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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

I have been fighting an issue with Toyota for a while now and have had no resolution yet. My back end cannot be aligned, tow and camber are in the negative and I get inner tire wear no matter what I do. This has been going on since 02. My mechanic said that there is nothing that he can do about the alignment, yet if I have the alignment done by Toyota, everything’s good and in the green. Still you can see that the tires in the rear are tilted and you still get inner wear.

Anyone have this issue and solved it?

Thanks,
J
 

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J, Take a look at other 4.2’s. You will notice they all have negative Camber in the rear. The main reason they are designed that way to keep the max traction and stability under cornering when your suspension arm swings. The compromise is that there is less tire contact driving in a strait line. And the issue that you are pointing out, tire wear.

I have not checked myself if the camber can be changed on the rear, but I was thinking about it now that I have much stiffer sidewalls with my summer tires.

How often do you rotate your tires and how do you rotate them?

Cheers, Walt
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hello and thanks for the info.
I have noticed that all rav4’s have this problem and it is apparently normal in order to have better handling.
I do not rotate my tires because the wear would follow on the other set of tires. I usually just change out the back tires. I will give it a try though. I have recently seen alignment kits out there that are around $59 a side for the camber and tow and they are performance parts.
I will give the kit a try one of these days. I personally would like even wear on all four tires rather than handling. I am getting tiered of new tires going bald in the inside.

Justin
 

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Justin,

I just wanted to add a note.

From the first year I bought my RAV I ran it over 200 lbs lighter.

No rear seats, ¼ tank gas, No spare tire, and a few other items removed.

This meant 200 lbs less load in the rear. Well, when I bought my 18” Enkei rims and Z rated directional tires there was a load howl coming from the rear. :eek:

Here is what the pros told me:

Enkei/ It is the Hankook tires
Hankook/ It is the Enkei rims
Mechanic/ Tires
Tire shop/ had no idea
Others/ no idea

The summers with Enkei rims upped my unsprung weight at the rear by 20 lbs. I would rather have my winter tires heavier so I could get more traction. Lighter summers would have given me better handling / braking / acceleration.

When rotating (changing from winter to summers) I left the winters on the rear to test the car. There was no howl coming from the front. I put the front summers on the rear and the Howl was back. :x

I sound proofed the back of the RAV and the noise was less but not by much.

So my final guess was it is the Camber (–200 lbs load). Today I picked up 8 bags of wood chips at Home Depot and NO HOWL !!!! :D

So now I believe I will have to look into adjusting the Camber like you want to do.
I could get another set of tires with corners that block the noise or thinner channels but I prefer the type of direction design I have.

Please keep me posted on what you do.

Walt
 

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Had a similar problem in our 4x4 CRV. Was able to have a shop re-align them before I changed the tires. I'm hoping, by the time I need to change the Rav tires, that the same shop can do a similar alignment to minimize inner rear tire wear. I'm hoping there is a close enough setting in the "w/in spec range for the Rav" that will minimize or eliminate the wear. At least in our experience, this negative camber in the Rav is less noticeable than the one that developed in our CRV.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all the info,
I spoke to my mechanic again and the main issue is the Toyota alignment specs cannot be achieved. This only leads me to one conclusion, keep fighting with Toyota to get them to cover the problem under warranty since this was a pre existing problem that was ignored by Toyota when it was under warranty. Or pop for the $150 in parts and get it fixed. There are kits made for the rav that can go above the +&- normal range, thus in my case correcting the alignment. I believe Toyota knows that there is a problem since they keep sending out rav’s with bad rear end alignment issues. I also believe that they know most people won’t think anything of it until they continue to see inner tire wear and or get it aligned by a non-Toyota dealer. By then it is too late since alignment issues are only covered for one year, (according to Toyota).
Since I have never abused my suv and taken it off road or carried heavy loads. I can only assume that this issue left the factory this way and I am curious as to why Toyota does not have better quality control on there alignments.

Justin
 

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Justin,

If you read all of the posts (links) from the fellow RAV'rs, I believe they say it can be adjusted to a degree. There was alot of info there that i too will read twice.

I don't have any input yet because i haven't stuck my head under the car.
After it stops raining here in TO I should be checking it out.

My final work on the RAV this year will be:

Flush & Refill brakes / power steering,
Extra Soundproofing
Total alignment check

The Alignment will come first.

Cheers,

Walt
 

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jevans106, what specs has Toyota aligned the suspension to? If it's to factory specs then they are covered. I rotate my tyres regularly so there's even wear across the board.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Mohit said:
jevans106, what specs has Toyota aligned the suspension to? If it's to factory specs then they are covered. I rotate my tyres regularly so there's even wear across the board.
It is the standard specs, what ever they are, I do not have them currently. I am getting it fixed tomorrow with one of the performance alignment kits. I can get you all the specs it was prevously aligned to if you want them.
Cheers,
Justin
 

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Justin, please do post the previous specs if different from the Toyota specs that I took from the service manual.

The manual shows that there is both the Camber adjust cam and Toe-in adjust cam on the rear. I did see them a few days ago when I looked under the car.

Here are the Toyota specs for the rear:

CAMBER

2WD -1 deg 15’ +/- 45’ (-1.25 deg =/- 0.75)
4WD 215/70/16 -0 deg 55’ +/- 45’ (-.92 deg =/- 0.75)
4WD 235/60/16 -0 deg 50’ +/- 45’ (-.83 deg =/- 0.75)

I want to adjust the rear in the next few days. If all goes smoothly and quickly then i will proceed to the front.

