Can I use an 220v extension cord to use the 220v dryer plug for charging my RAV4 PHEV?
Charging my PHEV
kram2
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If the breaker is 40 amps, the wiring to the outlet should be 8 gauge Romex. The breaker, wiring, and outlet should be safe to carry up to 32 amps continuous, so if your EVSE is pulling 26~28, you are a bit under that and within the safe upper limit. But here's a thought for you to consider: I assume you are in one of these utility districts: LADWP, SoCal Edison, or SDG&E (San Diego Gas and Electric). If your utility offers a special discount rate for EV charging, it probably applies between midnight to 06:00am, or maybe 11:00pm to 07:00am if they are generous. A totally discharged Rav4 Prime needs about 15.5 kW-hour to get back to 90.2% state of charge, which is the maximum. If your service is 240 volts, 15,500 watt hours at 240 volts = 64.5 amp-hours. If you get the discount rate for 6 hours a night, divide 64.5/6=10.76. What that means is that any charge rate above 10.76 amps at 240 volts will charge your car to "full" in 6 hours or less. Your EVSE probably supports charging at 16 amps (most of them do), or you can set 16 amps in the car's charge settings with the buttons on the steering wheel. 16 amps x 240 volts = 3840 watts. Divide 15,500 by 3840 and you get 4 hours (this will actually be closer to 5 hours because the charge rate slows down during the last 10% of the charge session). So if you set your charge rate to 16 amps, you get these benefits:
1. You are still getting a full charge at the discount rate: set the charge to start at midnight, and it will be done by 04:30~05:00 in the morning.
2. Charging at a slower rate will place less stress on the circuit breaker, wiring, and wall outlet. The ac to dc charger under your car's back seat will run cooler and the electronics will be under less stress. The biggest benefit: Your $11,000 traction battery will last longer because the lower charge rate will slow down the growth of lithium dendrires on the battery anode.
You're not going to care if the charge takes 4-1/2 hours instead of 3 hours, because you'll be in bed asleep. But your car's traction battery will thank you for it.
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Assuming the house wiring was properly installed, there should be no danger of the wires overheating or catching fire because the circuit breaker will trip before that happens. The wires in socket are rated for a certain current and the circuit breaker will be safe to trip before it reaches that current.
The real problem will be that the current you need to charge the car quickly will be more than what that circuit can provide.
As I mentioned in this thread we have a 50 amp circuit for our charger in our one car garage and a 100 amp circuit for the two-car garage.
to pnartg:
yes wiring properly installed, I observed and checked all wiring before walls were covered, and tested all connections in panels. As long as I am running within ratings, 30, 40, 50 makes no difference. (I have 400 amp service to my house, 2 panels, one just for landscaping and 60 amp 220v circuit for spa)
As I said I am fine.
To Charlot:
I've been on the SDGE TOU-5 rate for years, I had three "pure" ev's before the R4P... 2 fiats, and one Kia... so I am well versed on how long ti takes to charge, and that is why I already had a level 2 charger. When fully discharged it's about 4 hours for a full charge, and indeed my super low rate window is 6 hours, and 14 hours on the weekends...
I do believe that running the lower rate charger would stress things a little bit longer, but I keep cars (under 100k) while they are in warranty, so I want convenience in my life, and can pay the small additional amount vs, whatever the accelerated rate is.
BUT!!! my experience with my 3 previous ALL electric vehicles is no degradation in range over my ownership, the fiats lost nothing in 3 years each (mandated lease) and the Kia still had 252 mile range after 5 years.
So, I don't have any hand wringing over how long things will last, and after about 10 years, I replaced the 220v socket in my garage (since I swap the charger and a 220v compressor often) So every 10 year I buy a new $10 socket, big deal.
I'm a big picture guy, and while my background as a physicist is that "yes these things can have an effect" the practical result is the small effects of "sockets wearing out from heat and age" is minor and not worth considering.
I've been fine for 3 + 3+ 5 + 1 years with this philosophy, so 14 years is the proof that I'm at least seeing the big picture and not hand wringing about wearing out my equipment or suffering accelerating aging of components that is costly.
By the way, our "country" house is about to get a 220v system, and the wiring to the house runs 200 feet in a lead wrapped cable and was installed in 1951... it has not blown up, or the breakers of the same age.
