Going to attempt Installing Toyota Comfort+

Rob_mc_1 · Dec 30, 2023

Ok, I am now most of the way there. It is now too dark to work. I do not have a garage. At this point the remaining tasks are terminate wire at battery, splice wires at the trickle charger under the hood, mount the cabin heater and order a new cabin filter because it was dirty when I looked while I was there.

I confirmed the path.

The main challenge was little hole, big connector.

Where it stands now

Rob_mc_1 · Dec 31, 2023

It is now plugged in.

Both the Toyota and Defa apps work and can be open at the same time. The settings are stored on the device itself. The Defa app has an account creation and login screen but that appears pointless. I am going to leave both apps on. The best way to describe the difference is one is dark mode.

I left it alone and it appears to be working.

When unplugged the bluetooth module still gets power when unplugged. This is important to note because it is another item that can draw power from a weak battery. While it is nice to be able to trickle charge it in cold weather, if it sits unplugged for a longer period of time, it is another thing that could potentially kill the battery.

So far my wife approves. I sent her out in a sit test. She though it was nice and warm in there. that is not hard considering it is mild out.
Now I just need to keep an eye on the weather to find a way to get a fair test going.

veinless · Jan 1, 2024

Nice work!

Rob_mc_1 · Jan 1, 2024

veinless said:
Nice work!

Thank you!

Rob_mc_1 · Jan 1, 2024

One interesting quirk so far. I set the departure time for 7:35 am. This is for my wife's schedule. Because it is January 1, she is not working today. I got up at 8am to check on it rather then sleep in. It was nice and warm and the windows defrosted however it was still running. It did not turn off with the departure time. The concern is that on future holidays, if I were to sleep in, there would be an excessive waste of power. I have sent an email to Defa to inquire of this issue and to see how it is suppose to work.

On the plus side the app does show the current voltage level of the batter but only when it is not plugged in.

wscan · Jan 1, 2024

Rob_mc_1 said:
One interesting quirk so far. I set the departure time for 7:35 am. This is for my wife's schedule. Because it is January 1, she is not working today. I got up at 8am to check on it rather then sleep in. It was nice and warm and the windows defrosted however it was still running. It did not turn off with the departure time.

I would expect that they leave the heater on so that if departure is delayed by any amount, the car will not cool off during the gap between the departure time and actual departure. They probably use the departure time mainly to determine when to turn the heater on.

Rob_mc_1 · Jan 1, 2024

wscan said:
I would expect that they leave the heater on so that if departure is delayed by any amount, the car will not cool off during the gap between the departure time and actual departure. They probably use the departure time mainly to determine when to turn the heater on.

That is a definite possibility. Personally I'm ok if there is a departure delay timeframe. The only reason why I believe that the time specified is not the the start time is due to the way the schedule editor is laid out. Particularly the Auto function. While I can specify how long to run. the Auto function is suppose to monitor the temperature outside using the temp sensor. From there it is to estimate how long it thinks it takes to achieve its target temperature. If I were to specify 4 hours as an example. Once it achieves its target temperature, it ramps down to more of a maintenance temperature.

There is not much in the review section of the app. Toyota Comfort+ has reviews but they tend to complain about hub errors. The Defa and Lexus Comfort+ (Lexus is a 3rd color scheme) app have no reviews.

There is not too much information unfortunately. Ill post what I have generally found regarding the app.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/toyota.site.toyota-v5/tci-prod/toyota/media/pdf/707425-bluetooth-hub-user-manual-toyota-en.pdf

Toyota Genuine Accessories | Toyota Canada

Find the latest Toyota accessories and TRD parts for your car, truck or SUV online right here. Learn more about genuine auto Accessories from Toyota Canada.

www.toyota.ca

Some answers from their FAQ:
If the WarmUp slider is A) set to “TIMER” within a preheating time, and B) preheating duration is set to “auto”, the system may need som time to detect temperature conditions and decide weather to start heating. When the system is set to “auto” heating will only start if the temperature is below +10°C. This only applies when the slider is set to “TIMER” after a planned preheating period has started.
– There must be power in the outlet the cable is connected to. If there’s no power, or if the circuit breaker has been triggered, the system will not start.
– If the vehicle was driving at the time when heating should have started, that heating period will be cancelled.