Walt
 

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Well I gave a shot at the alignment.

It took me over an hour to level the RAV because i don't have any level surfaces. After getting it level the first time i noticed i lost normal Camber because i jacket the back. :oops: So i had to drive the car and reset it.
Making matters worse it was raining on and off for the 3 to 4 hours, so this job was not so fun :eek:

Also, because the car is not lifted in order to set the Camber and the location of the bolt/ nut, made the job a pain.

I measured with a custom tool, wheel plate, level, & tape measure.
I did not finish and had to move the car before double checking the Camber or resetting the toe wich did go off by 4 mm.

So Tuesday i am going to bring her to the Mechanic and i don't think i want to do it again. :D

Walt
 

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Discussion Starter #14
waltrav said:
Well I gave a shot at the alignment.

It took me over an hour to level the RAV because i don't have any level surfaces. After getting it level the first time i noticed i lost normal Camber because i jacket the back. :oops: So i had to drive the car and reset it.
Making matters worse it was raining on and off for the 3 to 4 hours, so this job was not so fun :eek:

Also, because the car is not lifted in order to set the Camber and the location of the bolt/ nut, made the job a pain.

I measured with a custom tool, wheel plate, level, & tape measure.
I did not finish and had to move the car before double checking the Camber or resetting the toe wich did go off by 4 mm.

So Tuesday i am going to bring her to the Mechanic and i don't think i want to do it again. :D

Walt
Hello again,
No don't do it again.
Mine is still on going, the kit I thought would work didn’t.
There is something wrong with the back end or bent causing the alignment specs not to be reached. I have to fight with Toyota this Friday on getting it fixed.
Since I have only driven the rav on the street and I have never been in a accident. It is a little weird the back end is so out of whack.

Justin
 

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The RAV went in for an alignment today at a Suspension Shop.

I had suspected that the washer Cam, which sits opposite and connects to the Camber Adjust Cam, had limited movement. Seeing it when the car was jacked up proved that.

The Camber Adjust Cam itself did adjust fully.
I asked the mechanic if he thought that an after market Cam washer was available. He said it did not matter because the Lower Suspension arm could not go back any further for it hit the Rear Suspension member (flange that the arm connects to).

Before starting the Camber on both backs was –1.
After a lot of banging he was able to get the Right Camber to -.6 and the left to to -.9 . I think if he pounded the left side as much as the right he may have gotten it to .6 too..

The RAV specs indicate a MAX of -1.6 and a MIN of -.1 Deg.

So it is unfortunate for me that the rear suspension is designed this way. For most others with OEM setup it isn’t much of an issue.

As for the Front alignment, the Toe was out on one wheel. I think it was when a friend hit a curb under the snow last year.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
waltrav said:
The RAV went in for an alignment today at a Suspension Shop.

I had suspected that the washer Cam, which sits opposite and connects to the Camber Adjust Cam, had limited movement. Seeing it when the car was jacked up proved that.

The Camber Adjust Cam itself did adjust fully.
I asked the mechanic if he thought that an after market Cam washer was available. He said it did not matter because the Lower Suspension arm could not go back any further for it hit the Rear Suspension member (flange that the arm connects to).

Before starting the Camber on both backs was –1.
After a lot of banging he was able to get the Right Camber to -.6 and the left to to -.9 . I think if he pounded the left side as much as the right he may have gotten it to .6 too..

The RAV specs indicate a MAX of -1.6 and a MIN of -.1 Deg.

So it is unfortunate for me that the rear suspension is designed this way. For most others with OEM setup it isn’t much of an issue.

As for the Front alignment, the Toe was out on one wheel. I think it was when a friend hit a curb under the snow last year.
Yup found out myself the same thing with the rear end, designed that way. Yet I still got tire wear. So I have gotten the Toyota rep involved and I rotated the tires, got a Toyota alignment; (which they said it was out of alignment, no surprise there). So now we have a baseline to start from when my tires wear, Toyota has some explaining to do as well as fixing the issue. I have to bring it back to Toyota in three moths for a check up. If there is an issue, I will deal with the rep at that point. So stay tuned.

Cheers,
Justin
 

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Justin can you tell me how far up did they managed to get your rear Camber angle to?

My right side they achieved -.6 Max.

Later,

Walt
 

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Discussion Starter #18
waltrav said:
Justin can you tell me how far up did they managed to get your rear Camber angle to?

My right side they achieved -.6 Max.

Later,

Walt
Hello,
Camber angle is:
Lft rear= -1.96 -0.56 -1.20 -1.32
Rt rear= -1.96 -0.56 -1.80 -1.12
Thrust angle = -0.04

Hope this helps, it does not make sense to me.
justin
 

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Justin,

Ya that's confusing :roll:

There should be only one angle.

If the tire was 90 deg to the ground, then it would be O deg angle.

Manual says:

Any angle from -.1 to -1.6 deg. is acceptable

And -.8 is the best.

I prefer to have -.6 or -.4 which still falls less than -.1 which is good

Cheers, Walt
 
J

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I made alignment a condition of purchase (as I did on my S2000 when I bought it), before I took delivery. Cars are notoriously out of spec off the lot simply because they come over tied down in containers across the ocean. I ask for as close to dead on to nominal as possible.

In my experience, I've had more problems with rear toe eating tires over the past 23 years than camber, but what do I know... The rear tow on my RAV was waaaaay off before the dealer corrected it, glad I got them to fix it.
 
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