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Tips on getting the most out of my 40 EV miles

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#61 ·
gmpnashville said:
I just recently bought a Rav4 prime XSE and am interested in getting close to 40 miles on electric only. I need to know what settings to use. ECO or Normal? Press Auto button? Anything else? The other day I traveled 5 miles and came back home. This was 10 miles total and it showed up going do from 39 to 29 for EV miles available, which is expected.

Yesterday I went 20 miles and it completely used the 39 miles listed for EV. In other words I got 20 miles not 39 from EV. It was at zero EV at my destination. I was in a hurry and used the XPressway for 90% of the journey. I went around 80 MPH some and fluctuated between 65 and 80. I know the faster speeds are not good on electric only, but I didn't know they would be that bad. So I think my settings must be off some.

I'm also confused about the Dashboard screen info. On the left top it says Total average miles/kWh 2.9 and below it right now it has a horizontal line scale saying 0 miles/kWh. It's fully charged and says 38 miles EV. I know when I start driving this lower scale will change from 0 miles to I suppose whatever my driving habits have it guess what my miles/kWh are.

Later after I run out of electric miles the same view changes from miles/kWh to MPG. It usually starts around 85 MPG and slowly goes down to around 65 MPG. I would appreciate any explanation of these miles/kWh and MPG numbers and how best to adjust my settings so when I do this journey next Sunday I'll get better use of my 38 miles of EV
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The user manual says you shouldn't run at highway speeds for extended periods in ev mode. Best to switch to hv on highway. Around town, eco mode with the AC off. Remove unnecessary weight from the trunk. Accelerate slowly and smoothly, coast when you can, and let off the gas well in advance of stopping to maximize regen breaking. Add the eco score widget to the dash and aim for scores above 80. You can lightly ride the break when stopping to regen even more as the actual break pads don't activate until the regen pegs at max. So keeping the recharge meter at 1/2 to 3/4 of max seems to be the best place to recuperate some charge. Don't go over 65 on highway. The manual says something to the effect that you'll lose 3 to 5% efficiency just from going from 65 to 70 mph. I got 75mpg for a 15 mile trip using this combo the other day.
 
#63 ·
gmpnashville said:
Yes this is very confusing, but when you look at how the button is labeled you do see the logic
HV/EV
CHG Hold
The top part is telling you it's a toggle between HV/EV and if you want to use the ICE to charge the battery you hold the button. I'm so glad this was finally explained. Now I understand why it did so badly using the EV mode at 80 mph.

So if I'm driving in the city at slower speeds, use the EV mode with the toggle and if I am using highway speeds over 50, use HV mode? Should I do this manually and forget about using the Auto mode, which is probably supposed to do what I just said automatically? Should I just leave it in ECO mode and not use Normal? My goal is to get as much out of the EV miles as I can.
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The answer is, for best use of any PHEV: electric-only at speeds < 40 mph, HV "hold" mode for speeds > 45 mph. Never use Auto-EV/HV; it's a total waste. We never use ECO mode or Sport mode (only Normal), and we get consistently 50 miles of all-electric range in local driving (< 40 mph). We have seen zero degradation of our traction battery in 3.5 years of daily driving and charging to full. We use the Charge mode when on long road trips, as it's very useful for making sure that you have charge in the traction battery when you get into stop-and-go traffic. Yes, you can use EV mode up to about 86 mph, but it only makes sense to do so when you're close to home.

My basic personal rule is: never get to zero miles on the traction battery; I don't ever want to drive into my garage with the ICE on and gas fumes spewing out of the tail pipes (this ICE/fumes problem will occur if the ICE has turned on shortly before getting home because it stays on long enough to warm up). So we normally only toggle between EV (< 40 mph) and HV (> 40 mph), except for Charge on long road trips (a few times a year, and then usually for only like 20-40 minutes in an 8-hour drive). HV mode should keep the traction battery around the same charge level, using some traction-battery charge along the way while regenerating it with coasting and braking. We have bought three PHEVs so far, with another coming soon via a trade-in; we've mastered the art of driving PHEVs. :)
 
#64 ·
Templeton said:
I don't doubt you, but l want to look that up. On what page or in what section? I had no luck finding it. Thanks.
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It's on page 95 in my user manual. It says "When driving on highways, use the EV/HV mode selection switch to drive in HV mode. The power consumption will increase significantly if the vehicle is driven in EV mode on highways." That's section 2-1 "Tips for extending ev driving range"
 
#65 · (Edited)
Edited...
In the 2024 manual, the EV Range section starts on Page 93.

