Prime is allegedly called PHEV in US for 2025

beesonmichael said:

There was an assembly plant for the Toyota Tacoma in CA years back. I do not know if it still in operation, but I believe that adding batteries is not enough to be considered built in USA. I think it has to be over 50% build value here. But i am not up to date on today's answer.

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I don’t have details either but recall something about mineral sourcing. There are % escalators for how much needs to be domestic. Capital intensive and we don’t do a lot of that stateside.

What worries me is capital investments these companies have to make in factories and mines, all at risk if winds change direction on the hill in DC. I’m apolitical here. The only side I’m taking is the side of policy stability if we want to see progress.

maxmin said:

Yes, the vehicle and the battery must be built in US. Many Rav4 hybrids are built in Canada. I think assembly in Canada may be included to get the tax credit as long as the battery is from the US. So far all the R4 Primes have been built in Japan. But since Toyota is building a big battery plant outside Greensboro, NC it would seem they are adjusting production so more of their hybrids and Plug-In hybrids will qualify for the tax credit. Again, just my thoughts...

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Aug 22, 2024 — Federal tax credits for plug-in electric and fuel-cell electric ... 2026, that rebate falls to $2,000, and a year later to $1,500.
This may not be worth Toyota's time as the labor increase here should outweigh the incentives that are phasing out.

maxmin said:

Yes, the vehicle and the battery must be built in US. Many Rav4 hybrids are built in Canada. I think assembly in Canada may be included to get the tax credit as long as the battery is from the US. So far all the R4 Primes have been built in Japan. But since Toyota is building a big battery plant outside Greensboro, NC it would seem they are adjusting production so more of their hybrids and Plug-In hybrids will qualify for the tax credit. Again, just my thoughts...

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Hopefully, we need volume for the PHEV production to stop the dealer lineups and markups.

beesonmichael said:

Aug 22, 2024 — Federal tax credits for plug-in electric and fuel-cell electric ... 2026, that rebate falls to $2,000, and a year later to $1,500.
This may not be worth Toyota's time as the labor increase here should outweigh the incentives that are phasing out.

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Do you have a source for that? Everything I’ve read implies that the full $7500 is available perpetually for vehicles that meet domestic assembly ($3750) and critical minerals sourcing requirements ($3750 as well but the % sourcing threshold escalates).

Prime meets neither (for now), but if they brought it stateside and sourced the battery minerals right it’s still a $7500 credit from my read..

Google search. Was in their title. The times... i think. Just cut and pasted it. I do remember incentives were to be phased out per presidential incentive program. I remember this because it's timeline corresponded with the anticipated opening dates of the US Battery factories. I remember thinking "Thank you Mr. PoPo pants for the worthless tax credits... Way to promote your helping the country to go EV without having to give back any of our tax money"

More from Turbotax:
My comment,"They do not list the yearly scale down that was originally noted, and things change every tax year, so it is still a gamble!"

Turbotax wrote:
Beginning with tax year 2023, in addition to a new North America final assembly requirement, the former $7,500 credit is broken into two new credits worth up to $3,750 each for qualifying buyers of new all-electric cars, fuel cell vehicles and hybrid plug-ins. One of the new $3,750 credits is available for meeting the critical minerals requirement and the other for purchasing a qualifying vehicle that meets the battery component requirement.
The credit ends December 31, 2032.
How does the clean vehicle credit work?
The clean vehicle tax credit has a number of stipulations you’ll need to meet to qualify for claiming the two-part credit on a fully electric or plug-in-hybrid electric vehicle placed in service after April 17, 2023.
To be considered a qualified clean vehicle, it needs to meet these criteria:

• Have a battery storage capacity of 7 kilowatt-hours (kWh) or more.
• Weigh less than 14,000 pounds in gross vehicle weight.
• Be produced by a qualified manufacturer (fuel-cell vehicles excluded).
• Undergo final assembly in North America.
• Have 50% or more of the value of the battery components manufactured or assembled in North America (required for one of the $3,750 credits).
• Have 40% or more of the value of the minerals contained in its battery mined or processed in countries with which the US has a free trade agreement, or recycled in North America to receive the remaining $3,750 credit.
• Have a manufacturer suggested retail price that doesn't exceed $80,000 for SUVs, pickups, and vans or $55,000 for other vehicles.