Rob_mc_1 · Jan 14, 2024

A partial update. So far it has a wife approval rating. the windows are definitely clear and it feels warm when getting into it in the morning. It it snows it cannot have the snow cleared and it will still need to be brushed off.

Yesterday I installed an Emporia Vue in my panel and I was able to capture what it was doing. My A/C outside was reporting back an outdoor temp of -24C (-11.2F). the App for it pulls from accuweater and it was saying -26 so I trust the thermostat a bit more. To start with the Defa schedule is set to a departure time of 9:15 with an auto run time. The start time it chose was 5:57 am. It operated at 8.02 amps or 1034w at -24C. This means there is more head room as it has yet to achive its rated 1200w. It turned off at 11:15. So it stays on about 2 hours after departure time.

To make this information a bit more complete (Since feels warm is a bit subjective), my next step is to get a Govee H5179 to have a temperature graph over time to compare.

Rob_mc_1 · Jan 23, 2024

New update with initial Temperature Curve. I got the Govee yesterday. It was also a pretty good day to test as well. The Gove reported an outdoor temp of -10.1 when it started charging at 4:58am. The Air conditioner reported a temperature of -10.0 at 7:30 am when my wife left for work. The sensor was hanging off the rear of the driver seat head rest. This was to get a sense of what the driver would experience without any change of being in line with the heater itself. Even though it ran for 2h 32m , the Defa was still set to auto and will operated at about 1040 watts. The cabin was warmed up to 12.3c. Even though we unplugged it a few minutes before departure time, which is 7:35 am, the temperature in the cabin had risen to 12.3c by 7:31 with no sign of the temperature hitting a plateau.

At this point, I am curious as to how long until it evens out. Weekends are best for this but we are moving into warmer weather. This Saturday has a high of 0c and a low of -6 and Sunday a high of 2c and a low of -5c. This quite a bit different from the -25c last week. While running it at 0c is another data point I think is worth adding. I don't thing I need every temperature but 0c, -10c and -25 are probably good enough. I don't thing I will need any information in between. If it drops to -35 or lower I will include that as well.

Finally, this tread is a bit cumbersome. should I make a new thread with a summary? Would that be considered a duplicate thread? Also outside of my own curiosity and how few people probably are interested or would want Comfort+ would it be worth making a summary? Really all the information is in here.

Rob_mc_1 · Jan 24, 2024

Today, the starting outdoor temperature is -0.1c (Govee - 5:58 am) and ended with an outside Temperature of -1.5c (Lennox A/C - 7:29 am) and the cabin warmed up to 17.3c(7:32 am) in 1h 33m. Still no sign of leveling off. There was slightly less power draw at about 1030 watts. The lowest timer setting is 2 hours. Setting the timer to auto makes sense when around 0c. Sunrise is at 8:13 am this morning so I'm not surprised by a reduction of ambient temperature.

Rob_mc_1 · Jan 28, 2024

After the week where we hit -25c, and EV Mode would not engage, my wife noted that the engine was running a bit ruff at the start of the day. I had scheduled an appointment to install the block heater. For this it required an additional 3 parts. Only PK5A4-89J21 is new. I will edit the post above to correct it.

Part #	Name	Quoted (CAD)	Paid (CAD)	Notes
PK5A4-89J14	Block Heater	$ 120.00		200w
PK5A4-89J21	Cable		$ 45.00	from trickle charger to block heater
90119-A0429	Bolt		$ 1.00

There is a few things to note. Because the technicians at Toyota are not as familiar with Comfort+ this has led to incorrect statements from their tech given to me by their handler. Also if you already have the cabin heater installed, do everyone a favor and take it off timer and switch it to on. I have no idea how much time he wasted thinking the thing did not work. First I'll address the bill and expand.

First line is where it says the cabin heater is not properly installed. The argument was that I had the cabin heater plugged into the wrong port. I had to show the handler that the cabin heater goes into the primary port if there is no block heater.

