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Tips on getting the most out of my 40 EV miles

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gmpnashville

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I just recently bought a Rav4 prime XSE and am interested in getting close to 40 miles on electric only. I need to know what settings to use. ECO or Normal? Press Auto button? Anything else? The other day I traveled 5 miles and came back home. This was 10 miles total and it showed up going do from 39 to 29 for EV miles available, which is expected.

Yesterday I went 20 miles and it completely used the 39 miles listed for EV. In other words I got 20 miles not 39 from EV. It was at zero EV at my destination. I was in a hurry and used the XPressway for 90% of the journey. I went around 80 MPH some and fluctuated between 65 and 80. I know the faster speeds are not good on electric only, but I didn't know they would be that bad. So I think my settings must be off some.

I'm also confused about the Dashboard screen info. On the left top it says Total average miles/kWh 2.9 and below it right now it has a horizontal line scale saying 0 miles/kWh. It's fully charged and says 38 miles EV. I know when I start driving this lower scale will change from 0 miles to I suppose whatever my driving habits have it guess what my miles/kWh are.

Later after I run out of electric miles the same view changes from miles/kWh to MPG. It usually starts around 85 MPG and slowly goes down to around 65 MPG. I would appreciate any explanation of these miles/kWh and MPG numbers and how best to adjust my settings so when I do this journey next Sunday I'll get better use of my 38 miles of EV
 
#2 ·
90 miles an hour?? When fully charged I get 51-51 EV miles and my miles per KWh fluctuates between 2.4-2.5mi/KWh. I frequently check my eco driving score which evaluates my acceleration, stopping and cornering which all bear on EV mileage. In the app, I check my trip ratings which are typically “Excellen.” My wife’s are “Good”to “Excellent” but we are working on that. The other element that can influence EV mileage is temperature. The lower the temperature the less likely the battery will reach full charge, and it will drain somewhat quicker and you will use more heat which in EV mode will reduce range. On the open highway, switch to hybrid mode, on the offramp return to EV for stop and go city driving. Keep the system in eco mode. Also, consider buying a Porsche for highway driving; save the Prime for the suburbs. HaHa
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
The speed limit is 70 MPH and the police will not stop you unless you're more than 10 miles over, so 80 MPH is fine here.
How do you get 51-51 EV miles when fully charged? The temperature has been 50-70 degrees so that's not an issue and the car is in our garage all the time.

There's an Auto button near the gear shift. I understand that is to let the car decide whether to use EV mode or Hybrid mode. I'll go ahead and keep the system in eco mode not Normal mode. I had it in Eco mode when I got the not so good EV miles of only 20 instead of 38 and also had the Auto button off.

I thought it automatically chooses the EV mode for stop and go city driving. Is there a way to tell it to be in either EV mode or Hybrid mode or gas only mode?
 
#4 ·
The closer to 40-50mph you drive the better your range will be, that seems to be the sweet spot. Combination of air resistance increasing nonlinearly and electric motor being less efficient at higher RPMs. It makes a big difference driving 65 vs 80. What you're seeing can probably be attributed to that.

I managed to get about 2-3% better efficiency by overinflating the tires by a few PSI but the ride was too harsh so I dropped back down to factory PSI.

Eco just changes the pedal response AFAIK. So if you drive normal/sport but keep a very light foot and accelerate slowly it's the same.

The MPG after you run out of EV range is useless, it factors the miles you went as completely free. If you want it to be accurate, reset the counter after you run out of EV range.
 
#5 ·
Eco is also more likely to let you glide than to force the regenerative braking. If you aren’t planning on stopping soon then a glide is more effficient that slowing down and the using the battery to reaccelerate. So Eco is more efficient, including when in hybrid mode.

in terms of using EV vs. hybrid it depends on your electricity vs gasoline costs. You are less efficient going 80 mph whether on gas or electric but people don’t seem to fret as much about losing gas miles on the highway vs city than EV miles.