Reference: User manual Toyota RAV4 Prime (2024) (English - 666 pages)

But what LTCTuvok refers to is here: User manual Toyota RAV4 Prime (2024) (English - 666 pages)

â–  When driving on highways, use the EV/HV mode selection switch to drive in HV mode
The power consumption will increase significantly if the vehicle is driven in EV mode on highways.
Click to expand...
This is between the Check Tire Pressure and Don't load unnecessary loads.
 
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#66 · (Edited)
Keiichi25 said:
Edited...
In the 2024 manual, the EV Range section starts on Page 93.

Reference: User manual Toyota RAV4 Prime (2024) (English - 666 pages)

But what LTCTuvok refers to is here: User manual Toyota RAV4 Prime (2024) (English - 666 pages)

This is between the Check Tire Pressure and Don't load unnecessary loads.
Click to expand...
Ah, ok, so the manual does NOT say: "you shouldn't run at highway speeds for extended periods in EV mode." Instead, it just says switch to HV mode if you don't want to deplete the battery fast at highway speeds. Which are two very different things. Because there is no way that Toyota would allow the rav4P to go up to 84mph on electricity alone if there was any actual issue with going that fast in EV mode.

And that is sort of confirmed here as well:
"Electricity consumption will increase significantly when driving at high speeds in EV or AUTO mode. If there will be a long distance to the next external charging point after leaving a freeway, it is recommended to drive in HV mode while on the freeway and change to EV or AUTO mode after leaving the freeway."

Which means that, conversely, if you can charge soon enough for your needs after leaving the freeway, you don't need to do this, you can drive in EV mode on the freeway (if you want).
 
#67 ·
Well, I think it is more of the type of people who are going to go, "Where is my promised MPG/EV Range?"

The thing is, people don't realize the EPA MPG/EV range number is 'subjective' and not realistic.

On the PriusChat Forums, there are people who were hypermiling past the expected MPG for their Prius, but that also depended on factors.

In the case here, to really get 'more' from your EV range, it is making use of the Gas engine to do some of the bulk work. At the same time, the eMPG of 94 is going to be reliant on the fact that you aren't going to strain the engine with the hard acceleration and hard braking where that is actually a common habit with drivers in general.

Back when I had a Prius v, hell, a little bit before that, the constant thing I saw with drivers is the 'need' to drive as fast as you can, then braking to slowdown instead of just looking ahead and ease off the gas, braking when the coasting isn't enough. Lots of wasted kinetic and potential energy with that kind of drive style.

It sort of applies with the R4P as much as it does for the R4H or even with any car in general. While being 'light footed' on the gas or being a 'tortoise' in the acceleration is annoying, the real slow ones are the major hypermiling people, but the basic speed up enough to get to speed and coast/glide or just simply letting off the gas when things uphead look to be slowing down instead of braking, gives you better mpg over all.

And using Gas/HV on highway will help the overall battery range as you aren't demanding as much from the battery that the gas engine can handle, letting the battery just supplement when needed.
 
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#68 ·
Keiichi25 said:
Well, I think it is more of the type of people who are going to go, "Where is my promised MPG/EV Range?"

The thing is, people don't realize the EPA MPG/EV range number is 'subjective' and not realistic.

On the PriusChat Forums, there are people who were hypermiling past the expected MPG for their Prius, but that also depended on factors.

In the case here, to really get 'more' from your EV range, it is making use of the Gas engine to do some of the bulk work. At the same time, the eMPG of 94 is going to be reliant on the fact that you aren't going to strain the engine with the hard acceleration and hard braking where that is actually a common habit with drivers in general.

Back when I had a Prius v, hell, a little bit before that, the constant thing I saw with drivers is the 'need' to drive as fast as you can, then braking to slowdown instead of just looking ahead and ease off the gas, braking when the coasting isn't enough. Lots of wasted kinetic and potential energy with that kind of drive style.

It sort of applies with the R4P as much as it does for the R4H or even with any car in general. While being 'light footed' on the gas or being a 'tortoise' in the acceleration is annoying, the real slow ones are the major hypermiling people, but the basic speed up enough to get to speed and coast/glide or just simply letting off the gas when things uphead look to be slowing down instead of braking, gives you better mpg over all.

And using Gas/HV on highway will help the overall battery range as you aren't demanding as much from the battery that the gas engine can handle, letting the battery just supplement when needed.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree with everything you are saying. Most definitely, for EV range or any efficiency numbers, a mile is not a mile is not a mile. And it all applies even more for the rav4P, as the rav is a much, much heavier vehicle than any of the prius series. But, of course, if you drive with some thought and care, you can indeed at times get extraordinary mileage or range. And the opposite is also true.

