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Tire nail close to sidewall ... replace all four?

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RSK5

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2023 Rav4 Hybrid Ltd.
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Discussion starter · #1 ·
... almost an inch from the sidewall, it's a very slow leak for now. One gas station shop I frequent says they “cannot” fix a hole so close to the sidewall, so, with only 16k on my 2023 Rav4H Ltd, I should replace all 4 tires -- because tires with uneven tread risk damage, like to the transmission, and uneven wear for other tires. And I could face warranty issues. I expect the dealer will tell me the same (I’m shopping around, maybe for someone that repairs but does not sell tires).

I’ve read some about this, a common predicament – but (way) back in the day, with friends in shops, we just put plugs in holes and drove our happy way. With old tires, sure, but with 16k on normal, good looking tread – am I just too cynical wondering how much Americans feed tire companies for new tires when repair, or just one new tire, would work?

Not knowing enough to take the risks, I’m price shopping, leaning toward replacing the Michelin Primacy A/S that came with, with the Primacy Tour A/S (all four). I’ve consulted threads here about best tires -- interesting though all over the map with driving styles, locations, etc. (for me it's more time in town, way more highway miles, rarely snow, some dirt in NC by-ways, love comfort and wish my Rav was quieter). Advice always welcome. Thx!
 
#4 ·
Being a Rav4H, it is my understanding that in the AWD-i, since it has not connected back with front axis you only have to mantain tires with similar tread depth and even brand on a per axis basis, so if the tread in the damaged tire has much more tread wear than a 'new' tire, you need to change/put replace both tires in that axis (2 new tires). Otherwise (quite new tires) you just need to replace the damaged tire with a same-brand and sizing one.
 
#5 ·
First, Google results from a bunch of tire sellers.

OP should have less than the critical 1/8 inch difference at his mileage.

And, with the hybrid AWD nothing but imagination connects the front and rear. So differential-wise it’s like any FWD car.

I can’t imagine any situation where I would buy a new tire and then pay someone to shave it down.

Just throwing my 2 cents out there.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
fert said:
Being a Rav4H, it is my understanding that in the AWD-i, since it has not connected back with front axis you only have to mantain tires with similar tread depth and even brand on a per axis basis, so if the tread in the damaged tire has much more tread wear than a 'new' tire, you need to change/put replace both tires in that axis (2 new tires). Otherwise (quite new tires) you just need to replace the damaged tire with a same-brand and sizing one.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that makes sense to me, I wondered about replacing two. It's a judgment call, I guess, "much more" wear than new, versus "quite new" -- my instinct is that 16k on a 55k warranty (supposedly) tire, 30% by mileage, is neither quite new, nor very old. I wonder what the dealer will say, and first I may look up the spec for new tread on this tire and then measure my actual tread wear. I like the idea of two tires to be rotated on the same axle. I'll follow up if there's anything to report. Thanks!
 
#7 ·
Wife got flat with her AWD in area where there was no safe place to pull off, had to drive about a mile on the flat which of course ruined the tire. Owner's manual says it is preferable then to replace all four tines, but also says that replacing only the two tires on the same axle was OK.
 
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#8 ·
RSK5 said:
first I may look up the spec for new tread on this tire and then measure my actual tread wear.
Click to expand...
The Michelin Primacy A/S that comes on the RAV4 has only 8/32" tread depth. New Michelin tires generally come with 10/32" to 11/32". They cut corners on the OEM tire.

BTW, the Michelin Primacy A/S tires came on my RAV4 too. Decent tires for ride, noise, and wear. But they were terrible in snow, ice, and even wet; so I got rid of them at about 20K miles and put on Pirelli Scorpion WeatherActive tires.

RSK5 said:
almost an inch from the sidewall, it's a very slow leak for now.
Click to expand...
Personally, I would either find a person that will repair the tire for you, or go to your local car parts store and buy a plug kit and do it yourself.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
FKHeath said:
.... Pirelli Scorpion WeatherActive tires.
Personally, I would either find a person that will repair the tire for you, or go to your local car parts store and buy a plug kit and do it yourself.
Click to expand...
I'll definitely check out the Pirelli, but yes, thanks!, my instinct from (alledgedly) reckless youth was to just plug it and go on my way. And it worked, unworried!
 
#11 ·
RSK5 said:
... almost an inch from the sidewall, it's a very slow leak for now. One gas station shop I frequent says they “cannot” fix a hole so close to the sidewall, so, with only 16k on my 2023 Rav4H Ltd, I should replace all 4 tires -- because tires with uneven tread risk damage, like to the transmission, and uneven wear for other tires. And I could face warranty issues. I expect the dealer will tell me the same (I’m shopping around, maybe for someone that repairs but does not sell tires).

I’ve read some about this, a common predicament – but (way) back in the day, with friends in shops, we just put plugs in holes and drove our happy way. With old tires, sure, but with 16k on normal, good looking tread – am I just too cynical wondering how much Americans feed tire companies for new tires when repair, or just one new tire, would work?

Not knowing enough to take the risks, I’m price shopping, leaning toward replacing the Michelin Primacy A/S that came with, with the Primacy Tour A/S (all four). I’ve consulted threads here about best tires -- interesting though all over the map with driving styles, locations, etc. (for me it's more time in town, way more highway miles, rarely snow, some dirt in NC by-ways, love comfort and wish my Rav was quieter). Advice always welcome. Thx!
Click to expand...
Sorry to ask, but just looking for clarification.... you said the puncture is an inch from the sidewall. Are you saying its 1 inch from the bottom of the tire and up or are you saying the puncture is on the tread that contacts the road one inch from the sidewall..... also, how much does shaving a tire cost?
 