The simplest method I have found is that if my trip is within the EV range (I mentally deduct some miles if planning to use the highway) then just use EV. If EV will not be enough then it’s better to use the hybrid while on the highway. Not saying not to use EV on the highway - just that when you are going to use hybrid you’ll get better gas mileage on the highway than gas mileage on city roads. Just make sure you return with zero EV miles at the end of your trip.

For example, if you have a 50 mile drive that breaks down as 5 city, 40 highway and 5 city. I would start in EV and let it run down till I had 5 miles estimated ev range left. This will probably happen around mile 30. Run hybrid for the remaining highway and then back to EV for the last few city miles. Alternatively, you can just get in the car and drive and it will switch over for you when it runs out. It won’t be all that different.

I’m sure someone will also come on to say that when you run in hybrid to make sure that the engine runs long enough to fully warm up…
 
#6 ·
PrimerRhymer said:
Eco is also more likely to let you glide than to force the regenerative braking. If you aren’t planning on stopping soon then a glide is more effficient that slowing down and the using the battery to reaccelerate. So Eco is more efficient, including when in hybrid mode.

in terms of using EV vs. hybrid it depends on your electricity vs gasoline costs. You are less efficient going 80 mph whether on gas or electric but people don’t seem to fret as much about losing gas miles on the highway vs city than EV miles.

The simplest method I have found is that if my trip is within the EV range (I mentally deduct some miles if planning to use the highway) then just use EV. If EV will not be enough then it’s better to use the hybrid while on the highway. Not saying not to use EV on the highway - just that when you are going to use hybrid you’ll get better gas mileage on the highway than gas mileage on city roads. Just make sure you return with zero EV miles at the end of your trip.

For example, if you have a 50 mile drive that breaks down as 5 city, 40 highway and 5 city. I would start in EV and let it run down till I had 5 miles estimated ev range left. This will probably happen around mile 30. Run hybrid for the remaining highway and then back to EV for the last few city miles. Alternatively, you can just get in the car and drive and it will switch over for you when it runs out. It won’t be all that different.

I’m sure someone will also come on to say that when you run in hybrid to make sure that the engine runs long enough to fully warm up…
Click to expand...
If you switch to HV the engine stays on for a little bit even if you immediately switch back to EV, probably for the health of the engine.
 
#7 ·
hahncholo said:
If you switch to HV the engine stays on for a little bit even if you immediately switch back to EV, probably for the health of the engine.
Click to expand...
Right - I was thinking more if you let it kick on automatically as you pull in the driveway. Try to avoid that. But once the engine starts it will try to warm itself all the way up before switching back to full EV mode.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Aren't there just 2 controls? The auto button and the knob which you use for EV, sport, or normal modes? Turn knob to choose EV or sport - choose EV - wait - now you see EV in the top middle of the dashboard screen - it's in the EV mode.
Push button to choose normal - wait, now you see EV in the top middle of the dashboard screen disappear. We're in the Normal mode

The auto button turns it into the automatic mode where it goes from EV to HV depending on my driving conditions, you see auto EV/HV on lower right of screen, press the button again to go to the EV mode and see the icon change to EV mode

if the battery says miles at 0, then it can't go into the EV mode, you see HV mode. If I want to force it to go into the HV mode while the battery is charged, is there a way to do this? For instance next Sunday when I do the same drive, in a hurry going as much as 80mph, can I force it into the gas mode or HV mode, so I don't deplete my electric miles so fast?

Or should I hit Auto (the EV/HV button)? And what about the knob? Should I leave it on EV mode or should I set it to Normal?
 