Greg
yes wiring properly installed, I observed and checked all wiring before walls were covered, and tested all connections in panels. As long as I am running within ratings, 30, 40, 50 makes no difference. (I have 400 amp service to my house, 2 panels, one just for landscaping and 60 amp 220v circuit for spa)
As I said I am fine.
To Charlot:
I've been on the SDGE TOU-5 rate for years, I had three "pure" ev's before the R4P... 2 fiats, and one Kia... so I am well versed on how long ti takes to charge, and that is why I already had a level 2 charger. When fully discharged it's about 4 hours for a full charge, and indeed my super low rate window is 6 hours, and 14 hours on the weekends...
I do believe that running the lower rate charger would stress things a little bit longer, but I keep cars (under 100k) while they are in warranty, so I want convenience in my life, and can pay the small additional amount vs, whatever the accelerated rate is.
BUT!!! my experience with my 3 previous ALL electric vehicles is no degradation in range over my ownership, the fiats lost nothing in 3 years each (mandated lease) and the Kia still had 252 mile range after 5 years.
So, I don't have any hand wringing over how long things will last, and after about 10 years, I replaced the 220v socket in my garage (since I swap the charger and a 220v compressor often) So every 10 year I buy a new $10 socket, big deal.
I'm a big picture guy, and while my background as a physicist is that "yes these things can have an effect" the practical result is the small effects of "sockets wearing out from heat and age" is minor and not worth considering.
I've been fine for 3 + 3+ 5 + 1 years with this philosophy, so 14 years is the proof that I'm at least seeing the big picture and not hand wringing about wearing out my equipment or suffering accelerating aging of components that is costly.
By the way, our "country" house is about to get a 220v system, and the wiring to the house runs 200 feet in a lead wrapped cable and was installed in 1951... it has not blown up, or the breakers of the same age.
Greg
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EV Outlets are designed for a higher duty cycle. If you look at your provided outlet it would say EV on the lower right side. look at the outlet and then again after a few months. Did the black plastic start to turn white? Look oxidized a bit? A clothes dryer may have the same rating, but how long does it actually hit the maximum amps? just like any appliance the start up takes more load and then quickly reduces to the running amps... maybe 1/2!? and for an hour. your car has a red line for rpms. does that mean you drive at redline for 6-10 hrs straight? Nope if you did it would not last a week. similar with current.
another example... if you have a 200 amp panel and 600 amps of fuses will it blow up. nope! it is about duty cycle. most home s that have 200 amp panels use less than 40 amps on daverage 24/7
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I also have a 100 Amp subPanel for (2) 50 amp charging outlets. one for the wife's BMW and one for my prime.
I have seen that my outlets are turning white. Oxidizing!? Anyway, i called out my electrician and he said he did not install the EV Outlets just reg. 14/50. he said the EV outlets were 4x the price. I just looked and they are from $40 Home depot to near $200 for Hubble. regular 14/50 are $11- $16.
I am waiting to see if they start to crack before i change them, but they are reacting to the loads.
Uhhh..... what?
an "ev outlet"?
used this 40 amp outlet since 1998, no it's not white, cracking, but when I plug in the 4 cylinder, 150 psi, 30 scfm compressor, it sparks, and after all these years, need to replace, getting worn...
sounds nuts..... please provide a link for the $200 socket ha ha!
ok, I did some research: on the hubble site it's $49..... look here: Hubbell Store
Uhh, if you want to buy one for $200 and think it's special, please contact me for purchase of a bridge... got one cheap...
it's the same one with a green stamp...perhaps it has some minor tweak....
whoever has quoted your one for $200, that person is ripping you off...
an "ev outlet"?
used this 40 amp outlet since 1998, no it's not white, cracking, but when I plug in the 4 cylinder, 150 psi, 30 scfm compressor, it sparks, and after all these years, need to replace, getting worn...
sounds nuts..... please provide a link for the $200 socket ha ha!
ok, I did some research: on the hubble site it's $49..... look here: Hubbell Store
Uhh, if you want to buy one for $200 and think it's special, please contact me for purchase of a bridge... got one cheap...
it's the same one with a green stamp...perhaps it has some minor tweak....
whoever has quoted your one for $200, that person is ripping you off...
