After reading many different posts (ok maybe all of them) about 5th Generation RAVs having "out of spec" rear camber issues (stock, lifted, brand new off of the delivery truck) with no way to adjust it, and Toyota not having a "real" fix for the problem...I was looking for feedback on whether it would be a possibility to replace the upper control arm bolt (as highlighted) with an eccentric bolt of some sort for adjustment. Or maybe even just by loosening that same bolt, prying the upper portion of the knuckle out (to correct too much negative camber), then re-torquing the bolt??? I am not an alignment or suspension expert by any stretch of the imagination...just looking for a fix for my RAV4.5, as well as, possibly helping others.
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Rear negative camber issues
Camocreation
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2022 Rav4 Prime SE, 2016 Leaf with upgraded 40kwh battery, 2014 Prius, 1965 F100 Inline 6
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Well, those Hardrace ones got me looking around.
Per that site:
Vehicle Applications
LEXUS NX AZ20 2022-Present
LEXUS UX 1st ZA10 2018-
TOYOTA RAV4 XA50 2019-Present
LEXUS ES 7th XZ10 2018-
TOYOTA COROLLA/ALTIS/AURIS 12th AURIS E210 2018-
TOYOTA COROLLA/ALTIS/AURIS 12th ALTIS E210 2018-
TOYOTA COROLLA/ALTIS/AURIS GR GZEA14 2022-present
TOYOTA YARIS / VITZ GR GXPA16/MXPA12, 2020-present
TOYOTA CAMRY 8th XV70 2017-2024
TOYOTA PRIUS 4th XW50 2015-2022
TOYOTA PRIUS 5th XW60 2023-Present
TOYOTA C-HR 2017–2023
And if I look for adjustable rear upper arms for a 2022 Camry I find these.
Megan Racing -- look identical to the Hardracing. But the megan site does not list them for RAV4. They have nothing listed for RAV4. Maybe they don't think they are strong enough? They LOOK identical to the Hardracing.
Finally, google search for the Megan Camry part,
MRS-TY-1721
get this hit from eBay.
The ebay units are different, but forged steel and also listed for a variety of Toyota vehicles. They look pretty good, are forged steel, and the price is great at $160. Only problem: Made in china and shipping from china (which makes returns nightmarish.) I found the ONE set from a US seller and ordered them just now. I post back when I have both sets in hand.
Per that site:
Vehicle Applications
LEXUS NX AZ20 2022-Present
LEXUS UX 1st ZA10 2018-
TOYOTA RAV4 XA50 2019-Present
LEXUS ES 7th XZ10 2018-
TOYOTA COROLLA/ALTIS/AURIS 12th AURIS E210 2018-
TOYOTA COROLLA/ALTIS/AURIS 12th ALTIS E210 2018-
TOYOTA COROLLA/ALTIS/AURIS GR GZEA14 2022-present
TOYOTA YARIS / VITZ GR GXPA16/MXPA12, 2020-present
TOYOTA CAMRY 8th XV70 2017-2024
TOYOTA PRIUS 4th XW50 2015-2022
TOYOTA PRIUS 5th XW60 2023-Present
TOYOTA C-HR 2017–2023
And if I look for adjustable rear upper arms for a 2022 Camry I find these.
Megan Racing -- look identical to the Hardracing. But the megan site does not list them for RAV4. They have nothing listed for RAV4. Maybe they don't think they are strong enough? They LOOK identical to the Hardracing.
Finally, google search for the Megan Camry part,
MRS-TY-1721
get this hit from eBay.
The ebay units are different, but forged steel and also listed for a variety of Toyota vehicles. They look pretty good, are forged steel, and the price is great at $160. Only problem: Made in china and shipping from china (which makes returns nightmarish.) I found the ONE set from a US seller and ordered them just now. I post back when I have both sets in hand.
I have Hardrace products on my car: rear sway bar, front strut brace rear under braces and lower control arms all see good fit and finish. BTW I removed the lower arms because ended up not installing coilovers. If you are interested in buying them let me know.