#9 ·
gmpnashville said:
Aren't there just 2 controls? The auto button and the knob which you use for EV, sport, or normal modes? Turn knob to choose EV or sport - choose EV - wait - now you see EV in the top middle of the dashboard screen - it's in the EV mode.
Push button to choose normal - wait, now you see EV in the top middle of the dashboard screen disappear. We're in the Normal mode

The auto button turns it into the automatic mode where it goes from EV to HV depending on my driving conditions, you see auto EV/HV on lower right of screen, press the button again to go to the EV mode and see the icon change to EV mode

if the battery says miles at 0, then it can't go into the EV mode, you see HV mode. If I want to force it to go into the HV mode while the battery is charged, is there a way to do this? For instance next Sunday when I do the same drive, in a hurry going as much as 80mph, can I force it into the gas mode or HV mode, so I don't deplete my electric miles so fast?

Or should I hit Auto (the EV/HV button)? And what about the knob? Should I leave it on EV mode or should I set it to Normal?
Click to expand...
the button to the right of the auto mode is the dedicated EV/HV toggle.
 
#10 ·
Eco, normal and sport are driving styles ie sport quicker when you step on the accelerator and more responsive regenerative braking and eco is less.

Separate from that you can choose the drive train - electric or hybrid. The choices are EV, hybrid and auto EV. Auto EV is basically just EV but if you hit the accelerator hard enough it may trigger the gas to turn on to assist. I haven’t seen anyone here that has said they ever have used that. It’s generally just EV or Hybrid. The car defaults to starting in EV if there is sufficient battery and switches over to hybrid or you can force one or the other. You can see what mode you are in on the dash.

There is also “Charge Mode” but just think of that as gas for now. Lots of threads on here you can look at to see people argue about why Toyota would give us that and whether it’s actually useful.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
hahncholo said:
the button to the right of the auto mode is the dedicated EV/HV toggle.
Click to expand...
On my XSE to the right of Auto is labeled - HV/EV CHG Hold. Instead of an EV/HV toggle, I thought it was this:

Charge Mode:
Run the gasoline engine at all times and usually at a higher RPM than power demand requires in order to charge the battery. This mode is not available when the traction battery’s state of charge is approximately 80% or higher.

I'm confused, is this the EV/HV toggle?

:
 
#13 ·
gmpnashville said:
On my XSE to the right of Auto is labeled - HV/EV CHG Hold. Instead of an EV/HV toggle, I thought it was this:

Charge Mode:
Run the gasoline engine at all times and usually at a higher RPM than power demand requires in order to charge the battery. This mode is not available when the traction battery’s state of charge is approximately 80% or higher.

I'm confused, is this the EV/HV toggle?

:
Click to expand...
It is. It means "Hold" the button to put it into charge mode. If you tap the button it switches between HV and EV (only goes to EV if there is some range in the battery, otherwise you'll get a message).
 
#14 ·
gmpnashville said:
On my XSE to the right of Auto is labeled - HV/EV CHG Hold. Instead of an EV/HV toggle, I thought it was this:

Charge Mode:
Run the gasoline engine at all times and usually at a higher RPM than power demand requires in order to charge the battery. This mode is not available when the traction battery’s state of charge is approximately 80% or higher.

I'm confused, is this the EV/HV toggle?

:
Click to expand...
As Chuckles as mentioned, that is it.

Yes, the button is confusing, and there are some videos that point out what it means if you search about it, which is basically, a long hold push on it to make the HV kick in and charge the battery, but as you also quoted, it won't bother if the battery is at 80% or better charge state.

Some recommendations have been to make use of CHG Hold when battery is low before hitting a long upclimb to get the battery up to help assist get the car up and lessen the load on the engine as an example.

A Prius Prime user suggested also using the toggle to go to HV on initial 'accelerations' on long comutes, to get the car up to speed, then switch to EV so the EV uses less battery power to 'get to speed', improving your EV range on the battery as maintaining speed is less costly on the battery than 'getting up to speed' in comparison.

And lastly, some say it is always good to occasionally use the ICE to keep the fuel pump in good condition and not have gas in the tank go 'stale'.
 