#12 ·
There are lots of different recommendations for replacing tires on AWD vehicles because AWD systems are drastically different across manufacturers. Subaru seems to be the most restrictive, and their specs are often quoted, but they are not applicable to the current RAV4.

The RAV4 front axle already handles different tires speeds from left to right because it has to go around corners. A slight difference in diameter may affect steering feel if you are really sensitive to it, but it won’t break anything.
The rear drive uses an electric motor that has no connection to the front axle. Most of the time the rear axle is not even being driven, since it improves gas mileage.

I would put two tires with matching tread depth on the front, put the other two on the back, and stop worrying.

FYI - The most clear spec I’ve seen is from BMW, which simply says that with xDrive the tread depth should not differ more than 2.0mm (or maybe it was 2.5mm) between tires. However, this is probably not relevant to a Toyota.
 
#13 ·
Bcarlson said:
The RAV4 front axle already handles different tires speeds from left to right because it has to go around corners.
Click to expand...
The issue with different tread depth, and subsequent different rotation speeds, is not about going around corners; it is about the safety related systems such as traction control, anti-lock braking, and stability control. For those system to work properly, it is assumed that the tires are rotating at the same speed; if the speed is different, the systems assume there is a loss of traction, thus will kick in to control the situation.

Bcarlson said:
The rear drive uses an electric motor that has no connection to the front axle. Most of the time the rear axle is not even being driven, since it improves gas mileage.
Click to expand...
For the hybrid RAV4, there is no disconnect between the electric motor and the wheels, unlike the drive shaft driven AWD systems; when the wheels are turning, the electric motor is still spinning, whether is it powered or not. There is also a differential in the rear motor housing: RAV4 and Highlander Hybrid Q211 Electric Rear Axle - YouTube for when you go around corners.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
lexicon said:
Sorry to ask, but just looking for clarification.... you said the puncture is an inch from the sidewall. Are you saying its 1 inch from the bottom of the tire and up or are you saying the puncture is on the tread that contacts the road one inch from the sidewall..... also, how much does shaving a tire cost?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's not clear to me either so my description might not be accurate -- this is what I was calling about an inch from the sidewall, where the bottom turns in, barely on the edge of tread. (The white is compound the garage brushed on, mostly worn off.)
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
FKHeath said:
... the Michelin Primacy A/S tires came on my RAV4 too. Decent tires for ride, noise, and wear. But they were terrible in snow, ice, and even wet; so I got rid of them at about 20K miles and put on Pirelli Scorpion WeatherActive tires . . .
Click to expand...
FKHeath, what’s your experience with comfort and noise of your Pirelli versus the stock Michelin?
(Comparing reviews and specs, some reports suggest that the W speed rating and construction (Pirelli) is associated with better handling but some less comfort and more noise, compared to the V rating (Michelin). I know there are many variables so generalizations are difficult – your experience with these specific tires on my specific vehicle would be the gold standard.)
Thanks!
 
#17 ·
RSK5 said:
Yeah, it's not clear to me either so my description might not be accurate -- this is what I was calling about an inch from the sidewall, where the bottom turns in, barely on the edge of tread. (The white is compound the garage brushed on, mostly worn off.) View attachment 209034
Click to expand...
That looks repairable to me unless hole is same size all the way through, plug and patch on the inside.
 
#18 ·
RSK5 said:
FKHeath, what’s your experience with comfort and noise of your Pirelli versus the stock Michelin?
(Comparing reviews and specs, some reports suggest that the W speed rating and construction (Pirelli) is associated with better handling but some less comfort and more noise, compared to the V rating (Michelin
Click to expand...
I only have about 3,000 miles on the new Pirellis, so not a lot to report yet. But here are some observations:

1. You are right that there are variables that need to be considered. For example, while the 225/60R18 Pirelli Scorpion WeatherActive tire has a W speed rating, I went one size larger, 235/60R18 which has a V speed rating. (I was comparing them to the Michelin CC2 which has only an H speed rating). The larger size also has an XL (extra load) load rating, while the smaller size has an SL (standard load) load rating. That makes the size I got a heavy tire.
2. Comparing to the Michelin Primacy A/S tires that came on my RAV4, the ride is about the same, and noise is about the same, but the odd thing about the noise is the Pirelli seems to have a bit of very low frequency grumble, which I compare to a passenger airliner at cruise. That may be due to the aggressive tread pattern -- they are three peak snow rated tires.
3. The road grip, or handling is markedly improved with the Pirellis. I can go around corners much faster when previously the Michelins frightened me to go that fast on corners.
4. I wanted to get them before last winter, but, alas, the size I wanted was out of stock, so I didn't get them until near the end of winter. Thus I don't have any experience in snow or ice with them. (As I said above the Michelins were terrible on snow and ice).
5. Gas mileage seems to have suffered a bit with the Pirellis. Last year, I got 47 MPG on returning from Southern Utah, but this year I got 46 MPG, so not too bad. I think around town, I may be not doing quite so good -- normal before was 45 MPG but now, more like 41 or 42. Still not bad.
 
#19 ·
Hitekguy said:
I had the same situation at 18k, replaced the one (not that drastic a difference in tread left). 3 months later got a screw in the same new tire. At least it had road hazzard so it only cost mounting and balancing.

If you want different tires, buy a set. If not, replace the one. It’s not going to damage the car.
Click to expand...
I think it's appropriate to replace two at a time for equality but buy the same brand, am I correct? This is what I do if one of the tires is no longer repairable. Then I have one extra tire. Can you please give your opinions.
 
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