They also claimed that Bluetooth is not working. We walked to the car after and I demonstrated that it works on my phone where it said it was unplugged, the outside temp and it worked. Obviously it worked for me because it is paired to my phone. I really should have asked them to remove those 2 lines. It was also mentioned that the trickle charger was to be installed under the fuse box. The funny part was when they asked me who installed is and if it was even a Toyota part as it is not listed as an optional accessory for my vehicle. I showed them the invoice where I bought it from them. It is funny because I left all the manuals in the Toyota parts box on the passenger seat in advance. At least the handle told me that on Monday, he will get the instruction as to how to mount the trickle charger for me.

Based on the the way conversations went, for those with Prime vehicles who want and can benefit from this system, the way I went about it was accidentally the correct approach to this. Toyota would never have installed it on this vehicle normally. One needs to DYI the trickle charger and cabin heater and then proceeding to have them install the block heater. Where they installed it never showed up on my research as where it goes. Also again not meant for my hands and not DYI friendly. Since I do not have a garage and there is snow on the ground I will not be looking bottom up. The picture and shacky cam footage will be from a top down perspective.

Hopefully this give an idea. In the pick my index finger barely touched it. it is on the front passenger side of the motor.

The block heater at only added about 150w draw this morning. The emporia app showed a draw of 1177w. Normally it is about 1030w.

Departure time on weekends is 9:15. It started to charge at 6:56 am with a start temperature of -7.6. At departure time, about 9:17, the outdoor temperature was -9.5c and the cabin temperature about 12.3c.

The big difference for today was I let it run. The temperature leveled out at 10:30 am. Since it auto shuts off 2 hours after departure time I thought it was interesting that the unit does one last hurrah 15 minutes before it shuts off ramping up the temperatures.

Either way at 11:15 it stopped at 17.2c in cabin with it being -7c outside. Also power output after departure time dropped by 50w. I have no way to account for the temperature leveling and final spike as this is not reflected in the power charts. I assume eternal temperature factors as I do not have an outside temp over time chart.

Rob_mc_1 · Jan 28, 2024

Okay, this is odd. I have no idea as to what is causing this odd temperature curve but it has repeated today. Again there is no change in power usage that is visible to explain the change. The only thing I can think of is that maybe it is turning off the block heater and redirecting the power in favor of the cabin heater. Departure is at 9:15am. About 10:20 the temp flattens out and at 10:50 it spikes before shut off. Power levels before departure are higher then after by about 50 but are consistent.

The only thing I can think of is to try it on another weekend with the block heater unplugged and see what happens. Also outside temp at 11:15 am is -3.5c

Rob_mc_1 · Jan 30, 2024

As a slight change of pace, I wanted to do some quick checks on the trickle charger. First I compared my 20 year old multimeter to the app. With the Defa unplugged from the wall and the car in ready mode, the app showed the battery at 14.24v and the app at 14.3v. When the car was just turned off the multimeter showed 12.43 and the app showed 12.5.

With the car off and Comfort+ plugged in, the head lights and tail lights when left on could still very slowly discharge the battery. The trickle charger could not keep up. Also in charge mode I only have the multimeter. the app only shows charging. I let the headlight drain the battery until about 12.1v. I closed the rear power door and waited a few seconds to turn off all the lights. Then I reopened the hatch and the lights stayed off.

I decided to take a short 28 second video while charging and it that time it went from 12.91v to 13.01v. I couldn't find a second section in the time stamp but at 9:25pm it was at 12.13v and at 9:43 it got up to 13.69v. From there it started to slowly discharge. I checked a few minutes latter and it was down to about 13.4v.

From what I can see is once the battery drops below a certain point it starts to charge and stops at about 13.7v. I do not know the threshold for when it starts to charge. The main thing is that it operates as a maintainer and does turn off when needed.

This operates as long as it is plugged in and not on a timer like the block heater.

When charging it operates at about 60w. It kicked back into charge mode when I went to close the rear hatch so it also detects power draw. It then seems to operate between 0 and 12w when not trying to charge. This was measured from my Emporia app.

