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2024 rav4 hybrid. Fuel consumption. Higher than expected.

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#41 ·
reza.neiriz said:
Thank you for explaining this. I really like this car, and I want it to work out. I will post updates on the MPG in about a week. Hopefully it’ll get better since temperatures are gonna be around 30s.

You are right about not using the battery in cold weather. For the first time today, I saw 80% EV usage on dash. It never went past 20% during the cold days.
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No Problem.

I know in another thread I went a bit long-winded about the pros and cons of PHEVs (Plugin Hybrids), EVs, Hybrids and Gas vehicles.

Each vehicle has their pros and cons.

Gas
  • Cheaper buy-in cost (Pro)
  • Generally easier to fuel up - Unless Diesel, then limited to where diesel is sold. (Pro)
  • Varying fuel economy based on Engine type (Pro/Con)
  • Not ideal for short trips (Con - 12v battery wear and tear, as initial starting takes a draw on the battery and would be best to run the engine for a while to allow it to recharge)
  • Fuel economy drops off with regards to high traffic (longer periods on the road but not much distance travelled)
  • Generally better performance - Horsepower (Pro)
  • Fewer issues with colder temperatures for starting.
Hybrid
  • Better fuel economy (Having electical assist to reduce gas engine fuel burning to maintain speed)
  • More ideal for stop and go traffic (Long periods on the road but not much distance travelled)
  • Not ideal for short trips in some cases (Toyota Hybrid system wants to be at an ideal heat temperature, requiring engine burn time to achieve this)
  • Not ideal for extremely cold temperatures for starting (As noted the battery of the Hybrid system wants an ideal temperature as well as the engine)
  • Engine performance is moderate - Optimized for fuel efficiency over power
  • Can be fueled easily.
  • Moderate in price, higher than Gas versions.
Plugin Hybrid
  • Similar pros and cons of a standard hybrid with some exceptions...
  • The EV portion of the PHEV allows for short trips without needing to turn on the engine, allowing for not having to burn fuel on initial startups.
  • For Toyota PHEVs - Does require engine to run for some things (Like temps being below -22F or worse might not start due to being too cold)
  • Longer runs off the battery (Hybrids are calibrated to 'assist' more than pure run at times for battery efficiency)
  • Falling back on the Hybrid system when the PHEV battery is near depleted, allowing for range further than the battery will supply and also good fallback for longer trips.
  • Can be fueled easily by existing gas stations.
  • Can be charged at home or places where one can plug in
  • Charging speed and infrastructure is not consistent in some cases or non-existent.
  • Higher cost than the Hybrid version due to battery pack being larger.
EVs (BEVs)
  • Good for short runs (Rarely any expense in starting up like there is in a Gas or Hybrid vehicle)
  • Does not necessarily do well in temperature extremes (Extremely cold or extremely hot, affects battery effectiveness)
  • Better torque/acceleration in some cases.
  • Range is limited in most cases due to battery technology and the build of the vehicle.
  • Charging speed and infrastructure to do charging is not consistent.
  • Charging in general is 'slow' in comparison to using traditional gas fueling. Equivalent time to fill up a tank is still faster than charging an EV to 'similar capacity' levels.
  • Lower general maintenance with EV vehicles (Traditional Gas Engines and some Hybrids have more mechanical parts and oil to maintain)
  • More expensive replacement part considerations - Battery pack and Electric Motors, where as Gas Engines, you can replace some parts, the battery pack and electric motor is a full replacement.
  • Not many vehicles can be on 'all-electric' without some compromise - Currently only passenger vehicles, some specialized buses and one semi-truck have been shown to have the 'adequate' performance in their venue.
Alternative Fuel Vehicles
  • There are a few alternative fuel vehicles.
  • There is at least 1 Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles and some Compressed Natural Gas operating vehicles.
  • Limited infrastructure supporting these alternative fuel vehicles, so not as 'wide spread'.
  • Toyota Mirai, a Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicle, is only sold in select areas in California because there is some hydrogen refueling infrastructure available, but again, limited.
  • Range is limited to not only the means to store the fuel for the engine, but also where one can refuel the system.
People are shooting down BEVs and PHEVs mostly due to the battery concern.
There are some news of the development of Solid State Batteries, which may be better than current battery technologies, where:
  • Higher tolerance for higher temperatures (Reduction in cooling needs)
  • Higher thermal stability (Safer, thermal wise)
  • Greater capacity and range.
  • Smaller size - reduction of weight for the battery pack (Even the higher powered Lithium-Ion battery packs are the main heavy component in PHEVs and EVs)
  • Relatively new technology and expensive to manufacture - Which is why it isn't relatively known in the consumer market as much right now.
 