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#15 ·
hahncholo said:
The closer to 40-50mph you drive the better your range will be, that seems to be the sweet spot. Combination of air resistance increasing nonlinearly and electric motor being less efficient at higher RPMs. It makes a big difference driving 65 vs 80. What you're seeing can probably be attributed to that.

I managed to get about 2-3% better efficiency by overinflating the tires by a few PSI but the ride was too harsh so I dropped back down to factory PSI.

Eco just changes the pedal response AFAIK. So if you drive normal/sport but keep a very light foot and accelerate slowly it's the same.

The MPG after you run out of EV range is useless, it factors the miles you went as completely free. If you want it to be accurate, reset the counter after you run out of EV range.
Click to expand...
The "Sweet Spot" for maximizing EV miles is much closer to 20-25 mph not 40-50mph. If you want to get more EV miles Drive at slower speeds. Freeway speeds kill EV miles. We just don't notice it as much with ICE as it's already incredibly inefficient. If it's important use your EV miles efficiently and have a high number on the GOM (guess-o-metre) then run in HV mode when on the freeway. If you just want to get from a to b then operate however you like.

If you're operating the vehicle in cold conditions (below 40F) or very hot condition the battery will be drained by the AC unit. When it's very cold (15F) you'll lose about 6 miles range to the heater. You can turn off the AC and see what your predicted range is without heat/cool
 
#16 ·
2wheeler said:
The "Sweet Spot" for maximizing EV miles is much closer to 20-25 mph not 40-50mph. If you want to get more EV miles Drive at slower speeds. Freeway speeds kill EV miles. We just don't notice it as much with ICE as it's already incredibly inefficient. If it's important use your EV miles efficiently and have a high number on the GOM (guess-o-metre) then run in HV mode when on the freeway. If you just want to get from a to b then operate however you like.

If you're operating the vehicle in cold conditions (below 40F) or very hot condition the battery will be drained by the AC unit. When it's very cold (15F) you'll lose about 6 miles range to the heater. You can turn off the AC and see what your predicted range is without heat/cool
Click to expand...
This is correct, for the best efficiency and range, slower is better. Aero drag increases exponentially with higher speed.

Also, the ev range "loss" on the guess-o-meter from the hvac is just a rough computer estimate. On our rav4P, the estimated loss is the same whether we use the heat, the cooling, or we just use simple fan-only ventilation. But, in reality, the actual loss is not the same for those three different settings.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Keiichi25 said:
As Chuckles as mentioned, that is it.

Yes, the button is confusing, and there are some videos that point out what it means if you search about it, which is basically, a long hold push on it to make the HV kick in and charge the battery, but as you also quoted, it won't bother if the battery is at 80% or better charge state.

Some recommendations have been to make use of CHG Hold when battery is low before hitting a long upclimb to get the battery up to help assist get the car up and lessen the load on the engine as an example.

A Prius Prime user suggested also using the toggle to go to HV on initial 'accelerations' on long comutes, to get the car up to speed, then switch to EV so the EV uses less battery power to 'get to speed', improving your EV range on the battery as maintaining speed is less costly on the battery than 'getting up to speed' in comparison.

And lastly, some say it is always good to occasionally use the ICE to keep the fuel pump in good condition and not have gas in the tank go 'stale'.
Click to expand...
Yes this is very confusing, but when you look at how the button is labeled you do see the logic
HV/EV
CHG Hold
The top part is telling you it's a toggle between HV/EV and if you want to use the ICE to charge the battery you hold the button. I'm so glad this was finally explained. Now I understand why it did so badly using the EV mode at 80 mph.

So if I'm driving in the city at slower speeds, use the EV mode with the toggle and if I am using highway speeds over 50, use HV mode? Should I do this manually and forget about using the Auto mode, which is probably supposed to do what I just said automatically? Should I just leave it in ECO mode and not use Normal? My goal is to get as much out of the EV miles as I can.
 