Rob_mc_1 · Feb 16, 2024

Hi,
First off since I am the only one posting in here I hope this does not violate the thread bump rule. I think at this point I have all the useful data I'm going to get this season. Next week is getting warmer and it has been warmer then expected. At least this morning it was as close to -20c as could be expected. That mean I have numbers for 0c, -10c and now -20c and big round numbers make my brain happy even though that is not how temperature works.

Results:

Start Temp	Start Time	Departure Temp Outside	Departure Temp in Cabin	Time Unplugged	Departure Time	Start Time to Departure
-0.1°C (31.82°F)	5:58 AM	-1.5°C (29.3°F)	17.3°C (62.6°F)	7:32 AM	7:35 AM	1h 37m
-10.1°C (13.82°F)	4:58 AM	-10°C (14°F)	12.3°C (54.14°F)	7:31 AM	7:35 AM	2h 37m
-19.8°C (-3.64°F)	4:28 AM	-21°C (-5.8°F)	0.3°C (32.54°F)	7:35 AM	7:35 AM	3h 7m

Start Temp	Start Time	Departure Temp Outside	Departure Temp in Cabin	Departure Time	Outside Temp 2 hour After Departure	Cabin Temp 2 hour After Departure
-7.6°C (18.32°F)	6:56 AM	-9.5°C (14.9°F)	12.3°C (54.14°F)	9:15 AM	-7°C (19.4°F)	18.3°C (64.94°F)
-6.3°C (20.66°F)	7:15 AM		14.0°C (57.2°F)	9:15 AM	-3.5°C (25.7°F)	21.2°C (70.16°F)

Summery:
I think the biggest issue with this product is the lack of tuning in the temperature curve. Yes, it did increase the temperature by about 20°C. The duration of the heating did increase as the temperature dropped. But considering that the 1200W unit always ran at about 1000w and the fact that even though the timer can be manually set to 4 hours, the fact that at -20°C it still only got to 0°C is a bit disappointing.

Considering the temperature does not level out until about an hour after departure time with one last hurrah shows that it is not tuned with the departure time in mind, at least not in colder temperatures. The departure time needs to be set an hour before your actual departure time for -20°C. Setting it an hour early at 0°C is just a waste of power. This is where I wish I could modify the duration. Unfortunately I don't see that happening. I have tried to email Defa in the past with a question or 2 and I never even received an automated email in reply. I never bothered emailing Toyota (I don't have much faith in them on this).

I also cannot tell if there is a target temperature. Unfortunately with out the system only having a temp sensor outside the car zip tied to the frame and no temp sensor in the cabin is a bit of a limitation.

At about -20°C it did prevent some of the frost forming but since it didn't get much past 0°C the frost that did show up did not have a chance to fully clear. Since the temps were still rising, if given another hour, I do think it would have been a bit nicer inside and the windows would have cleared. I will post those temp graphs.

I understand that there was going to be inconsistency. It is heating a car in cold weather with only a thin piece of glass as insulation. But considering what this system is capable of and seeing the data make me appreciate that the entire issue with this product is a lack of communication, poor understanding of those who are to support it and software tuning. As for myself, on colder day in the future I'll know that I will need to adjust the auto time manually by tweaking departure time. Why? because Manual is 2h, 3h and 4 hour while Auto can do 3.5h and have an extra 2 hours after departure time. That is better then leaving it on continually. And that is messed up and blame Defa for this one.

Block heater can be skipped. It just adds 100W power usage.

cold · Feb 16, 2024

First of all, thanks for doing all this work and posting the results. I don't think I've ever seen such a thorough, complete series of posts in an automotive forum.

Fundamentally, I think having such a complex system as an optional add-in using outsourced parts rather than designed-in from the beginning is problematic, but hopefully it proves to be be reliable.

I am very impressed that you have done all the installation and testing with the vehicle outside. In the winter. In Canada.

Rob_mc_1 · Feb 18, 2024

cold said:
First of all, thanks for doing all this work and posting the results. I don't think I've ever seen such a thorough, complete series of posts in an automotive forum.