I too hated the look of my brand new RAV with the factory max -1.7 rear camber on both wheels. I found these "God Speed Project" rear adjustable upper control arms and installed them. I then realigned the rear of the car to the factory minimum camber spec of -.3 and it made an amazing visual difference of how the car now looks from the rear. I'm not a fast driver and the car can easily do 15 mph over the recommended caution speed for any given turn I come too and it handles exactly the same to me. I was a professional mechanic for 40 years before I retired and all this camber we see in the new cars makes no sense to me and show me a tire manufacture that designs a tire to carry 2/3 of it's load on the inner bead. Tires are designed to ride flat and they give the best wear results with zero camber.
One other comment on these control arms, I've read comments from folks that say these are cheap, flimsy arms and I'm here to say they are a high quality product and come impressivly packaged too. They are as good or better then the factory stamp steel arm.
I hope this helps.
godspeedproject.com
One other comment on these control arms, I've read comments from folks that say these are cheap, flimsy arms and I'm here to say they are a high quality product and come impressivly packaged too. They are as good or better then the factory stamp steel arm.
I hope this helps.
Toyota RAV4 / RAV4 Prime (XA50) 2019-24 Adjustable Camber Rear Control Arms
Godspeed Project adjustable arms and links provide a solution for lowered vehicles that none adjustable factory arms and links cannot. Constructed from high tensile steel alloy with corrosion resistant finish is perfect for any lowered vehicle. Spherical
godspeedproject.com
Attachments
Negative camber actually is DESIRED for racing and aggressive, fast cornering. Negative camber gives you the best handling and cornering performance. Zero camber and the tread riding flat on the pavement is only good for extending the life of tires on a plain vanilla car for everyday street driving.
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2022 Rav4 Prime SE, 2016 Leaf with upgraded 40kwh battery, 2014 Prius, 1965 F100 Inline 6
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Well, I'd guess I am not the only one here who has no intention of racing his RAV4, and aggressive cornering abilities, while helpful in an emergency I guess, is not something I need either. Frankly, most of the emergency avoidance teaching we give drivers these days is NOT to try and steer out of situation, but to agressively brake and allow the advanced braking systems to do their thing. So I don't buy the need for a lot of negative camber, especially for those of us that tow or have a decent payload.
Then call me "plain vanilla" and how I enjoy getting 50K miles out of a set of tires.
I'll give it too you Tazio it's fabulous for racing but for probably 95% of us that just travel within the speed limit and chase groceries with our RAV's all that camber is not necessary.
The other little nugget in my post is the factory spec's. -.3 to -1.7 degrees. Okay that's their build tolerances but I would have loved my car to be set at the minimum from the factory instead of the maximum. And as others have posted here Toyota is just cheap not to put an offset bolt back there to set the alignment where you want it. -1.7 is good for you and the way you drive and -.3 is good for me and the way I drive. We can all love our RAV's even more then.
I'll give it too you Tazio it's fabulous for racing but for probably 95% of us that just travel within the speed limit and chase groceries with our RAV's all that camber is not necessary.
The other little nugget in my post is the factory spec's. -.3 to -1.7 degrees. Okay that's their build tolerances but I would have loved my car to be set at the minimum from the factory instead of the maximum. And as others have posted here Toyota is just cheap not to put an offset bolt back there to set the alignment where you want it. -1.7 is good for you and the way you drive and -.3 is good for me and the way I drive. We can all love our RAV's even more then.
To each, his own. I posted the racing info to show WHY Toyota designed our 5th gen RAVs the way they did. Rear negative camber is BENEFICIAL to the RAV's handling even though it increases tire wear.
I agree with that completely.
2022 Rav4 Prime SE, 2016 Leaf with upgraded 40kwh battery, 2014 Prius, 1965 F100 Inline 6
Joined
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631 Posts
Good to know. I got the SPC arms yesterday from Amazon. I'm waiting for the JPODM ebay units to come and then I'll post some pics. The SPC forged units are quite a thing to behold -- very nice, but I suspect overkill. I'll post more and pics, weights etc in a few day (traveling now).
