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Oil change for 2021 Rav4 Hybrid?

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53K views 93 replies 36 participants last post by  bahmcarl  
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#1 ·
I'm seeing the maintenance-required message now that odometer has passed 5000.
I've read elsewhere(?) that it is really not required until 10,000.
And whether to use synthetic or not.
Manual simply recommends SAE0W-16.
Please advise... and thank you for any guidance.

N.B.
So far this car has performed just fine, comfortable and good mpg (~44).
Right after purchase, I did replace tweeters and silenced the reverse noise maker!
 
#3 ·
Just my 2c... I personally think Toyota is doing a disservice to long term owners (including owners down the line if the car is sold)... 10K oil change intervals will certainly get you out of warranty without issues, and even the cheapest cars today are capable of 100K miles... But 10K seems awfully long time to be driving around with the inevitable residual machining particles from manufacture, and it doesn't help that Toyota's free maintenance won't change it until then. We know the previous generation engines had potential oil burning issues caused by clogged oil rings, which was "solved" by changing the engine to run on thinner oil (5W-20 -> 0W-20)... The piston and rings are virtually the same, it's just the thinner oil tends to clog less. The new generation engines are too new to have any real history of what may or may not be weaknesses. And just because oil analysis at 10K miles indicates the oil continues to have sufficient lubricating abilities does not mean that it's degradation has not caused it to possibly begin clogging the rings or other wear related to things beyond lubrication ability.

Personally, oil is cheap. I'm sure 10K oil changes will allow cars to last for the majority of owners who replace their vehicles every 5 to 7 years without any problems whatsoever. But if you plan on getting the absolute maximum out of your new car investment, it might pay off to change the oil more often than every 10K miles - it's cheap insurance.
 
#20 ·
The science proves light oil, 0w-16, and the accumulation of break-in particles over a 10k service limit is exceedingly safe, and will allow the engine to go 200k+ with no problems, nor the burning of oil.

The last thing Toyota wants is for their engines to have a reputation of not going the distance.

The problem is, people bring thier feelings into this question, greatly exaggerating the problems caused by swirling particles, 110F+ ambient temperatures, and the percieved loss of additive effectiveness.

Go with science, not subjective feelings, and your engine will be fine.

Excessive oil changes, are not only wasteful, but over the life of an engine shows that they’re not cheap.
 
#4 ·
I've been driving a 2012 Camry Hybrid since 47K and it now has 119,500 on it. I've changed the oil every 10k since I bought it in 2014. I'm getting ready to take it in for it's 120K tuneup in a couple of weeks but it's running like the day I got it and never burns a drop between changes. Synthetic oils and, more importantly, modern filtering mediums make it much less prone to problems. Our 2020 RAV4 Limited will get the same schedule once we're beyond the 2 yr. free ones.
 
#8 ·
hiawagee said:
I'm seeing the maintenance-required message now that odometer has passed 5000.
I've read elsewhere(?) that it is really not required until 10,000.
And whether to use synthetic or not.
Manual simply recommends SAE0W-16.
Please advise... and thank you for any guidance.

N.B.
So far this car has performed just fine, comfortable and good mpg (~44).
Right after purchase, I did replace tweeters and silenced the reverse noise maker!
Click to expand...
I was going to wait until 10k also. though I have a gas model. Anyhow at 6700miles my car shuddered starting up on day. It felt sluggish. So I got the oil changed and everything including acceleration felt so much smoother. Oil change is cheap just get one. I went to my local quick oil change place. 0w 16. I drive super aggressive and in a dusty environment. In the tropics.
 
I
#12 ·
Dealers make more from one engine or transmission rebuild then they do from 10 oil or transmission fluid changes. Oil and ATF are cheap. Service your car on the “severe service” schedule and you won’t have any issues. Back when Toyota had the sludging issues, people who maintained according to the severe schedule, had no issues.
 
#19 ·
LOL, I can't tell if that's a little snarky, like might as well just change it every week... Which for sure is even better.