Fundamentally, I think having such a complex system as an optional add-in using outsourced parts rather than designed-in from the beginning is problematic, but hopefully it proves to be be reliable.

I am very impressed that you have done all the installation and testing with the vehicle outside. In the winter. In Canada.

I want to thank you for your kind words. But even this is still not complete and that is because the product itself is not complete and that is just do to software. This is exposed more when you think about non-hybrids and for those who are not driving about all day.

For example. I am using 1150w of power when plugged in. If this was parked for 8 hours at an office and someone wanted to plug it in so they can start the car, that circuit would have popped because the outlet in parking lots look just at block heater consumption. This can give others a hard time if they were relying on that outlet at work to start their vehicle. I assume that is why there is a power switch on the unit itself.

One of the things I emailed Defa about was asking about separating the block heater and Cabin heater in the app. I'm in ev mode until -12c. Below -12c I am stuck with the ICE running. That means the block heater is wasting power and I would like to leave the block heater off until lower temps. Also if the Block heater and Cabin heater had different schedules then I could say leave the block heater on whenever plugged in and keep the cabin heater on a departure schedule so that at work for example the heater wouldn't kick on.

As far as I can tell there isn't really a way to leave feedback about the app and I don't know if anyone is listening over there. Its a shame. This product is wife approved but I cannot recommend it unless someone understands the short cummings.

jari.koskela1 · Sep 7, 2024

Thank you Rob that You shared this adventure. I am in finland and winter is coming. There must be external cabin heater to get frozen snow away from windows. Temperatures are less than -14C weeks in winter. Defa and Calix are most used brands in motor heating and cabin heating systems. Toyota in finland is assembling Defa to toyota, not their own brand. Defa has two options for this cars motor heating, one is heating water and other is heated aluminium block that is assembled under car. I have this aluminium block. First plastics under car are removed and then aluminium block is clamped to some driveshaft holding bolt, with litlle bit longer bolt that comes with Defa heater and clamp arm. I am very much DIY person and there is not much information how to route inner heaters cable, through motor sides firewall. I noticed same rubber grommet that you passed. I wonder where that ends cabin side. It must be somewhere behind air condition blower and filters. I think that those air condition parts are almost impossible to remove a side. Is there any possibility to get whole cabin heater extension cable with metal panzar and plug, through to cabin by modifying rubber grommet ?

Rob_mc_1 · Sep 10, 2024

jari.koskela1 said:
Thank you Rob that You shared this adventure. I am in finland and winter is coming. There must be external cabin heater to get frozen snow away from windows. Temperatures are less than -14C weeks in winter. Defa and Calix are most used brands in motor heating and cabin heating systems. Toyota in finland is assembling Defa to toyota, not their own brand. Defa has two options for this cars motor heating, one is heating water and other is heated aluminium block that is assembled under car. I have this aluminium block. First plastics under car are removed and then aluminium block is clamped to some driveshaft holding bolt, with litlle bit longer bolt that comes with Defa heater and clamp arm. I am very much DIY person and there is not much information how to route inner heaters cable, through motor sides firewall. I noticed same rubber grommet that you passed. I wonder where that ends cabin side. It must be somewhere behind air condition blower and filters. I think that those air condition parts are almost impossible to remove a side. Is there any possibility to get whole cabin heater extension cable with metal panzar and plug, through to cabin by modifying rubber grommet ?

Hi.
Thank you for your kind words. This adventure is not 100% yet. I just have not been focused on it.

Yes. That rubber grommet is a clear path behind the glove box. Post 21 has those pictures. The first is the red wire to the battery and the second picture is direct line of sight to the firewall inside. When i removed the glove box i was looking right at it. The only thing blocking it was a circar piece of insulation against it that can be poped back in.

In the picture with the personal lubricant, right behind it i taped the extension wire to the cabin heater. I used it as a cable greese to slide the wire in. It was a tight fit but is did go in.

jari.koskela1 · Sep 11, 2024

Thank You

your pictures helped me and my project is ready now. Worst part was to get that armored cable through firewall. I was trying to widen opening to rubber grommet. It pop out to engine side and then I continue to modify it with a razor plate (other sharp side of razor plate taped). I was frustrated and ended to almost acceptable result, that is shown in picture

Inlet was easier, but I did one small extra hole.