#18 · (Edited)
There are some good recommendations, but there are no "hard" answers to your questions. If I was going on a short trip (way less than 40 miles) even with some freeway driving, I would certainly leave it in EV mode and then just charge back up when I got home. Also, the computer estimate is based on slower speeds because, at 60-70+mph, you won't get 40 miles of EV range, as energy consumption per mile is extremely high at those speeds. So, if I was going on a longer trip, I would use EV initially at the slower speeds on local streets and then use HV mode (after warming up the ICE) on the expressways/freeways when the engine would be running entirely or mostly continuously at fairly high output. (However, I would go back to EV mode temporarily if it became slow or stop/go traffic on the freeway.) Then, after the fast expressway/freeway segment of my trip, I would return to EV mode when I got back to slower surface streets. This is likely the most efficient way to use the rav4P, but, as always, YMMV.

Don't use charge mode unless you (1) don't have access to grid power and (2) need to have a full battery for some reason (camping, needing to push the total range of the car because of a lack of gas stations, entering an EV-only city area, etc.). Charge mode is definitely convenient in those cases, but 99.9% of the time, it will never give you better efficiency than using EV mode (electricity from the grid) and HV mode as described above.
 
#19 ·
gmpnashville said:
Yes this is very confusing, but when you look at how the button is labeled you do see the logic
HV/EV
CHG Hold
The top part is telling you it's a toggle between HV/EV and if you want to use the ICE to charge the battery you hold the button. I'm so glad this was finally explained. Now I understand why it did so badly using the EV mode at 80 mph.

So if I'm driving in the city at slower speeds, use the EV mode with the toggle and if I am using highway speeds over 50, use HV mode? Should I do this manually and forget about using the Auto mode, which is probably supposed to do what I just said automatically? Should I just leave it in ECO mode and not use Normal? My goal is to get as much out of the EV miles as I can.
Click to expand...
Yea, no matter whether you use EV or HV, high speeds will hammer your overall range (Be it Electric or Gas) as you are demanding it to work harder.

And like the age-old debate about Manual and Automatic Transmissions, the Auto EV/HV or doing it manually will be based on conditions and where you will apply it. I found that manually toggling it, you get a slight more sense of 'knowing' when you are getting the most out of it. But again, YMMV.

As for the Eco/Normal/Sport mode - That is just affecting the acceleration curve when you press the pedal.

Think of it this way:
  • Eco - Less aggressive, so when applying the accelerator, it doesn't give a lot of power initially.
  • Normal - Standard acceleration.
  • Sport - More aggressive, applying more power initially.
So, stealing from PriusChat to give you a rough idea:
Image


In the end, when the pedal is 'to the metal', it all ends up the same, the only difference is how much is applied before reaching the max acceleration.

If you look at videos on how fast the R4P gets from 0-60, it is based on the modes. On Eco, with the lower acceleration to conserve how much power is used to get to 60, it takes roughly 8 seconds.

In Sport Mode, with the aggressive acceleration, it gets to 60 in about 5.5 seconds (2nd fastest Toyota, beaten by the Supra)

These modes are for 'the feeling' you want. In the case of Sport mode, based on acceleration want, it will kick in both ICE and EV to push for the 302 HP to get to the desired speed, but obviously, by pushing both, you are using up MPG and EV range you would have had in comparison to say normal or eco, but it will feel like you are launching a fighter off a carrier deck (so to speak). But even in eco, you can drop MPG/EV range doing 'pedal to the metal' because the demand is about the same, so to speak, just takes longer to get to that speed you want.

The thing about getting the most EV out of the battery is just how much demand you put it through. The old Prius way of getting the most MPG probably applies here with the Prime. Pulse and glide.