I also have a 2021 R4P SE. I recently discovered that my city has installed several ChargePoint chargers in public parking lots and the cost is zero (for the time being at least). So I stopped charging my car at home with my level 1 unit and use those public chargers whenever I am in the area, which is 4 or 5 days a week, usually for around 2 hours. They are level 2. The activity report on the ChargePoint app shows a gain of about 8 miles of range per hour of charging, but the car's odometer screen shows an increase in EV range of about 12 miles per hour.
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Google search genius. You know that top bar where they have pictures and prices! I didn’t say it was a good deal. I was giving a range.
For your comment It is not worth my time to cater to people who just like to play.
Maybe you can just use some RTV sealant on your vintage outlet and use it for another 40 years. But I think you mean 30 CFM compressor not 30scfm.
Also, you obviously haven’t been using this outlet for 40 years charging a EV, and the RAV4 Primes needs aren’t excessively intense in the 3.3kw charging versions.
If you are going to replace it maybe get an EV outlet just in case sometime you may get a full EV.
But if you think it is just a sticker or has some Tweeks… you can just keep on living on your flat 🌎
I guess I can just call you Sparky because of your outlet and intelligence.
Giving an absurd range is not helpful, and creating a stigma that you need a special EV socket is also not helpful.
I don't like to play, but I'm hear to learn and to be helpful, not so sure about you...
Don't need sealant, there is nothing wrong, especially with 24 years of wear on something not designed for lots of in and out...
also you clearly don't know anything about compressors, S stands for "standard" look it up
I already had a full ev, as stated.
So you are a person whose top goal is to not be opposed, vs trying to help and being thankful that you "accidentally" led people astray with poor knowledge and reading skills.
It is indeed a sticker with some tweeks, because is is only a couple of dollars more than the one without a sticker, did you fail basic econommics too?
Stop the personal comments, and read, and decide if you want to be helpful and respected, or just another guy with wild, unsupported opinions..
My comments are intended to be helpful and factual, your are speculative, uninformed, and somewhat ignorant.
I don't like to play, but I'm hear to learn and to be helpful, not so sure about you...
Don't need sealant, there is nothing wrong, especially with 24 years of wear on something not designed for lots of in and out...
also you clearly don't know anything about compressors, S stands for "standard" look it up
I already had a full ev, as stated.
So you are a person whose top goal is to not be opposed, vs trying to help and being thankful that you "accidentally" led people astray with poor knowledge and reading skills.
It is indeed a sticker with some tweeks, because is is only a couple of dollars more than the one without a sticker, did you fail basic econommics too?
Stop the personal comments, and read, and decide if you want to be helpful and respected, or just another guy with wild, unsupported opinions..
My comments are intended to be helpful and factual, your are speculative, uninformed, and somewhat ignorant.
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You started this, and had silly comments. Your very technical comment of the outlet having tweaks earned you the sparky name.
I stated a range of prices than you can’t let go of. Relax Sparky! I said look it up on google as I did and that was the price range.
I am here to be helpful and I a talking from experience. I have 2 14/50 outlets for charging 3 cars. Both outlets are getting white and chalky. They are less than 2 years old. As you are not an electrician and I am a Commercial General Contractor I think that my opinion followed up on by my installing electrical contractors provided information trumps your 40 year old sparking outlet.
We both know most older thing were built better, but what is the amp load on your outlet that sparks? With a compressor.
I am not taking an uneducated stand. These Tweaked outlets are made for the demand of EV charging. Yours is not. A dryer outlet is not!
I am recommending the use of a designated product for its designed intent.
All these hacks to save a few bucks can cost somebody dearly.
Would you put truck tires on a sports car? Tractor tires on a pickup truck? Sure they would still drive but not as safely as using the designed intent product.
I do not sell EV outlets, and will be changing my outlets once I notice excessive heat, cracks, or discoloration. I didn’t know of the EV plugs until I called out my electrician.
now I am offering informative information to those looking to possibly do things the best way.
Really do not care about the scfm statement other than to say compressors have ratings in Cubic Feet per Minute. Standard CFM… Ok, whatever. I learned something that has no value to the specs of the compressor’s capabilities.
You have a good one… Sparky!
This thread is about charging, not oil changes. Suggest you open a new thread with your specific questions.