Motor heater was easy. It can be assembled through same plastic hatch that is used for oil draining and oil filter change. Down in picture is oil draining bolt. Aluminium heater has opposite form of motor and it can not be assembled wrong way- Defa heater packet has also heat transfer paste tube.

Then I had lot of extra armored cable and I piled wire somewhere.

My car melting system has been over 10 yard that I plug in heating cable advanced to car and put several heater from passenger sides foots to passengers seat pointing to wind shield. i have switch inside and I look from the window if car is ready and snow is melting that it can be easily brushed away. I use two 1400W heater and max. power is about 2800W, but if weather is warmer then I use only one heater or but heaters to half power position.

Finish forum that has gathered RAV owners has find out that blocking cooling grille in winter time makes sense. Old time people used cardboard and results was funny and that habit was forgotten. Rav motor takes a lot gas while it is cold, before it warms up. Now as motor stays warm longer, you get longer heat inside, and you are able to drive more with EV mode. It is not nice to have almost full driving battery and burn gas.

Picture below commercial rav4 plug in cooling grill cover. Honestly it is ugly as hell, but i will buy that.

Regards Jari

Rob_mc_1 · Sep 12, 2024

jari.koskela1 said:
Thank You

your pictures helped me and my project is ready now. Worst part was to get that armored cable through firewall. I was trying to widen opening to rubber grommet. It pop out to engine side and then I continue to modify it with a razor plate (other sharp side of razor plate taped). I was frustrated and ended to almost acceptable result, that is shown in picture
View attachment 209512

Inlet was easier, but I did one small extra hole.

View attachment 209513

Motor heater was easy. It can be assembled through same plastic hatch that is used for oil draining and oil filter change. Down in picture is oil draining bolt. Aluminium heater has opposite form of motor and it can not be assembled wrong way- Defa heater packet has also heat transfer paste tube.

View attachment 209514

Then I had lot of extra armored cable and I piled wire somewhere.

View attachment 209515

My car melting system has been over 10 yard that I plug in heating cable advanced to car and put several heater from passenger sides foots to passengers seat pointing to wind shield. i have switch inside and I look from the window if car is ready and snow is melting that it can be easily brushed away. I use two 1400W heater and max. power is about 2800W, but if weather is warmer then I use only one heater or but heaters to half power position.

Finish forum that has gathered RAV owners has find out that blocking cooling grille in winter time makes sense. Old time people used cardboard and results was funny and that habit was forgotten. Rav motor takes a lot gas while it is cold, before it warms up. Now as motor stays warm longer, you get longer heat inside, and you are able to drive more with EV mode. It is not nice to have almost full driving battery and burn gas.

Picture below commercial rav4 plug in cooling grill cover. Honestly it is ugly as hell, but i will buy that.
View attachment 209516

Regards Jari

Glad to see your work. I haven't actually scene the block heater for it before.

I completely forgot about car grill covers. Shame there are limited options for the RAV4. I'll have to keep a bit of a look out for them.

Part #	Name	Paid (CAD)	Notes
PK5A4-89J14	Block Heater	$ 120.00	200W
PK5A4-89J21	Cable	$ 45.00	From block heater to trickle charger
PK5A4-89J22	1.5m Armored Extention Cable	$ 35.00	Extend length to cabin heater to trickle charger
PK5A4-89J30	0.8m Armored Inlet Cable	$ 45.00	From bumper to trickle charger or block heater (if it is on its own)
PK5A4-89J40	2.5m Home Power Cord	$ 45.00	Wall outlet to car
PK5A4-89J50	+12V Battery Charger and Straight Bracket	$ 190.00	Trickle charger
PK5A4-89J60	Bluetooth Hub	$ 190.00	Optional, This communicates with the app
PK5A4-89J70	Cabin Heater	$ 235.00	1200W
90119-A0429	Bolt	$ 1.00	To secure block heater

Going to attempt Installing Toyota Comfort+

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