Aftermarket Headers

Myxalplyx · Apr 12, 2010

Ok guys....what are your thoughts on these aftermarket headers for the 2GR-FE? It's for the 2GR-FE to MK2 MR2 swap but may be able to fit the RAV4. Just want to know what your opinions are on this. Thanks ahead of time.

http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/p...m/product_info.php?cPath=318&products_id=1192&osCsid=5uqha7cdjn25c02grtovaudlp4

FMW's stainless headers bolt to all 2GR-FE engines without modification, eliminating the pre-cats and providing a significant improvement in power and torque throughout the rev range. They are made of lightweight mandrel bent stainless steel and are TIG welded.

Designed for the 2GR -> MK2 MR2 engine swap, these headers provide enough clearance to bolt up a manual transmission.

The outlets of these headers are not the same as stock!! You must fabricate your own exhaust from the header flanges back.

djw479 · Apr 12, 2010

Are the dimensions available, or any pix showing it installed? They look well-built, just wondering how tightly they are to the engine while thinking of engine bay space.

Of course if you get headers installed, you probably will need to get more flow from the injectors, etc. Does the same forums/site you found the headers have any engine controller upgrades? Were you thinking of not running cat-converters or adding some higher flow aftermarket?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to think of the overall upgrade package needed if you would install headers.

I know Lotus is using this engine in their new 2010 Evora and getting approx 276 HP and 252 TQ thru exhaust & ECU mods, not huge increases but their bound by EPA regs, etc.

Myxalplyx · Apr 12, 2010

djw479 said:
Are the dimensions available, or any pix showing it installed? They look well-built, just wondering how tightly they are to the engine while thinking of engine bay space.

Of course if you get headers installed, you probably will need to get more flow from the injectors, etc. Does the same forums/site you found the headers have any engine controller upgrades? Were you thinking of not running cat-converters or adding some higher flow aftermarket?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to think of the overall upgrade package needed if you would install headers.

I was browsing a few sites and came across the link and decided to put it out there. No pics of it installed that I know of, yet, especially on a RAV4. I have seen something similar on an MR2 (If it wasn't this particular one). I did not see any information on the link above about ECU upgrades. They do offer piggy back controllers such as the AEM F/IC-6 --> http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=29_30&products_id=958

Definitely would be using a cat converter, that would connect to that header. Looks like our stock cat sits just off the exhaust ports. They call it a 'pre' cat though so I need to look more thorougly to see what's going on with our exhausts. I am actually fine with the stock header itself. I do not like how the two headers merge though. Something needs to be done there. Since seeing this though, it would be cool if it can work affectively on our rides without too much extra work involved.

Here is Monkey Wrench Racing's address -->
2287 E. West Maple, Commerce township, MI 48390
Tel. (248) 624-9820 -- FAX (248) 479-0775

If anyone is interested, you may pay them a visit. I may call them up tomorrow but if I were closer, I'd simply drive up to them, chat and see if this header could fit (or what could be done to make it fit). They even have a dyno (Dyno = Crack for Myx

). Anyone in Michigan reading this?

mensajero · Apr 12, 2010

Looks like you guys have the same problem we had when we wanted to install a Celica Header in our RAV4 3SFE engine. Looking at what you guys got, they might work even better in your RAV4 compartment then the MR2 which they were made for in the first place. Why? The MR2 space in smaller then the RAV4. Once they fall into the block, if you do have some clearance problem, just warm the header, until the pipes are red hot and push them until they fall into place. If body clearance problems? A good hammer can help. But really, I don't see this in your case. I've seen it done many times.

Regarding the Catalytic Converter, go with 2 high flow once, it doesn't matter where you install/place them, or the O2 Sensor as long as they are working.

Myxalplyx, the AEM F/IC-6, that you are recommending (awesome setup I might add), does it bring the AEM wideband UEGO sensor? You would need two, unless your setting up two pipes into one. Also remember, two pipes will need two mufflers. I have more or less the same setup, but with the 3SFE engine using the same electronic gadgets.

Man, this setup that you guys are planning to install will really give your N/A engine a boost. I'd recommend a K&N filter, and a TRD Thermostat. :wink: Oh, BTW, you might think of fuel economy. With this setup, done the right way, like you guys are thinking about doing. Don't worry, you get a lot more fuel economy, with the same type of driving of course. Good Luck and keep us informed. This will have a lot of the guys watching waiting for your report.

