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How much electricity to fully charge battery

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gmpnashville

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I think the RAV4 battery is 14.4 kw and I understand it only will charge up to 80% and won't go less than 30% when it's run down. My electric co charges $0.13/Kwh. So how much will it cost to charge up my battery when it's down to 0 miles? If my terminology is incorrect, please let me know
 
#3 ·
The battery is rated at 18.1 kWh, with about 14 kWh usable in EV mode. Charging from 0 EV to full takes about 14.6 kWh as measured at the EVSE. As the battery ages, the energy required to charge does get lower, typically to the mid-13 kWh range has been observed.
 
#6 ·
gmpnashville said:
So does that mean in my case - $0.13 x 14.6 = $1.90
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Just make sure that $0.13 is the full charge for power. Some electric companies have a number of line items that are each multiplied by the kWh usage. The actual cost for multiple line items is the total of each item per kWh. Some also have fixed charges per month. You can ignore the fixed charges as you would pay those even if you were not charging you R4P.
 
#7 ·
wscan said:
Just make sure that $0.13 is the full charge for power. Some electric companies have a number of line items that are each multiplied by the kWh usage. The actual cost for multiple line items is the total of each item per kWh. Some also have fixed charges per month. You can ignore the fixed charges as you would pay those even if you were not charging you R4P.
Click to expand...
Like you posted above, some electric companies add other per kWh charges that can add up. In my case the "Price to Compare" is currently 0.113060/kWh. the "other" charges adds another 0.63505/kWh. Using only the "Price to Compare" a full charge would cost me $1.71. When I include "Price to Compare" and the "other" charges that same full charge costs $2.67. My electric company also complicates it further by increasing their "Price to Compare" in the fall and decreasing it in the spring each year. Funny how the decrease in the spring is less than the increase from the prior fall.


espos4 said:
13.6 kw is what I consistently see when charging from 0 miles.

the battery pack is in the 18kw range
Click to expand...
Just curious, how are you measuring the kw used to charge your R4P?

I consistently see 15.1 kw when charging from 0 miles on the Kill-O-Watt meter that I use to monitor my charging electricity usage from my 120V outlet. I use the Departure Time charging feature so my R4P doesn't stay connected to the K-O-W meter for too long after it reaches a full charge. Maybe I just have a less efficient setup at home or my K-O-W meter is not measuring as accurately as it should.
 
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#8 ·
charlier22 said:
I consistently see 15.1 kw when charging from 0 miles on the Kill-O-Watt meter that I use to monitor my charging electricity usage from my 120V outlet. I use the Departure Time charging feature so my R4P doesn't stay connected to the K-O-W meter for too long after it reaches a full charge. Maybe I just have a less efficient setup at home or my K-O-W meter is not measuring as accurately as it should.
Click to expand...
That is probably about right for 120 volt charging. Charging losses are related to the amps being supplied. Charging losses at 120 volts will be more than at 240 volts. In addition, there are some minor overhead items that are powered during the active charging time. These are the DC-DC converter fan and the 12 volt battery charger. Since at 120 volts charging takes longer, these overhead items add up to a bit more.
 
#9 ·
wscan said:
That is probably about right for 120 volt charging. Charging losses are related to the amps being supplied. Charging losses at 120 volts will be more than at 240 volts. In addition, there are some minor overhead items that are powered during the active charging time. These are the DC-DC converter fan and the 12 volt battery charger. Since at 120 volts charging takes longer, these overhead items add up to a bit more.
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Thanks. I have noticed that during charging the volts seems to stay right around 120 volts and the amps are between 11-12. BTW, is there any way to know what the charging losses are at 120 volts compared to 240 volts? I am thinking of having Level 2 EVSE installed this summer with a 240 volt, 50 amp line. I realize that is more than my R4P needs/uses but I figure I would rather have wiring in place that can handle both current and potential future needs.
 
