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2024 RAV4 XLE Hybrid Braking Issue

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Crashmasterd

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Purchased 6 months ago and every once in a while when slowing to a stop the brakes seem to catch and release and catch and release and you can feel and hear the vibrations at the same time. Happens very sporadically, with no rhyme or reason that I can determine. Sometimes goes weeks without happening, other time several times in one week.

Brought it to the dealer and asked them to check the ABS braking system, which they inspected and found no issues with and because this is so sporadic they cannot diagnose it without feeling it first hand or seeing it in action I guess.

Wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar issue with their RAV 4 and what might have been the cause of it?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and support.
 
#6 ·
Tazio Nuvolari said:
Hybrid uses Regenerative Braking and THAT has a strange pedal feel and vehicle response compared to the ABS braking used in the gas models. The gas model ABS is actually better and can stop the RAV4 in a shorter distance than the hybrid Regen.
Click to expand...
The hybrid also has ABS. All modern cars do.

There is a limit, due to the size of the motor/generators, how much regenerative braking can be done. The computer, when that limit is reached, will do friction braking in addition. The friction brakes are the same between the hybrids and the gas only. Since the hybrid can do both regenerative braking and friction braking at the same time, theoretically it can stop faster than the gas only. Of course the hybrid weights more due to the EV battery weight.
 
#7 ·

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#9 ·
That makes more sense than regeneration is less than friction... the minimum stopping distance is applying brakes before you have tire slip... which in practical sense for most drivers is ABS kicks in... (yes racing drivers can do better)

then the additional weight is a factor... really regen and friction vs friction only makes no difference, hit the ABS...

more weight takes more distance...

where I am taking exception is this statement: "The gas model ABS is actually better and can stop the RAV4 in a shorter distance than the hybrid Regen"

so aren't there published stopping distances (gas vs ev) or test results, rather than speculation?

With the gas RAV4 maybe 600 or more pounds more, that will be the majority of the difference.

what I found was 195 feet vs 182, lighter vehicle stopped more quickly at 70 mph


That makes sense, but not a huge difference... and I believe the brakes are larger on a prime.

Greg
 
#10 ·
Tazio Nuvolari said:
OK--but the main or initial braking in normal street driving on a hybrid is the Regen brakes. In an emergency panic stop then the ABS kicks in. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.
Click to expand...
That is correct.

It is not one or the other; there is a gradual transition from regen to friction brakes. There are some sensors on the brake pedal that the computer uses to determine how hard the driver is pressing the brake (look at it; you will see some sensors, not just the switch for the brake lights).

When you first get off the gas, no brake pedal use, the computer starts a small amount of regeneration. Then, when you press the brake pedal some, regeneration is increased; then as you press harder, the friction brakes are lightly added. Finally, if you really stomp hard on the brake, the car goes into Brake Assist mode as described in the owners manual: "Generates an increased level of braking force after the brake pedal is depressed when the system detects a panic stop situation." The ABS will kick in if the system detects tires slipping.

gregeusa said:
and I believe the brakes are larger on a prime.
Click to expand...
Yes, they are. That is why some 17" wheels may not fit on the Prime.
 
#11 ·
gregeusa said:
where I am taking exception is this statement: "The gas model ABS is actually better and can stop the RAV4 in a shorter distance than the hybrid Regen"
Click to expand...
That IS what the Consumers article says in that PDF I previously posted. I did not want to take the time to do it, but ALL the car magazines tested both the gas and hybrid RAV4 for every year from 2019-2021...you can look up the reviews. They specifically listed the braking distances either from 60MPH-0 or another speed. Go and look up those old tests from Car & Driver, Motor Trend, and Road & Track. I did it years ago and the gas model stopped in a shorter distance than the hybrid as I recall. You are welcome to do it and post what the magazine figures were. I'm just too lazy to do it again.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Crashmasterd said:
Purchased 6 months ago and every once in a while when slowing to a stop the brakes seem to catch and release and catch and release and you can feel and hear the vibrations at the same time. Happens very sporadically, with no rhyme or reason that I can determine. Sometimes goes weeks without happening, other time several times in one week.

Brought it to the dealer and asked them to check the ABS braking system, which they inspected and found no issues with and because this is so sporadic they cannot diagnose it without feeling it first hand or seeing it in action I guess.

Wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar issue with their RAV 4 and what might have been the cause of it?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and support.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's a real thing. I call this phenomenon "lurch", but others have come up with different names. Toyota's euphemism is Hybrid Regenerative Brake Transition Feeling.

"Feelings, nothing more than feelings" 🎹🎼🎸🎷

Haven't had it on the RAV4 Prime (yet), but the 2021 Sienna used to do some lurching now and then. Because it doesn't occur regularly, the dealership was never able to reproduce the issue. Nonetheless, Mother Toyota did issue this T-SB-0047-24 Toyota Service Brake Technical Service Bulletin. I am not sure if the RAV4 had a similar bulletin.

There were some complaints from the Sienna owners that after the TSB was completed the brakes started to grip too soon, too hard. In my case the "lurch" went away by itself; maybe the sensor came back to its senses :). Or maybe the dealership quietly applied the TSB-0047-24, since my van is on extended warranty.
 
#15 ·
FKHeath said:
After 3 1/2 years of driving my RAV4 hybrid, I have never sensed a transition. For me, it has always been smooth.
Click to expand...
reading about it here, (different feel from regen to foot brake)

and actually driving my hybrid, I have yet to feel
anything in the braking that tells me one part is regen, one part is hydraulic

I can look at the CHG indicator all day and brake very carefully or hard and
try to detect something...I cannot. just feels like any other normal braking
like my 4runner, Tacoma, or Yaris or any other vehicle
 
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