Myxalplyx · Apr 12, 2010

Well, I sent them an email as well as left them a voice mail. I know the hours is ridiculous for me doing this now (I'm working 12hr shift work) but oh well. In a nutshell, I just want to know if they know if it will fit a Toyota RAV4 V6 2GR-FE (specifically a 2010). I doubt they do but you just never know these things until you ask.

I am willing to be a guinea pig for this. The ball is in their court now. I'm moving on.... :wink:

Myxalplyx · Apr 12, 2010

Response.....

Monkeywrench racing responded. Here is their response -->

We have not fit them to your car but have fit them to every variation of
the 2GR-FE engine on the stand and I don't see any issues with fitting
them to a Rav4. We keep them in stock so if you want to order them we
can ship immediately. If there is a fitment problem and the headers are
still in as-new condition we can take them as a return.

Thanks,

Matt @ Monkeywrench
2287 E West Maple Rd Ste B
Commerce Township, MI 48390
ph: 248-624-9820 fax: 248-479-0775

Good news! So I opened the hood today to examine what may be involved with installing these headers and the amount of custom piping that may be involved. Omg! I have taken several pictures from underneath the car and the engine bay but don't have time to upload right now. You'd have to consider where to install the O2 sensors, the new cat converter locations, the vacuum hoses and connection that are on the header installed by the firewall and the crazy loop-da-loop of the two header/exhaust piping around the driveshaft underneath. I got a good look at that and honestly have not given Toyota enough credit here. I bitched about how the two headers merged and it not being smooth enough not REALLY taking a good look at the twists and turns they have to do around the driveshaft. This is not something for the mild mechanic/welder to do. Tolerances are tight in some areas.

In other words, the stock piping and header is not looking no where near as bad as that picture I had in my head before. Will get some pics up but if you get a chance, get a good look in the engine bay and especially beneath your RAV at the header/exhaust piping. Two thumbs up to Toyota for not making any really tight turns or bends and getting that piping around the driveshaft. :shock:

RTexasF · Apr 12, 2010

Street legal even if they (by a large miracle) fit? No way. I'd bet they would need a half dozen bungs welded to them and adaptors to pass emissions.......or even for the engine to run properly. Once that was all done? Katy bar the door, it would be awesome!

Myxalplyx · Jun 6, 2010

Lotus Evora

Here is a picture of the engine (Our engine) for the Lotus Evora.

Pretty much the same darn engine setup that we have cause it's the same engine. What I was looking for though is the design of the header and exhaust. You can only see one header but the one you can see would be the same header that you'd see from the front of the car, in the engine bay. Note that the header's shape is exactly the same as our stock setup, along with the hole for the O2 sensor.

Once an aftermarket company makes a header for the Evora, they have to keep in mind that stock shape so whatever is made, there may be a possibility it'll fit our ride without clearance issues. Will see!

mensajero · Jun 6, 2010

Simple guys, one of you dudes will have to be the so called "guinea pig". Buy a set, take it to your local muffler shop and install, or at least try to install them. If it falls into place. You're the hero. If not, you are stuck with a set of headers and slightly lost on some money. Slightly lost, you always have EBay you can get rid of them.

Let me tell you the thing doesn't stop there. you will need to install larger mufflers and CC. Why, that is where the real power is made.

Once that, next step is the Brake system. You have to be able to tame the beast so to speak. :lol:

Then, suspension. Here you have to be able to control the beast. :lol:

I know one thing, as you were reading this, you were smiling. :wink:

Myxalplyx · Jun 7, 2010

mensajero said:
Simple guys, one of you dudes will have to be the so called "guinea pig". Buy a set, take it to your local muffler shop and install, or at least try to install them. If it falls into place. You're the hero. If not, you are stuck with a set of headers and slightly lost on some money. Slightly lost, you always have EBay you can get rid of them.

Hey Mensajero,

I probably was not clear enough above but what I was saying is that the Evora's header design looks EXACTLY like the RAV4 V6's design. The header, O2 sensor, Cat coverter, etc looks exactly the same. Same shape, same setup, etc. This is a good thing since if/when an aftermarket complany makes a header for the Evora, it may be able to fit the RAV4 as well since they have to consider the shape of the stock exhaust header (See how it curves over to the right), to avoid what I think is a part of the A/C system. This is good news!