2022 Rav4 Prime SE, 2016 Leaf with upgraded 40kwh battery, 2014 Prius, 1965 F100 Inline 6
Joined
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631 Posts
Well I got the ebay units. They seem quite nice for the price. Not nearly as heavy duty as the SPC, and the SPC have bolt to squeeze the thread, which I think would make it nearly impossible to loosen and lose your alignment. On the other hand the SPC units have a slot then that allows some access of water/grime/salt to the threads. That could be an issue down the road if further adjustments are needed after a few years of salt.
I posted another thread about my worries about the aftermarket units being TOO strong. Looking at the OEM arms, they are just stamped metal. All the aftermarket units look stronger. Which then begs the question -- perhaps in a accident or nasty event, instead of the upper control arm failing, the control arm will instead damage the body of the vehicle. Follow me?
I posted another thread about my worries about the aftermarket units being TOO strong. Looking at the OEM arms, they are just stamped metal. All the aftermarket units look stronger. Which then begs the question -- perhaps in a accident or nasty event, instead of the upper control arm failing, the control arm will instead damage the body of the vehicle. Follow me?
I concur. A rear quarter impact that either would bend the control arm or the TNGA frame would also have substantial body damage, wheel damage and brake damage. The axle and CVs and rear diff would also have damage. That car would be totalled. Parts cost alone would be prohibitive to repair and the difficulty of frame straightening.
2022 Rav4 Prime SE, 2016 Leaf with upgraded 40kwh battery, 2014 Prius, 1965 F100 Inline 6
Joined
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631 Posts
So mslisaj, as someone who actually did the upper rear adjustable control arm swap, any hint how to do it? I jacked up my RAV4 today, took the outside bolt out, but I cannot figure out the clearances to get the inner bolt out. Might be possible with a lift.I too hated the look of my brand new RAV with the factory max -1.7 rear camber on both wheels. I found these "God Speed Project" rear adjustable upper control arms and installed them. I then realigned the rear of the car to the factory minimum camber spec of -.3 and it made an amazing visual difference of how the car now looks from the rear. I'm not a fast driver and the car can easily do 15 mph over the recommended caution speed for any given turn I come too and it handles exactly the same to me. I was a professional mechanic for 40 years before I retired and all this camber we see in the new cars makes no sense to me and show me a tire manufacture that designs a tire to carry 2/3 of it's load on the inner bead. Tires are designed to ride flat and they give the best wear results with zero camber.
One other comment on these control arms, I've read comments from folks that say these are cheap, flimsy arms and I'm here to say they are a high quality product and come impressivly packaged too. They are as good or better then the factory stamp steel arm.
I hope this helps.
Toyota RAV4 / RAV4 Prime (XA50) 2019-24 Adjustable Camber Rear Control Arms
Godspeed Project adjustable arms and links provide a solution for lowered vehicles that none adjustable factory arms and links cannot. Constructed from high tensile steel alloy with corrosion resistant finish is perfect for any lowered vehicle. Spherical
The RAV4 service manual (posted recently by some fine soul) says to "remove rear suspension sub-assembly". And when I read how to do that, it basically is disassemble the entire rear suspension.....
So I am retreating. White flag hoisted!
I looked at several videos on the internet, but there were none for 5th gen RAV4. A lot of other vehicles show pretty straightforward access to the bolts. I sure was not able to see a way. I would describe myself an a pretty competent DIYer (for instance, I've pulled a boxer engine to resurface the block and heads to fix a leaking head gasket). But I am not up to taking the whole rear end apart to reduce tire wear......
Anyone know the proper torque value for the outer bolt on the upper rear control arm? (Yes, I know to pre-load the bushings too).
Here's how I solved the issue on my 2023 RAV XLE. It's post #43 above with pictures. I haven't had a bit of problems and my tire wear issues are gone and the car handles like it's on rails. Check it out.
Think long and hard before you change camber settings for aesthetic reasons, especially in a vehicle with a higher center of gravity.