To claim the tax credit, you’ll need to meet the following requirements:

• You have to purchase a new car that meets the above criteria for being a qualified clean vehicle. It can’t be leased or purchased used (a lesser amount is available for previously-owned vehicles under a different credit called the used clean vehicle credit).
• You can’t purchase the clean vehicle for resale, meaning you can’t act solely as a middleman when making the purchase of a clean vehicle to claim the tax credit.
• Meet certain income requirements detailed below
• Use the qualifying vehicle primarily in the United States
• The seller or dealer is required to report to both you and the IRS certain information about the vehicle you purchase including:
  • seller/dealer name and taxpayer ID number
  • buyer's name and taxpayer ID number
  • maximum credit allowable under IRC 30D for new vehicles or IRC 25E for previously owned vehicles
  • vehicle identification number (VIN), unless the vehicle is not assigned one
  • battery capacity
  • date of sale
  • sale price
  • for new vehicles, verification that the buyer is the original user

What did the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 change about the EV tax credit?
The Inflation Reduction Act significantly altered, extended, and renamed the EV tax credit. Depending on when you buy an EV or clean vehicle, you may encounter different rules for claiming the credit.
EV tax credit: Before August 17, 2022
Prior to the changes brought from the Inflation Reduction Act, the EV tax credit was worth $7,500 and could be claimed on cars that met certain battery capacity requirements and was phased out once a manufacturer sold 200,000 EVs.
EV tax credit: Between August 17, 2022 and December 31, 2022
After passage of the Inflation Reduction Act, any clean vehicle that was purchased from August 17, 2022, to December 31, 2022, needed to have their final assembly completed in North America to meet eligibility requirements.
The US Department of Energy has compiled a list of vehicles that likely qualified through December 31, 2022.
If you entered into a binding written contract to purchase an EV before August 17 that qualified for the previous EV tax credit rules and expect the car to be delivered at a later date, you’re generally still eligible to claim the credit without needing to meet the additional final North American assembly requirement.
Clean vehicle tax credit: After December 31, 2022
Below, we cover the new rules and requirements for claiming the clean vehicle tax credit.
Extended credit value
The value of the new clean vehicle tax credit has been extended through December 31, 2032, adding nine years of availability.
Income limitations
The clean vehicle tax credit now applies income limitations for eligibility based on your filing status and the lesser of your modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) for the year that the new clean vehicle was placed in service or for the preceding year:

• Married Filing Jointly: Your MAGI can’t exceed $300,000
• Head of Household: Your MAGI can’t exceed $225,000
• Single or Married Filing Separately: Your MAGI can’t exceed $150,000

Clean vehicle price caps
The clean vehicle tax credit has price limitations tied to the Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) on new EVs as follows: vans, SUVs, and pickup trucks can’t exceed $80,000 while sedans and other vehicle types can’t exceed $55,000.
North American assembly requirements
Another new requirement for claiming the credit comes from needing to have the final assembly occur within North America. If you’d like to check your car’s final assembly details, you can reference the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s VIN database. (Note: This is also a condition for EVs purchased between August 17, 2022, and December 31, 2022.)
Two credits: New battery and sourcing requirements
The new clean vehicle tax credit is made up of two requirements that total to $7,500 ($3,750 each). The two requirements are as follows:

1. Battery requirement: The new credit requires a portion of the car’s battery to be assembled or manufactured in North America under the following percentage thresholds by year:

• 2023: 50%
• 2024: 60%
• 2025: 60%
• 2026: 70%
• 2027: 80%
• 2028: 90%
• 2029 through 2032: 100%

(Note: Rules around new battery and sourcing requirements are not yet finalized and await further guidance from the Treasury Department. Until guidance is issued and implemented, this requirement won’t be enforced when determining eligibility for claiming the clean vehicle tax credit.)

1. Critical minerals requirement: In addition to the battery requirement, cars must also meet a stipulation called the "critical minerals requirement" to receive the remaining $3,750 portion of the credit. Much like the need for North American assembly or manufacturing for the battery requirement, this additional requirement maintains a certain percentage of critical minerals found in the car’s battery must be extracted or processed in the US or a country with whom it has a free-trade agreement by year as follows:

