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karen12larson

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I just had my 60000km service (2021 Rav 4 hybrid)and was told that the Canadian regular ethanol blended fuels should not be used in the rav4 hybrid as it clogs up the fuel injection system - paid for a 264 dollar EFI flush- was also told that I should not use regular fuel but rather only the highest octane fuel? I phoned Toyota Canada who says the owners manual says to use regular-

so have I been upsold or is this an actual issue?
Thanks
 
I just had my 60000km service (2021 Rav 4 hybrid)and was told that the Canadian regular ethanol blended fuels should not be used in the rav4 hybrid as it clogs up the fuel injection system - paid for a 264 dollar EFI flush- was also told that I should not use regular fuel but rather only the highest octane fuel? I phoned Toyota Canada who says the owners manual says to use regular-

so have I been upsold or is this an actual issue?
Thanks
The owners manual is right: regular gas and no more than 15% Ethanol.
 
I'm doing an experiment with my family member's MY24 XLE. We will try regular grade fuel(in PNW) for 12 months and see how things progress. In their past 2 Subaru's, regular fuel was a no-go(cars ran horribly, premium seemed to solve that). The fuel pump assemblies seemed to get clogged in them by 30k. Frankly, I think the quality of fuel in the PNW is pretty poor, save the 94 at Chevron in BC which is sans ethanol. Having said that, I'll install a bottle of techron concentrate annually in the Rav4(worked wonders in the Subaru's and current BMW/Porsche) to see how things go.
 
Time to change dealership - won’t go back - thanks for your advice
That’s the value of this forum. You can get questions answered on many topics. There have been several instances where dealers have tried to upsell services that aren’t yet needed. Coolant flushes, transmission fluid flushes, etc.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
That’s the value of this forum. You can get questions answered on many topics. There have been several instances where dealers have tried to upsell services that aren’t yet needed. Coolant flushes, transmission fluid flushes, etc.
I am way too gullible - I’m going to change service providers- I have extended warranty will it matter if I use a different place ie non Toyota for servicing?
 
You do not need to use Toyota for routine maintenance. Just keep all receipts (should include date, mileage and service performed) for service just in case Toyota tries to blame lack of maintenance for a warranty repair. It has to be an obvious neglect of maintenance for them to request proof and even then they have to prove lack of maintenance caused the failure. Recommended service information can be found on Toyota Canadas web site.
 
There are dealers in the US that add fuel system cleaning additives in a greater quantity and quality than other brands. Their gas is labeled top tier. They tend to charge slightly more.

It get the same results, you can add fuel injector additive from your local auto store or even Walmart. I dump a half can in every 15k miles or so. Costs maybe $3.50 or $1.75 a car.
 
All gasoline including premium sold in Canada is mandated to contain up to 15% ethanol.
The owners manual is right: regular gas and no more than 15% Ethanol.
The issue with E10 or E15 gas is that ethanol will suck up moisture from the atmospheric air in the fuel tank. It then can form a jelly like substance that can coat and clog fuel injectors and pumps. This does NOT happen immediately. It usually takes months. This isn't a big issue for gas model owners because with our lower MPGs we must fill up more frequently. In the RAV hybrids and especially the plug-in Prime it becomes an issue if you don't drive frequently. If you only get a fill up with fresh gas every couple of months you may develop an issue. There are prior threads about ethanol gas...use the search bar. Some Prime owners were using NO ethanol high octane Premium you can get in some areas for boats, chainsaws, lawn equipment, etc. In my gas model I stick in a bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner once a year and let that tank run down low and refill it before an oil& filter change. I drive only 5K miles a year.
 
The issue with E10 or E15 gas is that ethanol will suck up moisture from the atmospheric air in the fuel tank. It then can form a jelly like substance that can coat and clog fuel injectors and pumps. This does NOT happen immediately. It usually takes months. This isn't a big issue for gas model owners because with our lower MPGs we must fill up more frequently. In the RAV hybrids and especially the plug-in Prime it becomes an issue if you don't drive frequently. If you only get a fill up with fresh gas every couple of months you may develop an issue. There are prior threads about ethanol gas...use the search bar. Some Prime owners were using NO ethanol high octane Premium you can get in some areas for boats, chainsaws, lawn equipment, etc. In my gas model I stick in a bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner once a year and let that tank run down low and refill it before an oil& filter change. I drive only 5K miles a year.
keep it dry [which means keep tank full] and moisture will never be a problem

e10 and e15 is not hygroscopic, it does NOT pull water from the air.
e10 and e15 are hydrophilic. it can hold water....in a automobile
this would be water condensation from the walls of the tank, up to a certain
percent (1/2 of 1% by volume)

on older vehicles rubber and plastics used fuel pumps and lines and components
were not resistive to the corrosive effect of ethanol. modern vehicles are made
from better plastics and rubbers.
 