Pulse and glide method is just get the car to the about the speed you want it, then let off the accelerator. Resist the urge to gun the car or constantly apply acceleration, allow it to recharge when you don't need to accelerate, or accelerate/brake (This is a learned habit of driving a regular car)

Hypermiling people from PriusChat, for instance, always harp paying attention to ahead of you, using the glide method to reduce the gas consumption because you really don't need to always apply the gas all the time, just enough to get the car to the desired speed and let go when you need to maintain distance. And you gain a little EV power back gliding due to regenerative braking (Not a lot, but reduces the amount over all consumed)

In the case of the Prime, as some people have pointed out, ideally you want to go HV mode while doing longer drives at higher speed, treating it like a normal hybrid/car and let the gas engine do the heavy work of getting to speed and the battery to help assist in maintaining the speed (This is done naturally by the system, so no real thinking of than putting it into HV mode or use Auto see if the system will do it intuitively) And as mentioned before, some recommend using the HOLD CHG at times to 'prepare' the battery to help assist on uphill climbs if the EV battery is low. It will put more 'strain' on the engine as it is providing power for the drive and charging up the battery.

EV mode is best in the situation of the stop and go, because you really don't need the gas engine to get you 'going' on city streets or stop and go traffic. Many will say you can use it for highway speeds, which is true, but also, you are putting more demand on the battery so you reduce the over all range of the battery charge.

If you have the all digital dash for the Prime, there is an 'EV' usage meter you can have showing. It gives an approximate of miles per kilowatt on average. Anything above 2.3 m/kW is better than below that, but mind you, you will NEVER get it to be consistently like that, so don't force yourself trying to do that. This is just a 'what to look for', or 'maybe switch to HV' time if you know you are consistently going longer distances and seeing it dipping below that and you aren't stopping/slowing any time soon and your goal is trying to make the 'guessometer' for your EV range to go up.

And many will point out - The DTE/Electric Range is a 'guess', and it is hyperconservative (IE, lower number than it really is at times)
 
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Discussion starter · #20 ·
Templeton said:
There are some good recommendations, but there are no "hard" answers to your questions. If I was going on a short trip (way less than 40 miles) even with some freeway driving, I would certainly leave it in EV mode and then just charge back up when I got home. Also, the computer estimate is based on slower speeds because, at 60-70+mph, you won't get 40 miles of EV range, as energy consumption per mile is extremely high at those speeds. So, if I was going on a longer trip, I would use EV initially at the slower speeds on local streets and then use HV mode (after warming up the ICE) on the expressways/freeways when the engine would be running entirely or mostly continuously at fairly high output. (However, I would go back to EV mode temporarily if it became slow or stop/go traffic on the freeway.) Then, after the fast expressway/freeway segment of my trip, I would return to EV mode when I got back to slower surface streets. This is likely the most efficient way to use the rav4P, but, as always, YMMV.

Don't use charge mode unless you (1) don't have access to grid power and (2) need to have a full battery for some reason (camping, needing to push the total range of the car because of a lack of gas stations, entering an EV-only city area, etc.). Charge mode is definitely convenient in those cases, but 99.9% of the time, it will never give you better efficiency than using EV mode (electricity from the grid) and HV mode as described above.
Click to expand...
This is excellent advice. The car has no idea how many miles you plan on driving, so the guess-o-meter can only do so much. I just did a 6 mile roundtrip near my home and the EV miles estimate was accurate. Would you say that the Auto button is more designed for those that don't ponder this stuff like we do and we want to get the most out of our EV miles? It seems I should l leave the Auto button off and do like you're doing use EV mode even on the highway if it's short roundtrips less than 30 or 40 miles. And use the HV on the XPressway on more than 40 miles roundtrip. Thanks for explaining about the CRG Hold, I'll probably never use that.

I'm also trying to pay more attention to the radio, sometimes it's on but the volume is too low to hear it. I should just turn it off. Same thing on the heat and air, I should use the fan and make sure the A/C button is off. I have the ECO heat/cool button pressed in. Should it be off when not using the heat and A/C
 
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