But I highly suggest you use the search function first to look up existing threads on oil changes, oil type, etc. There are many of them (perhaps too many). The topic has been hashed and rehashed so many times and people tend to get very argumentative. Then the moderators have to close down the thread.
You will probably find the answer to your questions by doing a search, rather than start a new thread.
perhaps I should have added a wink. 😉
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I was looking, but could not easily find one.
Could you share a link for a nema 14-50 240v outlet that is specific for EV charging?
quick search on amazon yields this one as an example. There are lots of choices.
Amazon.com: Leviton 50 Amp EV Charging Receptacle/Outlet, Heavy Duty, 1450R, Black : Automotive
Buy Leviton 50 Amp EV Charging Receptacle/Outlet, Heavy Duty, 1450R, Black: Charging Station Accessories - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
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Thanks. It is interesting that for Leviton there appear to be 2 versions of this outlet: a standard EV one, and a weather-resistant EV one. Your link is to the standard one I think. Although the images are confusing.quick search on amazon yields this one as an example. There are lots of choices.
Amazon.com: Leviton 50 Amp EV Charging Receptacle/Outlet, Heavy Duty, 1450R, Black : Automotive
Buy Leviton 50 Amp EV Charging Receptacle/Outlet, Heavy Duty, 1450R, Black: Charging Station Accessories - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchaseswww.amazon.com
So this gets me thinking. I had an electrician install a 14-50 outlet at the front of our house exclusively for EV charging. Looking at it, it appears to be a random "standard" 240v outlet, in a steel weather resistant housing. I do not not unplug it very often, less than once a year. We just charge a couple of PHEVs, no full EVs. Is it worth it for me to replace my standard 14-50 outlet with one of these EV weather resistant ones? All opinions welcome.
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quick search on amazon yields this one as an example. There are lots of choices.
Amazon.com: Leviton 50 Amp EV Charging Receptacle/Outlet, Heavy Duty, 1450R, Black : Automotive
Buy Leviton 50 Amp EV Charging Receptacle/Outlet, Heavy Duty, 1450R, Black: Charging Station Accessories - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchaseswww.amazon.com
Leviton 1450R Heavy Duty EV Charging Receptacle, 50 Amp, 125/250V, NEMA 14-50R
Leviton 1450R Heavy Duty EV Charging Receptacle, 50 Amp, 125/250V, NEMA 14-50R
www.googleadservices.com
Leviton 50 Amp 125-Volt/250-Volt EV Charging Single Receptacle/Outlet, Black Heavy-Duty, 1450R-B0 R10-1450R-0B0 - The Home Depot
Complement the beauty and elegance of your living space by choosing this impressive Leviton EV Charging Receptacle Outlet HeavyDuty.
www.homedepot.com
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776 Posts
Maybe wait until you have a full EV and just monitor the plug you have now. Outside may be safer than inside. lots of heat sensing tricks: a couple times around the plug with electrical tape, and check to see if the tape released it's glue / wrinkled up. Is there any dark discoloration? or electrical smell from outlet box mid charge. unplug once every few months to check for cracking or plug getting loose in outlet.
I am monitoring mine (As i didn't know there were dedicated EV outlets when my electrician did the work for me... for free!...Maybe that is why he went cheep) I do charge (2) full Ev's and my Prime. Cord temps and outlet box(s) are similar in temp, but i haven't checked a heavy charge in the summer yet. I do have a laser temp gauge. (use it for many things.. Stove, AC and vents, Engine component temps, brake temps, etc.)
No reason to buy the one with the green logo in my opinion. As I stated, I plugged and unplugged mine many times over the years and it is only sort of worn now after 12 years of sharing that outlet with a high current air compressor, which has one hell of a surge current (starts immediately when plugged in) a point that person I blocked on this thread did not understand.
There cannot be a significant difference in design, since the costs are so close. It very well may be it is identical except for the green logo.
There cannot be a significant difference in design, since the costs are so close. It very well may be it is identical except for the green logo.
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776 Posts
Check google for difference between Dryer outlet and EV outlet. there are a dryer outlets that also are only 30amp and should only be used in the 24amp charge setting. Your thoughts are not the same as the majority in the know. Designs dont need to be significant to be better. Just saying for those who might actually want to know what is best for charging at 32amps for a long duration.
This is not just my personal opinion, and i am trying to help the group. You can take it or leave it, but others read this also.
Have a good day.
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