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#10 ·
charlier22 said:
Thanks. I have noticed that during charging the volts seems to stay right around 120 volts and the amps are between 11-12. BTW, is there any way to know what the charging losses are at 120 volts compared to 240 volts? I am thinking of having Level 2 EVSE installed this summer with a 240 volt, 50 amp line. I realize that is more than my R4P needs/uses but I figure I would rather have wiring in place that can handle both current and potential future needs.
Click to expand...
There is no real way other than measurement. We can assume that 14 kWh is needed to charge the battery fully from 0 EV miles. i have seen energy use recorded by my 240 volt EVSE at 14.6 - 14.7 kWh, indicating a loss of 0.6-0.7 kWh. This would be the combined loss from overhead (fan and 12 v charger), internal charger loss, battery heat loss, and cable losses from the EVSE measuring point to the car. Your measurement indicated 15.1 kWh at 120 volts, indicating a loss of 1.1 kWh.
 
#11 ·
wscan said:
Just make sure that $0.13 is the full charge for power. Some electric companies have a number of line items that are each multiplied by the kWh usage. The actual cost for multiple line items is the total of each item per kWh. Some also have fixed charges per month. You can ignore the fixed charges as you would pay those even if you were not charging you R4P.
Click to expand...
If I’m imputing OP’s location as Nashville, he is supplied by NES, same as me. It’s a straight .13 (approximately). This is one of the benefits of living in the TN area, with the TVA supplying power. Lots of investment last century in hydro and nuclear. Of course the state makes up for it with the highest EV and HV registration fees in the nation. :-(
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Yes Chuckles, you're right I live in Nashville with NES. So does some of these extra charges from the electric company not apply to us? I've heard the electricity is cheaper over night, which is when I do a lot of my charging. To know the real fuel cost we need to add the electricity cost plus the gas cost. From what I can tell my 41 miles EV on the guess-o-meter costs me about $1.80 in electricity to fully charge the battery. I've only had this car, my first PHEV, for about a month, so I’m new all of this.
 
#13 ·
Unless you have time of use billing or very smart meters, in most cases, same price for power 24/7 from most utilites. California has all sorts of rate structures to encourage off peak charging but my guess in Nashville that if off peak charging cost less its a special rate plan.
 
#14 · (Edited)
charlier22 said:
Like you posted above, some electric companies add other per kWh charges that can add up. In my case the "Price to Compare" is currently 0.113060/kWh. the "other" charges adds another 0.63505/kWh. Using only the "Price to Compare" a full charge would cost me $1.71. When I include "Price to Compare" and the "other" charges that same full charge costs $2.67. My electric company also complicates it further by increasing their "Price to Compare" in the fall and decreasing it in the spring each year. Funny how the decrease in the spring is less than the increase from the prior fall.




Just curious, how are you measuring the kw used to charge your R4P?

I consistently see 15.1 kw when charging from 0 miles on the Kill-O-Watt meter that I use to monitor my charging electricity usage from my 120V outlet. I use the Departure Time charging feature so my R4P doesn't stay connected to the K-O-W meter for too long after it reaches a full charge. Maybe I just have a less efficient setup at home or my K-O-W meter is not measuring as accurately as it should.
Click to expand...
Juice box 40 set at 32 amps.
Battery heating and cooling turned off.
Usually doesnt get to zero miles before charging, but when I do charge from zero miles to full, I see 13.4-13.6 kW
 
#15 ·
gmpnashville said:
Yes Chuckles, you're right I live in Nashville with NES. So does some of these extra charges from the electric company not apply to us? I've heard the electricity is cheaper over night, which is when I do a lot of my charging. To know the real fuel cost we need to add the electricity cost plus the gas cost. From what I can tell my 41 miles EV on the guess-o-meter costs me about $1.80 in electricity to fully charge the battery. I've only had this car, my first PHEV, for about a month, so I’m new all of this.
Click to expand...
No TOU in Nashville for residential. Straight billing. Winter is a little cheaper than summer IIRC.

I gave up on the math of blended costs. For me I WAG a full charge = appx 1 gallon of gas. So about $1.80 for that first “gallon” in electricity as opposed to -$3.29 for gas currently.
 
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chuckles70
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