But here's the thing - has anyone ever seen where Toyota has defined the expected life of their products? I'm quite sure they aim towards some minimum lifespan, and I'm also quite sure that's beyond their warranty period. If I had to guess (because that's all we can do), I'd bet it's around 150K. And I think factory service intervals will probably get you there. But I also think if you're aiming for more than that then that's where more frequent service intervals come into play.

It's also no secret that all car manufacturers are under pressure to make engineering decisions that improve fuel economy and decrease waste and emissions, and there is give and take on those as well. Not every fuel economy improvement also improves durability - in fact, I'd argue the opposite.

My '09 Honda got me to 335K and still had a very strong drivetrain - the suspension was pretty beat, but it still ran great. My '04 Toyota got me to 315K when I traded it in. I think most Hondas and Toyotas are capable of this with good maintenance. So - is that last 100K worth a few bucks? Or maybe you don't care because you're not going to keep it that long...

There's really no right or wrong on this topic, only what makes sense to you.
 
T
#22 ·
Coming to the Rav4 Hybrid from a 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid that we bought new and put 171K miles on it, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in on the Atkinson 2.5 engine and oil changes. In the 12 years 9 months we oved our Escape we did 18 oil changes, the first at 5K, second at 10K, and then every 10K. Why did we do the first at 5K, because I'm old school, and was taught by older school mechanics who learned in a time where new engines could have a lot of machining debris in them and dinosaur juice wasn't always to spec out of the can. When we traded the old girl in the Atkinson engine was still running like new and eating only about a 1/3 quart of oil every 10K miles. This same engine has been used in Ford Escape Hybrids through 2012, the Prius, and now Rav4, under normal conditions 10K oil change intervals are just fine. 115+ or 20 below driving will shorten intervals. So will beach driving, trails or rock climbing. But in the end, it is really up to you and your wallet, as Toyota's recommendation is the baseline minimum.

Thanks for reading my coffee fueled post. :D
 
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#26 ·
You know, the funny thing is that I am a science guy. Not to go off topic, but this almost makes me feel like an anti-vax conspiracist. I get it.

But I also know it took a lawsuit for Toyota to deal with the oil burning on the 2AZ engines, which affected many people following the factory spec OCI. So like any company, it's not like they always have your best long range interest at heart. And I suspect that government pressure to meet efficiency standards is a bit more than their concern for engines getting to 200K - it's probably not coincidence that the "fix" to the oil burning issue was basically switching to lighter 0W-20 oil, which just happens to also improve fuel economy (the pistons and rings are basically the same). The sales and compliance teams don't blindly let the engineers dictate every spec in any company - there's always some compromises made. So it's not possible to claim that what is specc'd is what the engineers agree is best, but more likely what is acceptable.

Really this topic probably only matters to people who plan on keeping their cars for the (very) long haul. To each his own. Following the science, nobody ought to purchase an extended warranty, either - statistically, they are rarely used. But they are popular for a reason.
 
#29 ·
The one last thing I will say is that Toyota seems to take a more 'static' approach towards fluid servicing, ie 10K OCI cut & dry... It doesn't appear much weight is put on variations in operating conditions other than a little blurb in the OM that I doubt most people read, let alone truly contemplate. I've never observed my local service dept inquiring about how the vehicle is operated... towing? Uber side job? 5 mile to the store and back every winter morning? All these things impact the service life of motor oil.

At least Honda's maintenance minder system used trip length and environmental conditions in calculating service intervals - My '09 CRV service light varied between 7.5K - 9.5K depending how the car was driven. That seems entirely reasonable to me.

I guess the argument could be made that Toyota's engineers calculated that 10K was a good average, and the oil was capable of 15K under optimum conditions.
 