I too use the ICE most of the time on the freeway. I was just more stating that toyota has no prohibitions against the use of EV mode on the freeway, the manual just states the obvious: higher speeds = much lower EV range. And not the best mpg either.
 
#69 ·
Templeton said:
Ah, ok, so the manual does NOT say: "you shouldn't run at highway speeds for extended periods in EV mode." Instead, it just says switch to HV mode if you don't want to deplete the battery fast at highway speeds. Which are two very different things. Because there is no way that Toyota would allow the rav4P to go up to 84mph on electricity alone if there was any actual issue with going that fast in EV mode.

And that is sort of confirmed here as well:
"Electricity consumption will increase significantly when driving at high speeds in EV or AUTO mode. If there will be a long distance to the next external charging point after leaving a freeway, it is recommended to drive in HV mode while on the freeway and change to EV or AUTO mode after leaving the freeway."

Which means that, conversely, if you can charge soon enough for your needs after leaving the freeway, you don't need to do this, you can drive in EV mode on the freeway (if you want).
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"Because there is no way that Toyota would allow the rav4P to go up to 84mph on electricity alone if there was any actual issue with going that fast in EV mode."

If you go 84mph in EV you will deplete a fully charged battery in around 20 minutes. maybe less. I call that an actual issue, because that is a sure way to degrade the battery.
 
#70 ·
randerson0248 said:
"Because there is no way that Toyota would allow the rav4P to go up to 84mph on electricity alone if there was any actual issue with going that fast in EV mode."

If you go 84mph in EV you will deplete a fully charged battery in around 20 minutes. maybe less. I call that an actual issue, because that is a sure way to degrade the battery.
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This is interesting. If so, why would not toyota then limit (to far lower than 84 mph) the top speed in EV mode for the Rav4P? Why would toyota allow users to frequently degrade their battery? Or why, at least, did toyota not put in a warning in the car or in the owners manual like: "frequently driving above X speed on EV mode will degrade the life of the Rav4P traction battery."?
 
#71 · (Edited)
Templeton said:
This is interesting. If so, why would not toyota then limit (to far lower than 84 mph) the top speed in EV mode for the Rav4P? Why would toyota allow users to frequently degrade their battery? Or why, at least, did toyota not put in a warning in the car or in the owners manual like: "frequently driving above X speed on EV mode will degrade the life of the Rav4P traction battery."?
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There are lots of cases where Toyota has less than full detailed documentation. The 84 mph limit has nothing to do with the battery. It has to do with the maximum RPM limit for MG1. At some point above 84, MG1 spins at its maximum rated rpm, so the ICE starts to provide power to the wheels, thus lowering MG1 rpm.

Edit: changed MG2 to MG1 as this is the motor that hits the rpm limit.
 
#72 ·
wscan said:
There are lots of cases where Toyota has less than full detailed documentation. The 84 mph limit has nothing to do with the battery. It has to do with the maximum RPM limit for MG2. At some point above 84, MG2 spins at its maximum rated rpm, so the ICE starts to provide power to the wheels, thus lowering MG2 rpm.
Click to expand...
Sure, but then how do we know when exactly it is "bad" to drive on EV mode? Above 80mph? 70mph? 60mph? 50mph? 40mph? and so on. Also, toyota does a decent (but not perfect) job of documentation. There are many, many warnings in the owners manual cautioning about certain operations and those damaging the car. But toyota would not have included a max speed on EV warning?? That seems very, very odd.

For example, why would toyota write this?
"Electricity consumption will increase significantly when driving at high speeds in EV or AUTO mode. If there will be a long distance to the next external charging point after leaving a freeway, it is recommended to drive in HV mode while on the freeway and change to EV or AUTO mode after leaving the freeway."

Instead of toyota writing this?
"Electricity consumption will increase significantly when driving at high speeds in EV or AUTO mode. Also, do not drive in EV mode above X mph for more than X minutes as that will significantly degrade the life of the traction battery."
 
#73 ·
Templeton said:
Sure, but then how do we know when exactly it is "bad" to drive on EV mode? Above 80mph? 70mph? 60mph? 50mph? 40mph? and so on. Also, toyota does a decent (but not perfect) job of documentation. There are many, many warnings in the owners manual cautioning about certain operations and those damaging the car. But toyota would not have included a max speed on EV warning?? That seems very, very odd.