• 2023: 40%
• 2024: 50%
• 2025: 60%
• 2026: 70%
• 2027 through 2032: 80%

To maintain further preference for domestic manufacturing, assembly, extraction and processing, the credit also disallows sourcing battery parts from a foreign entity of concern starting in 2024. Further, clean vehicles can’t contain critical minerals sources from foreign entities of concern starting in 2025 onward.
Transfer at point-of-sale
Beginning in 2024, you can claim the credit by transferring it to a dealer at the point-of-sale. By doing this, it directly reduces the qualifying vehicle’s purchase price. You won’t need to wait until you file your tax return to claim your credit, instead realizing a lower purchase price at the dealer. You will still pay any applicable sales taxes and licensing fees at the full non-credit-adjusted purchase price. Meaning, for example, if you bought a qualifying car for $35,000 but had the price lowered to $27,500 by claiming the credit at your dealer, your sales tax and licensing fees would relate to the $35,000 purchase price and not the $27,500 net amount you’d pay after claiming the credit.
One item worth noting here relates to the recapture of that transferred credit. You can’t circumvent the income limitations of the credit by transferring the credit at the point-of-sale, as it could result in paying back the credit. This credit, if transferred to the dealer, when you earn too much income to claim it yourself, would be recaptured and would require you to repay your tax liability accordingly. However, if you do not have sufficient tax liability to fully use the credit if it was included on your tax return, you are not obligated to pay it back. This can effectively make the credit partially or fully refundable for certain taxpayers.
Used clean vehicle credit
Used cars have become eligible for the new tax credits, under the used clean vehicle credit. While this is a lesser amount than the $7,500 credit available for new qualified vehicles, it's still a new credit that can make purchasing previously-owned clean vehicles more affordable for consumers. The new tax credit for pre-owned clean vehicles lasts for tax years 2023 through 2032. Qualified buyers can get a credit equal to the lesser of $4,000 or 30% of the sales price.
Other stipulations apply:

1. model year must be at least two years earlier than the year you acquired the vehicles
2. purchase price can't exceed $25,000
3. vehicle identification number (VIN) must be reported on your tax return
4. vehicle doesn’t need to be assembled in North America
5. must acquire from a dealer licensed to engage in sale of vehicles
6. can only be claimed on the first sale of the qualifying used vehicle after 12/31/2022 to a qualified buyer (this prevents continued sales of the used vehicle for purposes of claiming the credit)

Additionally, similar to the MAGI limitations on new vehicles based on the lesser of your MAGI for the year that the used clean vehicle was placed in service or for the preceding year as follows for your filing status:

1. Married Filing Jointly: Can’t exceed $150,000
2. Head of Household: Can’t exceed $112,500
3. Single or Married Filing Separately: Can’t exceed $75,000

Local tax incentives
These are new rules for claiming the federal clean vehicle tax credit, but they don’t necessarily cover any state or local-incentives offered by your government, utility, or other programs. In some cases, you may have the opportunity to claim additional incentives to drive down the cost of clean vehicle ownership further through local programs, discounts, and tax incentives. Make sure you review all available information related to your location to see if you might qualify for other tax measures and price incentives.

Reindeerman said:

Here in Finland the best version of the Rav4 plug in hybrid at the moment is: RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid Premium Anniversary Edition... so no Prime here either.

Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid Premium Anniversary Edition | Esittely

Ladattavassa Toyota RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid Premium Anniversary Edition -mallissa huikea suorituskyky ja pieni energiankulutus kohtaavat kaikissa tilanteissa.

www.toyota.fi

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Plug in = Prime. Same vehicle, different names.

JLH said:

The word Prime is also ALWAYS associated with the best. The cream of the crop. Superb. Numero uno. Things like Prime rib, Prime real estate, Prime rate.

PHEV is so, well, blah. Boring. Dumb...

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You're using the word Prime as a prefix instead of as a suffix.

My_RAV4_Prime said:

You're using the word Prime as a prefix instead of as a suffix.

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If we wanted to really split grammatical hairs, we would note that the word Prime is neither prefix nor suffix.

The word Prime, it functions as an adjective in Prime Time while in RAV4 Prime it could be interpreted either as an adjective or a proper noun.

But regardless of the grammar, dumping the recognizable and easily pronounceable identifier Prime doesn't seem like a smart choice.

My_RAV4_Prime said:

I used the terms prefix and suffix very loosely as a metaphor. "Prime" used before of after the word.

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If We are going to start correcting: Grammar, Punctuation, Spelling, and formatting here... i would suggest getting a better page for content. it doesn't capitalize automatically or capitalize my letter i's. it misses half of my misspelled words. (Or highlight my off topic comments)

But in the end if we need to get to this point... let's end this post.