Toe-in wears tires way more than camber.
Camber related tire wear is the cost of doing business in a safe manner. Toe in is a wasteful luxury that gives some straight line stability at the expense of road handling, wasted fuel, and tire wear.
Toyota uses an excessive amount of toe in to work in conjunction with the lane tracing steering assist systems. If you set your toe in to traditional (lower) settings, you will find the response from lane assist steering inputs to be more aggressive and unsettling, especially on uneven pavement or in wet conditions.
Toe-in wears tires way more than camber.
Camber related tire wear is the cost of doing business in a safe manner. Toe in is a wasteful luxury that gives some straight line stability at the expense of road handling, wasted fuel, and tire wear.
Toyota uses an excessive amount of toe in to work in conjunction with the lane tracing steering assist systems. If you set your toe in to traditional (lower) settings, you will find the response from lane assist steering inputs to be more aggressive and unsettling, especially on uneven pavement or in wet conditions.
No one is doing anything for purely aesthetic reasons, even though its obvious some RAVs have too much childish wannabe racetrack "stance" out back. Many of us have rear tire wearing problems. If the camber is obviously negative, and excessive, even if in spec, you too will enjoy excessive tire wear. This is when in spec is not good enough.
There is a wide enough acceptable range to adjust camber to the opposite side of the spec. Problem is, Toyota doesn't give you adjustments, other than OE arm replacement until you get a set that takes care of their engineers' manufacturing problem. Or, use the DIY adjustable arm, along with a good alignment tech, and YOU TOO can be in spec without the poop squatting stance.
I doubt anyone even cares about toe but some keep bringing it up. Its adjustable from the factory and has a pretty good range and easy enough to keep within the spec for whatever the owner wants. What's the thread title again?
I could care less about lane steering assist. Don't need it. And, if its a bit more aggressive, maybe it'll wake someone up. I'm wagering the alignment specs are catered to the pathetic skilled driver too. They love their oversteering that some can work with. I doubt anyone can work with understeering, other than panic. I doubt that camber going from -1.5 to -.5 is going to cause any issues with lane assistance or handling. Its a RAV4 and not a Corvette.
I could care less how pathetic the pooping squat is because the tires here have excessive wear and the reason why is visually obvious. And that so-called aesthetic is a perfect example of modern high tech fancy clearance tight tolerance pathetic manufacturing.
Toyota is not the 1st automaker to give us excessive rear camber when new.
What happens with that camber when you have a few rear seat passengers, or a trunk of luggage, or a little weight on that trailer hitch? I'd wager it going from just on the edge of excessively negative spec to ... you can figure it out.
There is a wide enough acceptable range to adjust camber to the opposite side of the spec. Problem is, Toyota doesn't give you adjustments, other than OE arm replacement until you get a set that takes care of their engineers' manufacturing problem. Or, use the DIY adjustable arm, along with a good alignment tech, and YOU TOO can be in spec without the poop squatting stance.
I doubt anyone even cares about toe but some keep bringing it up. Its adjustable from the factory and has a pretty good range and easy enough to keep within the spec for whatever the owner wants. What's the thread title again?
I could care less about lane steering assist. Don't need it. And, if its a bit more aggressive, maybe it'll wake someone up. I'm wagering the alignment specs are catered to the pathetic skilled driver too. They love their oversteering that some can work with. I doubt anyone can work with understeering, other than panic. I doubt that camber going from -1.5 to -.5 is going to cause any issues with lane assistance or handling. Its a RAV4 and not a Corvette.
I could care less how pathetic the pooping squat is because the tires here have excessive wear and the reason why is visually obvious. And that so-called aesthetic is a perfect example of modern high tech fancy clearance tight tolerance pathetic manufacturing.
Toyota is not the 1st automaker to give us excessive rear camber when new.
What happens with that camber when you have a few rear seat passengers, or a trunk of luggage, or a little weight on that trailer hitch? I'd wager it going from just on the edge of excessively negative spec to ... you can figure it out.
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