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#42 ·
I'm just sharing a post I made on a different thread and online at a different site and will be making a complaint to Toyota HQ. Yes, I use Eco mode, btw. sorry I'm not in Litres or C temps, but here goes: "I purchased a used '21 Rav hybrid in Louisiana, the summer of 2023. It only had 8K miles on it. I wondered why and I think I know. In the awful heat of this last summer, I saw the in-town mileage drop to as low as 22mpg. I could cool down the car and drive a while, with a high eco score, and still only get in the 20's. Forward to the polar freeze we had a couple of weeks ago: awful, in the high 20's -low 30's. Even with moderating temps in the 40's and 50's, this hybrid was awful. So I've realized the engine has absolute no tolerances. Of course I took it to the dealership, still under original warranty, in September, but no codes were thrown and I was being blamed for poor driving--even though I showed the videos of high driving scores and low mpg. I will be making the complaint to Toyota HQ with this. But, I don't expect to keep this vehicle; I had no intention of spending that much on a hybrid and getting worse mileage than a regular gas engine."
 
#43 ·
As I promised, I am posting an update on the RAV4 2024 Hybrid MPG. After resetting the MPG and driving it in normal temperatures (30s in our case), it went up to 39. I am very happy with my purchase. It is really nice to have a car that has everything you want and some more. For posterity, if you buy your RAV4 hybrid new, go through the first tank, and at the beginning of your second tank, reset the MPG estimator.
 
#44 ·
reza.neiriz said:
As I promised, I am posting an update on the RAV4 2024 Hybrid MPG. After resetting the MPG and driving it in normal temperatures (30s in our case), it went up to 39. I am very happy with my purchase. It is really nice to have a car that has everything you want and some more. For posterity, if you buy your RAV4 hybrid new, go through the first tank, and at the beginning of your second tank, reset the MPG estimator.
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Also remember that the MPG estimator is just that. An estimate. Recording your mileage and gallons used in an app or using pencil and paper over time is the only way to get accurate consumption numbers.
 
#45 ·
reza.neiriz said:
As I promised, I am posting an update on the RAV4 2024 Hybrid MPG. After resetting the MPG and driving it in normal temperatures (30s in our case), it went up to 39. I am very happy with my purchase. It is really nice to have a car that has everything you want and some more. For posterity, if you buy your RAV4 hybrid new, go through the first tank, and at the beginning of your second tank, reset the MPG estimator.
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Or use fuelly which throws away the first tank for you since you don't know how the dealer filled the tank.
 
#46 ·
I think what most people don't realise depending upon where you live is that if you live in a region that gets cold during the winter the gasoline supply companies change the makeup of the fuel for those winter months to winter blend. On an average you will lose 3 or 4 mpg on the winter blend fuel. I average around 36 mpg's in the winter living here in West Virginia but during the summer I average 39 to 44 mpg. It's not the hybrids fault that this happens.
 
#47 ·
Real McCoy said:
I think what most people don't realise depending upon where you live is that if you live in a region that gets cold during the winter the gasoline supply companies change the makeup of the fuel for those winter months to winter blend. On an average you will lose 3 or 4 mpg on the winter blend fuel. I average around 36 mpg's in the winter living here in West Virginia but during the summer I average 39 to 44 mpg. It's not the hybrids fault that this happens.
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Correct. The Winter Blend is almost as much of a hindrance as the cold. I can tell with both our vehicles the exact tank that becomes Winter Blend. Not only the immediate loss of MPG but also a change in overall performance.

