mm of wear, but has been destroyed by salt on roads causing severe rust on the rotors which ruins the pads. If you don't live in northern US or Canada it's hard to understand how severe this.
What happens when the road salt gets on the brakes is it causes rust jacking where the rust gets under the stainless steel retaining clips, and behind the shims. This rust jacking tightens the pad in the hardware stopping them from moving freely which usually wears one pad severely, destroying the rotor. The OE brake pads have 2 shims which quickly rot out and break off. Aftermarket single shim pads last longer.
The other thing that stops the pads from moving freely is the slider pins, boots and bushings. Water and salt will get into the groove in the bracket where the boots fit into. Again, this will cause rust jacking in the groove causing the boot to tighten on the slider pin hampering movement. Just removing the pins, cleaning the bores, re-greasing doesn't solve the problem. Cleaning the bracket boot groove, replacing the boots, checking the bore for rust, and cleaning or replacing the pins is required at least annually. Also, when replacing brakes pads, all rust must be removed from the bracket where the hardware seats. Sandblasting is best as it removes all rust. Permatex brake grease must be applied under the hardware to help prevent the rust jacking.
Anyway, I did install the clips. Now I need to break in the pads which involves accelerating to 30mph and braking down to 5mph, waiting for 30 seconds for cool down with foot off brake. repeat this procedure THIRTY TIMES!!!!
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Those look bent. Should contact the rotor at about 40-30% of life left.
I rotate my tires seasonally and always check pad life. I wait till the very last moment to change mine out. Once you hit the metal backing plate your braking power goes to nothing and you know your pads are done. These are the OE rear pads on our RAV at about 130k. About perfect...
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OK.....I think I understand what you're saying now. I believe you're talking about installing that pad on the "outside" of the caliper right? What you describe will probably happen on some cars. Those screechers are made to be installed on the "inside" of the calipers, some cars it doesn't matter what side they are on. Try it there and see if it interferes with anything from doing it's job.
Most pads have those screechers attached/riveted to two of the 4 pads in a set. They aren't easily taken off. Some pads they have to be snapped onto the pad. I've used them before and not used them, no big deal. I inspect my pads every season when the winter tires go on and come off. You will probably never hear them work (screech) if you lubricate your slider pins and check your pads once a year.
If I didn't hit the nail on the head
show us a picture of your issue with the pad installed.Take Care
Actually on my 2012 Rav 4 I4 base there is a screecher on both inner and outer pad. These are clip-on type , not riveted to the pads. Can't really take a photo of what I am trying to show as the brakes are installed (with clips) and the lengthy (30 times) stop and go break-in procedure has been done. In my case the screechers are redundant as I mentioned earlier, the rest of the brake system will rot away before the pads ever reach 3mm, Also, not only do I disassemble my brakes annually to re-lube the sliders, my state has a required annual safety inspection. That inspection includes an actual measurement be taken of the pad material thickness which is visible through the caliper window.
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It's bent wrongly. You would not be able to install it properly like that. The pad has to be able to slide easily into the caliper brackets, otherwise it will "drag".
Yes, always clean those and put fresh brake grease on them (high temp resistant). Not normal grease!
Maybe they installed both of them on one wheel and the other has none.
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I've never seen scraper clips on all four pads. I've only ever seen them on the inner pads, but if they fit on the outer position, fine. Usually the inner pad wears out first, that's why they are put there IMO. If your sliders seize up, it's possible for the outer pads to wear first.
I've attached a few pictures of the pads I've used in the past. My sons Mazda6 needed some new pad hardware clips and we decided to buy new pads with the clips included as the clips alone were 1/3 of the cost. We'll keep the old brake pads and re use them in the future if necessary. As you can see, only two of the pads have clips which are riveted on. They go on the inside of the calipers/rotor and the scraper is on top. It may fit on the outside position as long as it doesn't interfere with anything else but again, the inner pad usually wears down first.
The other set of 4 pads I'm showing were taken off my 06 Corolla as I was chasing down an intermittent squeak when braking. I went with OEM pads to rule them out, but the noise still persisted. Ended up being a bad wheel bearing. Never had a "braking only squeak symptom" end up as a bad wheel bearing. Lesson learned.
These aftermarket pads had no scrapers at all on the pads or any snap on scrapers that came with the pads.
I think all OEM pads come with them riveted on and a fair amount of aftermarket pads come with them either riveted or have to be snapped on. Some obviously don't.
Like Sonic said, if the scraper interferes with any part of the pad moving in and out easily, it's a problem. Either try a new position on the caliper (inside /outside} or remove it.
Having an annual safety inspection is a good idea and checking the brake pad thickness is a part of that check. We have that also. Since I lubricate and inspect my brakes annually "before" I bring it for an inspection, (winter/summer tire change) I already know if the pads are done, or close to being done. Failure is usually 2-3 mm and I've had some garage clowns wanting to fail them at 5-6mm. Then once we talked, it was ok but then I was warned to come back in a few months or else they might be totally worn out and dangerous?? Garages try to pull that BS with people that don't ever pull their wheels off and it works on them.
Your pads will last a long time if you do the simple cleaning and lubing every year. My wifes 2017 Toyota Camry which we bought new, still has the original rotors and pads at 130,000 kms. The front pads still have lots of meat left too. I can't believe how long they are lasting even with 50/50 city highway driving.