Monkeywrench racing makes a header that fits the RAV4 but the design doesn't take into consideration the A/C system that the stock header curves around. The Evoras header curves and have the O2 sensor as well as the cat coverter in the same place (Unless I found a bad picture).

mensajero · Jun 7, 2010

It's gong to be interesting.

Gouky · Jun 8, 2010

I wish I would have seen this post earlier. I designed those headers and I can say that they fit any 2GR motor with any of the A/C compressors that I've ever seen on them (i went through about 12 to design these, including a Rav 4) it'll also clear the stock oil cooler if installed. the only thing it doesn't clear is the AWD box. this is strictly for 2WD models.

the power gains are very serious. with measured power between 270 and 300HP at the wheels (depending on the rest of the exhaust) but that's with manual transmissions so in the rav4 application the power would be a little less.

if someone is still sceptical, i'll guarantee a 100% refund if they don't fit. even the shipping back (because i know they'll fit)

they do eliminate the primary cats. all other emissions stuff is not affected, especially since the 2GR-FE does all the emissions stuff internal to the head and mostly using the VVTI valves. without the primary cats you'll set a check engine light and fail emissions tests. the check engine light can be turned back off with this: http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=66_170&products_id=1260518515 (not affiliated with URD, but they make good products)

anyways, feel free to post questions, i'll try to answer all of them.

mensajero · Jun 8, 2010

Gouky said:
I wish I would have seen this post earlier. I designed those headers and I can say that they fit any 2GR motor with any of the A/C compressors that I've ever seen on them (i went through about 12 to design these, including a Rav 4) it'll also clear the stock oil cooler if installed. the only thing it doesn't clear is the AWD box. this is strictly for 2WD models.

the power gains are very serious. with measured power between 270 and 300HP at the wheels (depending on the rest of the exhaust) but that's with manual transmissions so in the rav4 application the power would be a little less.

if someone is still sceptical, i'll guarantee a 100% refund if they don't fit. even the shipping back (because i know they'll fit)

they do eliminate the primary cats. all other emissions stuff is not affected, especially since the 2GR-FE does all the emissions stuff internal to the head and mostly using the VVTI valves. without the primary cats you'll set a check engine light and fail emissions tests. the check engine light can be turned back off with this: http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=66_170&products_id=1260518515 (not affiliated with URD, but they make good products)

anyways, feel free to post questions, I'll try to answer all of them.

Well guys, their you have it. Like Myxalplyx says: "It is what it is". Now that we have heard it from the mouth of the Lion. With a guarantee of 100% refund, their is no reason why you shouldn't consider installing a set of headers. Also remember, depending of your driving, you bump up the fuel economy. Depending on the rest of the exhaust approximately 270 and 300HP is some serious power. From almost a stock engine. Believe me, you will get cold feet and hands when you stomp on that throttle. :egad: :thumbs_up: with this post, Gouky has made my day. What about the V6 men of this forum?

Gouky · Jun 8, 2010

mensajero said:
Well guys, their you have it. Like Myxalplyx says: "It is what it is". Now that we have heard it from the mouth of the Lion. With a guarantee of 100% refund, their is no reason why you shouldn't consider installing a set of headers. Also remember, depending of your driving, you bump up the fuel economy. Depending on the rest of the exhaust approximately 270 and 300HP is some serious power. From almost a stock engine. Believe me, you will get cold feet and hands when you stomp on that throttle. :egad: :thumbs_up: with this post, Gouky has made my day. What about the V6 men of this forum?

yeah, i'm actually concerned slightly if this will simply be too much power in a FWD application.

in my MR2, this motor with these headers feels simply amazing. the torque just goes for miles and miles and the noise when the VVTI throws in a bunch of overlap is glorious.

RAV4Don · Jun 8, 2010

Gouky said:
the power gains are very serious. with measured power between 270 and 300HP at the wheels (depending on the rest of the exhaust) but that's with manual transmissions so in the rav4 application the power would be a little less.

Wow! 300whp is rather incredible for just a set of shorty headers. :egad: How do you explain such gains? Do you have a dyno sheet that you could post?

mensajero · Jun 8, 2010

BTW, how much HP do these engine bring from Toyota, STOCK?