Our readings in the winter are spot on with yours here in Upstate, NY.
 
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#48 ·
Winter blend fuel has approx. 1.7 pct less energy than summer blend so less than 1 mpg can be attributed to gas. There are several more factors involved when operating in cold weather such as longer ICE warmup and more frequent run times, denser air, etc. Each contribute a small amount but they all add up.
 
#49 ·
My first full winter with my 2023 Rav4 Hybrid. What I started noticing as the weather started getting much colder is that I could not keep the system in EV mode anywhere near as much as I could in the warmer weather. Watching the Energy Flow display, in warmer temps, I usually saw the charged battery segments usually at 2 or 3. As it got colder, the battery is almost always getting charged to 6 or 7 segments. I see the engine running and charging the battery much more than discharging. I also noticed that after a long drive where the entire cabin gets warmed up, and presumably the battery gets warmer, I do get a little more EV action.

So it would appear that a colder traction battery is not allowed by the computer algorithms to discharge as much when it is cold.
 
#50 ·
peterweb said:
My first full winter with my 2023 Rav4 Hybrid. What I started noticing as the weather started getting much colder is that I could not keep the system in EV mode anywhere near as much as I could in the warmer weather. Watching the Energy Flow display, in warmer temps, I usually saw the charged battery segments usually at 2 or 3. As it got colder, the battery is almost always getting charged to 6 or 7 segments. I see the engine running and charging the battery much more than discharging. I also noticed that after a long drive where the entire cabin gets warmed up, and presumably the battery gets warmer, I do get a little more EV action.

So it would appear that a colder traction battery is not allowed by the computer algorithms to discharge as much when it is cold.
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I think it's important that everyone is aware that below freezing (battery temp, not air temp) that Li-ion batteries have a much slower rate of charge and discharge. This requires the car to rely more heavily on the engine for propulsion. During my morning commute, in my Camry, I see a about a 10% increase in MPG between 30°F and 40°F.
 
#51 · (Edited)
DougNuts said:
I think it's important that everyone is aware that below freezing (battery temp, not air temp) that Li-ion batteries have a much slower rate of charge and discharge. This requires the car to rely more heavily on the engine for propulsion. During my morning commute, in my Camry, I see a about a 10% increase in MPG between 30°F and 40°F.
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My 2023 RAV4 LE Hybrid has a Ni-Mh (Nickel-Metal Hydride) traction battery. It's shown on a sticker when you pop the hood. It'll be on the left at eye level. Apparently some year/models had Li-on and some had Ni-Mh. Found a useful thread linked below.

 
#52 ·
john20241110 said:
Got 6.0L/100km. and 6.1 on first and second tank combined city/highway.
Third tank 6.5 mostly city driving. This seems high.
I am driving very conservatively in Normal Mode to get highest efficiency.
I calculate the fuel consumption independent of the vehicle MID.
Any comments??
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My 2024 RAV4 LE, which is not a hybrid, routinely gets 36-39 mpg depending on the terrain. A recent 20 mile drive on a level road, going 50 mph, averaged 48 mpg.
 
#55 ·
I've seen it as low as 26mpg tank average as well for long highway stretches with a head wind and lots of gentle hills, but that's the exception and any other car would have gotten worse than normal economy in the same conditions. Really have to look at a long term average, because overall mileage is significantly better than the car I replaced (I have a Prime, but same goes for Hybrid in freeway/highway mileage).
 
#56 ·
Scott_E said:
I've seen it as low as 26mpg tank average as well for long highway stretches with a head wind and lots of gentle hills, but that's the exception and any other car would have gotten worse than normal economy in the same conditions. Really have to look at a long term average, because overall mileage is significantly better than the car I replaced (I have a Prime, but same goes for Hybrid in freeway/highway mileage).
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The RAV4 really has the aerodynamics of a brick. Especially compared to the likes of a Prius.
 
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