Hope you have your brake situation taken care of......Take care
I've attached a few pictures of the pads I've used in the past. My sons Mazda6 needed some new pad hardware clips and we decided to buy new pads with the clips included as the clips alone were 1/3 of the cost. We'll keep the old brake pads and re use them in the future if necessary. As you can see, only two of the pads have clips which are riveted on. They go on the inside of the calipers/rotor and the scraper is on top. It may fit on the outside position as long as it doesn't interfere with anything else but again, the inner pad usually wears down first.
The other set of 4 pads I'm showing were taken off my 06 Corolla as I was chasing down an intermittent squeak when braking. I went with OEM pads to rule them out, but the noise still persisted. Ended up being a bad wheel bearing. Never had a "braking only squeak symptom" end up as a bad wheel bearing. Lesson learned.
These aftermarket pads had no scrapers at all on the pads or any snap on scrapers that came with the pads.
I think all OEM pads come with them riveted on and a fair amount of aftermarket pads come with them either riveted or have to be snapped on. Some obviously don't.
Like Sonic said, if the scraper interferes with any part of the pad moving in and out easily, it's a problem. Either try a new position on the caliper (inside /outside} or remove it.
Having an annual safety inspection is a good idea and checking the brake pad thickness is a part of that check. We have that also. Since I lubricate and inspect my brakes annually "before" I bring it for an inspection, (winter/summer tire change) I already know if the pads are done, or close to being done. Failure is usually 2-3 mm and I've had some garage clowns wanting to fail them at 5-6mm. Then once we talked, it was ok
but then I was warned to come back in a few months or else they might be totally worn out and dangerous?? Garages try to pull that BS with people that don't ever pull their wheels off and it works on them.Your pads will last a long time if you do the simple cleaning and lubing every year. My wifes 2017 Toyota Camry which we bought new, still has the original rotors and pads at 130,000 kms. The front pads still have lots of meat left too. I can't believe how long they are lasting even with 50/50 city highway driving.
Hope you have your brake situation taken care of......Take care
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That's 26k miles pe year. Probably lots of highway miles, not stop and go city traffic that can mean as little as 5k per year.
You can't compare one to another just based on mileage.
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735 Posts
Scraper clips? I don't think there is a part # as they come riveted to the OEM pads.
You can check Rock Auto for an aftermarket hardware kit and get what you need.
Take a look at this link: Toyota RAV4 Service Manual: Front brake - Brake It shows there are indeed 2 scraper clips per side (1 for each inner /outer pad) on Rav 4 front brakes, at least on my 2012. The OE original pads had 4 and aftermarket pads w/hardware come with 4. the clips are pre-shaped, and slip onto the pads. The OE and aftermarket clips are the exact same shape. None are bent out of shape. Your riveted clips look like a much better system and are easy to see how they work.I've never seen scraper clips on all four pads. I've only ever seen them on the inner pads, but if they fit on the outer position, fine. Usually the inner pad wears out first, that's why they are put there IMO. If your sliders seize up, it's possible for the outer pads to wear first.
I've attached a few pictures of the pads I've used in the past. My sons Mazda6 needed some new pad hardware clips and we decided to buy new pads with the clips included as the clips alone were 1/3 of the cost. We'll keep the old brake pads and re use them in the future if necessary. As you can see, only two of the pads have clips which are riveted on. They go on the inside of the calipers/rotor and the scraper is on top. It may fit on the outside position as long as it doesn't interfere with anything else but again, the inner pad usually wears down first.
The other set of 4 pads I'm showing were taken off my 06 Corolla as I was chasing down an intermittent squeak when braking. I went with OEM pads to rule them out, but the noise still persisted. Ended up being a bad wheel bearing. Never had a "braking only squeak symptom" end up as a bad wheel bearing. Lesson learned.
These aftermarket pads had no scrapers at all on the pads or any snap on scrapers that came with the pads.
I think all OEM pads come with them riveted on and a fair amount of aftermarket pads come with them either riveted or have to be snapped on. Some obviously don't.
Like Sonic said, if the scraper interferes with any part of the pad moving in and out easily, it's a problem. Either try a new position on the caliper (inside /outside} or remove it.
Having an annual safety inspection is a good idea and checking the brake pad thickness is a part of that check. We have that also. Since I lubricate and inspect my brakes annually "before" I bring it for an inspection, (winter/summer tire change) I already know if the pads are done, or close to being done. Failure is usually 2-3 mm and I've had some garage clowns wanting to fail them at 5-6mm. Then once we talked, it was ok
Your pads will last a long time if you do the simple cleaning and lubing every year. My wifes 2017 Toyota Camry which we bought new, still has the original rotors and pads at 130,000 kms. The front pads still have lots of meat left too. I can't believe how long they are lasting even with 50/50 city highway driving.
Hope you have your brake situation taken care of......Take care
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1,776 Posts
If it is a single or dual piston caliper with sliding halves, the piston side (inner) will always wear faster.
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2,441 Posts
Not true. The piston back is tied to the "other side" so the forces on both side pads are equal.
That's why is called floating caliper.
The only difference it might made, to the wear, comes from the bracket slides.
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