For example, why would toyota write this?
"Electricity consumption will increase significantly when driving at high speeds in EV or AUTO mode. If there will be a long distance to the next external charging point after leaving a freeway, it is recommended to drive in HV mode while on the freeway and change to EV or AUTO mode after leaving the freeway."

Instead of toyota writing this?
"Electricity consumption will increase significantly when driving at high speeds in EV or AUTO mode. Also, do not drive in EV mode above X mph for more than X minutes as that will significantly degrade the life of the traction battery."
Click to expand...
Toyota has included many protections for the battery in the software. For example in cold weather, current draw from the battery is limited and the car will go into HV mode to prevent damage to the battery. Toyota has done this to be able to warrant the battery for 10 years/150k miles without too many claims. A lot of what you hear here are generalizations based on other Lithium-ion battery systems. Just drive the car and enjoy it. Car manufacturers typically do not tell you not to run your ICE at high rpms (that is rpms under the red line), but certainly running at high rpms a lot will shorten the life of your ICE.
 
#74 ·
wscan said:
There are lots of cases where Toyota has less than full detailed documentation. The 84 mph limit has nothing to do with the battery. It has to do with the maximum RPM limit for MG2. At some point above 84, MG2 spins at its maximum rated rpm, so the ICE starts to provide power to the wheels, thus lowering MG2 rpm.
Click to expand...
MG2 is directly connected to the wheels through speed reduction gears, thus it spins as fast as the wheels times the gear ratio. There is no physical way to reduce the RPM of MG2 below that. Professor Kelly explains that in the oft shared Weber State video.

The max RPM of MG2 is high enough for the car to go about 120 MPH.

On the other hand, the gear ratio between the wheels and the gas engine is not fixed. MG1 is used to control that gear ratio, but I don't know the range of gear ratios between the gas engine and wheels may be. Again, Professor Kelly explains how MG1 controls the gear ratio.
 
#75 · (Edited)
FKHeath said:
MG2 is directly connected to the wheels through speed reduction gears, thus it spins as fast as the wheels times the gear ratio. There is no physical way to reduce the RPM of MG2 below that. Professor Kelly explains that in the oft shared Weber State video.

The max RPM of MG2 is high enough for the car to go about 120 MPH.

On the other hand, the gear ratio between the wheels and the gas engine is not fixed. MG1 is used to control that gear ratio, but I don't know the range of gear ratios between the gas engine and wheels may be. Again, Professor Kelly explains how MG1 controls the gear ratio.
Click to expand...
Yup. MG1 is actually the limiting factor. When the engine is off, MG1 is spinning many times faster than the front wheels. MG1 is the sun gear, the engine is the planetary, and the axle is the ring gear. With the engine (planetary) stationary, the ring gear (axle) will force the sun gear to spin a lot faster.

Play with this to see what I mean:
www.thecatalystis.com

Planetary Gear Simulator

www.thecatalystis.com

I can't remember if Prof. Kelly did the math in his video or if I did years ago, but it basically boils down to this: The motor-generator has a top-speed of 17,000rpm; when you do the gear ratio math down to the factory tires, you get roughly 84mph. So the engine starts, and that reduces the speed of MG1.

Seriously, that transaxle isn't just a brilliant piece of engineering… it's a work of art.
 
#76 ·
wscan said:
Toyota has included many protections for the battery in the software. For example in cold weather, current draw from the battery is limited and the car will go into HV mode to prevent damage to the battery. Toyota has done this to be able to warrant the battery for 10 years/150k miles without too many claims. A lot of what you hear here are generalizations based on other Lithium-ion battery systems. Just drive the car and enjoy it. Car manufacturers typically do not tell you not to run your ICE at high rpms (that is rpms under the red line), but certainly running at high rpms a lot will shorten the life of your ICE.
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Sure, but the bottom line is that there is no harm or warranty issue to using EV mode at any reasonable speed, correct? Other than the obvious fact that higher speeds take far more energy which means significantly less EV range at those higher speeds.
 
#77 ·
Templeton said:
Sure, but the bottom line is that there is no harm or warranty issue to using EV mode at any reasonable speed, correct? Other than the obvious fact that higher speeds take far more energy which means significantly less EV range at those higher speeds.
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No major harm. The only thing as you say is that you get less EV range at higher speeds. This then causes the need to charge more often. As we all know, the number of battery cycles is limited. As a result, the battery may be degraded at a lower mileage than a car that was only driven in EV mode below 45 mph or so. There should be no warranty issue as Toyota has NOT stated that it is forbidden to drive at highway speeds in EV mode.
 
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