Gouky · Jun 8, 2010

RAV4Don said:
Wow! 300whp is rather incredible for just a set of shorty headers. :egad: How do you explain such gains? Do you have a dyno sheet that you could post?

The picture is a bit deceptive, they are more mid-length than shorty. 10.5" runners if you unfold it (all equal length and almost equal bends on all three pipes)

it isn't so much how much the headers are adding power, but how much power the stock exhaust is restricting.

here is the full audio assault: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJO_2wz9wk8 (yeah i know, the rev-limiter is getting a workout there)

better than a dyno is the 1/4 mile times. it's hard to fake out physics:
on 18" rims with street tires i was able to get:
1.7sec 60' times and a 13.1seconds 1/4 at 104mph.
weight at the time was 3050lbs (car+driver)

here's a dyno chart from one of the earlier iterations:

the guy running the dyno applied a -5% correction on that chart for some reason so the peak was actually 291RWHP (or 340HP at the flywheel). the drag time backs that up. but even if you don't believe that, 277 is still high.

if someone is near Fort Wayne, IN. i'd love to do the install for them and we can get a before/after on the same dyno.

mensajero · Jun 8, 2010

Well guys, for those who saw Gouky MR2. IT IS WHAT IT IS! :wink:

Myxalplyx · Jun 8, 2010

Gouky said:
I wish I would have seen this post earlier. I designed those headers and I can say that they fit any 2GR motor with any of the A/C compressors that I've ever seen on them (i went through about 12 to design these, including a Rav 4) it'll also clear the stock oil cooler if installed. the only thing it doesn't clear is the AWD box. this is strictly for 2WD models.

Maybe this is what I am looking at in the engine bay, just in front of the radiator. The AWD box. See the engine pic I posted above? The left exhaust port goes to the right and then joins the other two exhaust ports before connecting and going downward. The piece the leftmost exhaust port is avoiding is what I was referring too.

I do not have a problem being the guinea pig. It's just that once I get the header(s), I would be taking it to a shop to install like say...Meineke or Midas mufflers. They don't have a clue on making new O2 bungs. They could handle connecting two cats though.

Either way, I'm down but would need to be able to take the parts to a competent shop to do the rest in a short period of time. None are near me. They can put some piping together but that is about it. Gonna have to plan this one out.

Gouky, you are Monkeywrench racing right? If so, we've already exchanged emails on this. If I'm not mixing u up with other vendors, I thought it was a 30 day money back deal. If so, I know I couldn't get a shop to make the custom parts up with the cats, O2 sensors and exhaust piping in that amount of time. Wish you were near me.

Then again, I'm AWD....nevermind.

Been reading some positive stuff on the net about you Gouky...and the header(s).

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?s=dbf58598aa5c67354c01a34ff0519a9e&t=43884&page=2

Gouky · Jun 8, 2010

Myxalplyx said:
I do not have a problem being the guinea pig. It's just that once I get the header(s), I would be taking it to a shop to install like say...Meineke or Midas mufflers. They don't have a clue on making new O2 bungs. They could handle connecting two cats though. *SNIP to keep it short*

no, i'm not monkeywrench racing. i'm Frankenstein Motorworks (or FMW as mentioned on monkeywrench racing's site. I know Matt, he's a pretty good guy and I'm not surprised at all he's offering the same type of deal. feel free to get them through me or through him. it's the same price.

Making that Y pipe is probably slightly beyond the abilities of midas of meineke. plus, you'll be loosing some horsepower if you don't use mandrel bent tubing.

the pictures you have there are the what i made for my car before i intended to mass produce headers. that was just hand made 1-off by me. they dyno'd pretty well but not as well as the ones i now sell.

i searched and for some reason i never took pictures of the front header installed but here are other people's install pictures:

here's a verbal description of what the motor feels like when woken up: http://www.twobrutal.co.uk/forum/sh...Meisters-Mk1-2gr-fe-conversion-project-mindfuck.&p=222275&viewfull=1#post222275 (this is a 2GR-FE swapped into a 1st generation MR2 chassis (AW11))

here's a sample y-pipe for that specific application:

i'll see if i can find a pic of the front output location with an A/C compressor on.

Aftermarket Headers

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Myxalplyx

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RAV4Don

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