JLH said:

The word Prime is also ALWAYS associated with the best. The cream of the crop. Superb. Numero uno. Things like Prime rib, Prime real estate, Prime rate.

PHEV is so, well, blah. Boring. Dumb...

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If I may, I think you are exactly correct, and that, alas, is why it needs to be changed. The "good, better, best" messaging is getting a little crowded, what with LE, XLE, SE, XSE, some of which can be Premium. Having another qualitative term, Prime, on that pile, tends to add confusion rather than clarity.

Using Prime to indicate the car is a plug-in hybrid is inconsistent with the more traditional use of the term, as you well noted, to indicate cream of the crop, superb, or numero uno. The term PHEV has better quantitative symmetry with the term Hybrid -- they both depict a drivetrain type. No need to toss a qualitative term in there, especially since the decision about which drivetrain is better is a matter for the purchaser to decide for themselves.

I look at this change to the PHEV designation as a step forward in clarity for consumers seeking a plug-in hybrid across the rapidly growing industry offerings, and a means to relegate the matter of delineating creature comfort tiers to the usual badging, e.g., XLE, XSE, Premium.

Drexlex said:

If I may, I think you are exactly correct, and that, alas, is why it needs to be changed. The "good, better, best" messaging is getting a little crowded, what with LE, XLE, SE, XSE, some of which can be Premium. Having another qualitative term, Prime, on that pile, tends to add confusion rather than clarity.

Using Prime to indicate the car is a plug-in hybrid is inconsistent with the more traditional use of the term, as you well noted, to indicate cream of the crop, superb, or numero uno. The term PHEV has better quantitative symmetry with the term Hybrid -- they both depict a drivetrain type. No need to toss a qualitative term in there, especially since the decision about which drivetrain is better is a matter for the purchaser to decide for themselves.

I look at this change to the PHEV designation as a step forward in clarity for consumers seeking a plug-in hybrid across the rapidly growing industry offerings, and a means to relegate the matter of delineating creature comfort tiers to the usual badging, e.g., XLE, XSE, Premium.

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Or in layman's terms... Today's Prime Is tomorrow's Sub-Prime. (Things evolve, improve, and set a new base-line)

Dimitrij said:

It's a discussion about the name of a car. What image does Toyota want to conjure? What value/quality is it trying to project? What is their message to the buyers? In the context of this discussion it is appropriate to talk about non-technical things like semantics, spelling, even the font type and color.

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That’s exactly what this is. Skimming past the pedantic hair-splitting of grammar in this thread….

This started as a rebranding campaign, orchestrated by Saatchi & Saatchi consultants in 2023. By combining HEV, PHEV, BEV, FCEV as “Electrified” vehicles they can [for now] claim the largest # of EV models to choose from, and the largest sales volume globally under their definition of EV. Overlooking BYD (presumably because they aren’t a “global” mfg [my guess anyway]).

But that’s what brand / media consultants do- polish the labels and craft the message. So it’s quite relevant to kick apart the labels and ordering. Tit for tat . I just hope the engineering and product people actually building cars have access to similar consulting budgets. Media campaign != innovation.

I view Toyota's rebranding campaign and dropping of the Prime name as part of their RAV4 product strategy moving forward. Toyota's Battery plant in North Carolina is scheduled to come on line in 2025. That plant is said to have a total of 14 battery production lines with 4 lines being HEV and 10 lines being PHEV/BEV.

With so many lines being PHEV and BEV it is only a matter of time before there will be a RAV4 BEV model. When that happens not having a "Prime" named model will make it easier for Toyota to market the entire RAV4 line of vehicles that will then include HEV, PHEV and BEV models.

I would also not be surprised if Toyota is working behind the scenes on local sources for Lithium so they can meet requirements for Federal subsides for BEV.
Reports appear to indicate that fracking waste water from fracking in Pennsylvania is rich in Lithium. It has been said that Pennsylvania alone could supply 40% of the USA's Lithium needs. If that is true and extracting the Lithium from that wastewater can be done economically Toyota could have a good supply of Lithium for batteries built in the USA. Time will tell how this all plays out. Given how Toyota thinks long-term, one has to believe that Toyota is looking at all options.

SDGTR said:

Fev? Pee Hev? Fevee? Feevee?

Gotta be one of those.

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I think its like XLE - just spelled out...