M
#30 ·
Oil changes are cheap for me and if there are any issues it'll be out of warranty before it's noticed. The two class action lawsuits that Toyota previously faced for oil issues are because it took years for customers to notice and by then they were out of luck so litigation was the only avenue. The oil sludge issue was especially egregious as Toyota only agreed to cover damages to vehicles up to the 2002 lineage, but the complaint included 2003 to 2005 models but Toyota didn't agree to remedy those models as part of the settlement so those owners were out of luck. The only reason I changed my oil on my 2002 Highlander ahead of the recommended interval was because by 2003 rumors had started to swirl even though Toyota didn't acknowledge the problem until 2007.
 
#32 ·
I conducted my own 18 year experiment with several Rav4's. 2nd Gen 2004 Rav changed the oil every 5k miles with standard recommended oil ( not synthetic ). Drove the car 4 years to 125k miles before it was t-boned and totaled. Never burned oil throughout the life of the car. Purchased a new 2009 3rd gen and immediately switched to full syn oil, initially changing at 7,500k, bumped up to 10,000k between changes half way through ownership. At 130k it was t-boned as well and totaled, no oil burning issues. Purchased a 2014 Rav4 4th gen, decided to try15,000k between oil changes with full syn. Drove to 165k and the car burned about 1/2 qt of oil between changes. Traded the 2014 in on a 2019 Rav4H. Driving 30k miles a year, 5,000 mile change pattern is 6 oil changes per year ( I use to do my own and it's relatively cheap, but now have time constraints and have it done for me ). Probably stick with the 10,000k change for the hybrid because its not really 10,000k miles worth of wear and tear, engine not running at stop lights, in heavy traffic, and sometimes driving on battery only. I can make the 2mi trip to the grocery store from my home and the engine never comes on because its predominately slight downhill grade. If you drive 5,000k miles a year its no big deal to change your oil. 30,000k a year is a different story so I try to maximize the cost efficiency with longer intervals between changes within reason. I think I have proved to myself 15k between changes has very limited effect on the engine life or performance unless you are shooting for 200-300K ownership lifespan. I know some will be outraged and caution not to go 15k between changes but if you are keeping the car to finite age or mileage, say 10 years and/or 100,000k miles, I don't see the benefit of 5,000k changes except to the next guy that owns the car.
 
#33 ·
I would agree with you, although I would not go past 10,000 miles between changes. In our world, too much old school thinking, the every 3,000 mile thinking....science says otherwise...I have gone 10,000 miles per change (using synthetic oil) in over a million miles of driving in my life, and my cars never burned oil. I never change out the oil in new cars before the normal miles are driven, and oh my those teeny tiny particles swimming in the ocean of our oil never, ever did anything adverse to the longevity of the motors. The problem is that people make this an emotional decision, a decision of feelings, instead of relying on science, evidence, the owner's manual.
 
R
#39 ·
1) You can follow manufacturers recommended oil and change interval and have faith their years of research and testing are valid.
2) You can follow manufacturers recommended oil change interval and have oil analyzed by Blackstone Labs ($30) or equivalent and reduce change interval based on test results if required.
3) You can change your oil based on conjecture and hearsay by the armchair mechanics.
 
#40 · (Edited)
RobertB said:
1) You can follow manufacturers recommended oil and change interval and have faith their years of research and testing are valid.
Click to expand...
mww33458 said:
Actually if you read the settlement, Toyota maintains that there was no such engine flaw and that any such oil sludge problems are attributable to owners' abuse or poor maintenance habits. It specifically states that owners did not follow the maintenance schedule required for their driving habits.
Click to expand...
What they tell you, what they print in the documentation and what they mean are not always the same thing. It's up to you to interpret that, and it's your loss if you interpret incorrectly. If you read between the lines, the engineers recommended 5K intervals for most of the people who suffered engine failures... The owners just assumed the 10K intervals suggested (and possibly paid for) by the dealer service department was appropriate, when in fact it was not.

Again, this whole thing is probably only relevant to those planning on long term ownership (or the poor buggers that buy higher mileage used that have adhered to the 10K OCI's.)
 