e10 and e15 is not hygroscopic, it does NOT pull water from the air.
e10 and e15 are hydrophilic. it can hold water....in a automobile
this would be water condensation from the walls of the tank
You say potatoe and I say potahto--like in the Cole Porter song. It works out to the same thing in a car. Ethanol gets moisture and turns to jelly.
on older vehicles rubber and plastics used fuel pumps and lines and components
were not resistive to the corrosive effect of ethanol. modern vehicles are made
from better plastics and rubbers.
Maybe so, but the gunk caused by moisture contaminated ethanol can still clog fuel injector orifices.
 
keep it dry [which means keep tank full] and moisture will never be a problem

e10 and e15 is not hygroscopic, it does NOT pull water from the air.
e10 and e15 are hydrophilic. it can hold water....in a automobile
this would be water condensation from the walls of the tank, up to a certain
percent (1/2 of 1% by volume)

on older vehicles rubber and plastics used fuel pumps and lines and components
were not resistive to the corrosive effect of ethanol. modern vehicles are made
from better plastics and rubbers.
That’s exactly what I was going to say. Because the moisture gets bound up with the alcohol, there is no chance for corrosion. But the seals and so forth in older engines can be at risk.
 
I am way too gullible - I’m going to change service providers- I have extended warranty will it matter if I use a different place ie non Toyota for servicing?
If your extended warranty was purchased from Toyota, yes, it can be used with any Toyota dealer, just as the two year/ 24,000 mile warranty can.
 
If your extended warranty was purchased from Toyota, yes, it can be used with any Toyota dealer, just as the two year/ 24,000 mile warranty can.
But I think the question was can you use a non-dealer in Canada for some services and still keep the "extended warranty" in effect.

But maybe the question should be can she still get a refund on what she paid for the extended warranty. Depends as the warranty is probably country specific. But worth looking into.

And yes the OP was upsold big time. And lied to because the service advisor is paid like a salesperson for the extras they can sell. And they take advantage of the gullible.

My last service I carefully told the advisor I did not want their overpriced gas treatment as I had just added my own. Of course it was on the bill. Was it really added? I'll never know.
 
and not aware of any reports of "plugged injectors".
I am also in a different group and there has been some issues with the direct injectors.
My last service I carefully told the advisor I did not want their overpriced gas treatment as I had just added my own. Of course it was on the bill. Was it really added? I'll never know.
Back in the day the only additive we had to put in is OCTANE boost. Now it looks to be a regular thing. I have some toys so I use additives in my fuels
 
Another discussion having no end. Ethanol is there to protect the enivironment. That’s what “they” say. However, using high octane gas without ethanol and with a normal (so no wannabe Max Verstappen habits) driving style you WILL get higher mileage because gas without ethanol has a higher caloric value. So no rocket science here. Using high octane gas adds up because the engine can do its job better, less fuel per mile/km. No rocket science either. On top of that over time ethanol WILL cause problems like described such as clogged fuel injectors and problems with the build up of water in the tank. A not optimal running engine will emit more unwanted fumes than one that runs flawlessly, no rocket science here either. The fuel treatments used by dealerships offer only a temporary and marginal solution, the intervals for servicing are simply too far apart depending ofcourse how often the car is used. Last time I had my car in for regular maintenance and the dealership asked me what type of gas I use. I told them eiter BP or Total tier gas, E5 98 (same as 93 in North America by the way). He told me in my case the injector treatment fluid was not needed. I never had any problems whatsoever so far. A clean engine, also the ones with double port fuel injection like A25A in the current RAV4 and other models, runs far cleaner, and as a consequence, has far less emissions than a so so running engine running on the “environmentally friendly” fuels “they” want us to believe these fuels are. If one insists on the use of E10 or E15 (E15 not available in Europe as far as I know) after what I said, make sure the tank is topped up as much as possible. Certainly if the car is hardly ever used. That partly solves the moisture problems that come with ethanol.
 
I just had my 60000km service (2021 Rav 4 hybrid)and was told that the Canadian regular ethanol blended fuels should not be used in the rav4 hybrid as it clogs up the fuel injection system - paid for a 264 dollar EFI flush- was also told that I should not use regular fuel but rather only the highest octane fuel? I phoned Toyota Canada who says the owners manual says to use regular-

so have I been upsold or is this an actual issue?
Thanks
EFI flush is a con job and fraud on the part of the dealer. I do use a fuel injector cleaner that I pour in the gas tank once a year as a cannot hurt and might help procedure that costs me less than $10.
 
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