C
#61 ·
mikefocke said:
Anyone had a used oil analysis (UOA) done?

T-SB-0104-21 speaks of gas blow-by into oil under cold conditions with short trips for '19-'22 hybrids. Examine your oil color and, if milky, see the dealer and refer to this T-SB.

Reported on another forum with a UOA confirming.
Click to expand...
Yes, I used oil analysis on my 2022 RAV4 Hybrid for the first oil change at 6K miles. I did the oil change myself and sent the sample to Blackstone Labs. My RAV4 does not get many short trips in it's daily life. It was cool the first couple months (Feb & Mar). Oil looked like it was almost new when I changed it. The lab report showed some extra metals from wear-in. Silicone and Molybdenum were much higher than the universal averages. Fuel in the oil sample was about 1/2 the universal average. The lab said I should expect to see progress with future oil change samples as the readings for my sample are typical for a brand new vehicle. I am sure glad I decided to change the oil myself, earlier than 10K at the dealer.
 
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#45 ·
I bought Camry Hybrid 2012, we changed oil every 10K miles, it had 143K miles without any issue so far or we did not see any oil burning issue. Recently I changed the spark plug DIY, I think if we drive in a normal manners then changing oil at 10K interval will make sense as Toyota dictated but if the car used for commercial purpose like Taxi or so then it will be different story.
Last year we bought a Rav4 hybrid 2021 and we are planning to do the Oil change at 10K as well. we saw in some post oil is cheap, it is not anymore, dealer charged $75 to $80 now, if you do DIY, it may cost little less but you might messed up your driveway and durity your hands too, LOL.
 
#46 ·
Any idea about RAV4 Hybrid 2021 and Camry Hybrid 2012 transmission oil change. Toyota said that transmission oil will be lost life of the vehicle but I do not believe it, we changed the transmission oil for our Camry at 100k and now thinking to do it again around 175K miles again.
Any idea? or suggestion?
The only question will come in minde, if something goes wrong with transmission after warranty expired then Toyota will be not responsible for anything. Transmission is sealed, we even can not check the level of oil or smell the oil or see its color.
 
#47 ·
Payendo said:
Any idea about RAV4 Hybrid 2021 and Camry Hybrid 2012 transmission oil change. Toyota said that transmission oil will be lost life of the vehicle but I do not believe it, we changed the transmission oil for our Camry at 100k and now thinking to do it again around 175K miles again.
Any idea? or suggestion?
The only question will come in minde, if something goes wrong with transmission after warranty expired then Toyota will be not responsible for anything. Transmission is sealed, we even can not check the level of oil or smell the oil or see its color.
Click to expand...
The Car Care Nut (certified Toyota Technician) goes through step by step on how to do it. It is pretty much fool proof on Hybrids with it being a drain and refill.

 
M
#57 ·
The car he is testing has a totally different drive train from a hybrid. His oil viscosity is different than the one recommended for our engines. His daily driving miles and speeds and starts and stops may be different from yours, it is certainly different from mine.

So how does this relate to the discussion of the oil change interval for a recent Toyota hybrid?
 
#65 ·
If you are looking for longest appropriate OCI for "your" Rav...you need to do oil analysis. Those analysis (more than one) should cover all seasons to address "most" temps and conditions a vehicle will go through.

"I" used to do long OCIs. But with premium oils and doing a proper testing pattern, changing filters at the middle...blah blah blah...its easier and more cost effective for "me" to just do 5k OCIs.

And there is no addictive/protection package in any oil that lasts forever.
 
#76 · (Edited)
Colonel said:
Some dealers will give you two. Period. Some dealers will.require 10k on odometer before changing.

I never took mine in. Its a marketing gimmick.
Click to expand...

Pretty much what my dealer said, they require 10k

I'm thinking at 5k, just request that they change it, my dime...

They can do all the changes at 10K their dime 🙂

I can remember 3k being the standard, and 5k being questioned 🤔

at any rate,,5k sounds about right....
for me...at this time...🙂


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