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Discussion Starter #3
Say what you will about them, but I didn't have to pay MSRP (although they tried), and they were the only dealership in the area that could locate one out of state with everything I wanted. Ordered 2/15, got it 3 weeks later 3/8. Some folks have been waiting for weeks on end! :cry:

OC
 

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You Rochesterian's have suggestions for other dealers in the area? I've submitted for online quotes a few times. Dorschel never followed up like they were supposed to. Hoselton's been great. I've spoken with them a couple of times and gone in for test drives. They were so low-pressure, it was almost bizarre! Almost as if they didn't want to sell me a car. Last time I was there, they said they were selling the 06 Rav's at $500 below MSRP. Problem is, they didn't have one, and couldn't find one, with side airbags. Saturday, the guy calls and says he can now order one with side airbags, but that in the northeast all the RAV's with side airbags also have the third row seat. I've felt thwarted by this lack of choice.

Any thoughts?
 
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Hey,
I got My RAV4 From LeBrun Toyota in Canandaguia, for $20,400 , plus they paid my trade as much as I wanted $22,900
Dorshell was so much presure!!! and it would cost me $21,000 for Rav4, and trade was only 20,500 .
Hoselton was no presure I like that, low price but it would cost me about $21,000 with them only I did not like silver car again.and trade was same 22,900
Vanderstine was ok presure but their price was about $21,000 and trade was about $ 21,00 and stuff.
Also Basil was offer prety clouse but never got their, also the color was silver their was $20,800 and trade between $22,000-$23,000
So I got $22,900 for my trade and Rav4 price was $20,400
This is my buying experiense in Rochester they MSRP was $21,500 all the same.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Went in on a clean deal, told them no trade, no financing, take my cash or leave it. Hoselton couldn't find the car I wanted on a swap, told me I would have to order from factory, wait 8-12 weeks. Same at Vanderstyne, no pressure at either one. Dorschel said they could locate one and swap, I'd have it in 2-3 weeks. They also asked full MSRP, and as I started towards the door, asked me to make an offer. Offered them Edmund's TMV price minus $100 which was about halfway between invoice and MSRP, not too bad a deal for a loaded V6, and they went for it. Three weeks later I got what I wanted, couldn't have done better with a factory order. Although I still consider this a long deal due to the short supply and big demand for the RAV V6's, I was impressed that they had enough pull to find what I wanted in such a short time.

Any way you look at it, you're gonna have to play their supply and demand game - unless you wait until a few months from now.

OC :roll:
 
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hey OCInsomniac,

I thing because "Went in on a clean deal, told them no trade, no financing, take my cash or leave it."

That why you got better to deal with any one

My was different story a little
 
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Well why is that?
When I finance my rav4 the credit managers offer me 7.09% for 72 mouth, but i told him the going rate right now is 6.9% for 72 mouth, and if he cant do that I'll get finance from my bank or FCU, so he go me the 6.9%, and that he started to say that he all ready figure extra warranty in to payment automticly :evil: I ask how much is to by the warranty he said O its only about a thousand, :x I told that I dont need no extra warranty, he go mad :x and did even said bye or shake hands, there go he profit :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Dnipro said:
"I thing because 'Went in on a clean deal, told them no trade, no financing, take my cash or leave it.That why you got better to deal with any one My was different story a little"
Actually, Vitaly, they came right out and told me they make more money with financing and trades. I'm the kind of guy they want to see at the end of the month when they are trying to meet their monthly quota.

I also explained that I bought three new cars from Van Bortel Subaru within the past six years. Asked them if they wanted to establish a relationship like that or do they just want to try to dig deep into my pockets - didn't take 'em long to accept my offer!!

OC :wink:
 
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Whether you have a trade or not, finance or pay cash.... you still have the same opportunity to negotiate.

The only difference is that if you have a trade, you can be shown a trade "allowance" which means that you are not really getting all of the money as trade value, some of it is an "allowance" which means discount off sticker.
 
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well, I got price from every dealer for RAV4 and cheapest was $20,400 with MSRP $21,500, so than I go and tell him I want $22,900 for my trade, and check it out and sad Ok, you have a Deal, so what is trade allowence?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Basil Toyota Internet Mgr said:
The only difference is that if you have a trade, you can be shown a trade "allowance" which means that you are not really getting all of the money as trade value, some of it is an "allowance" which means discount off sticker.
Which means in essence, it may appear that you are getting a discount off MSRP on the purchase price, but you are getting the short end of the stick on your trade in. The best way to go into a deal is to sell your own vehicle outright, unless the lesser value of a trade in will be offsetted by a lower sales tax on the purchase , which is easy to calculate. Unfortunately, this isn't always possible as there are often time constraints on selling your old vehicle. Also, it is always best to negotiate the price on invoice plus rather than MSRP minus.

Now Basil T I Mgr, educate everyone on how the dealers still attempt to pad profits with useless dealer add-ons such as rustproofing, paint sealant protection, fabric guard, and extended warranties that run concurrent with the manufacturer's warranties. I appreciate your being candid on the subject of "Trade In Allowance", and it's good for all prospective buyers to see things from the dealers' perspective on this website!

OC :wink:
 
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I think you got that backwards. :D I think you meant to say that" it appears that you are getting a good deal on the trade, but you are getting the short end on the discount."

My point was simply that you can still negotiate the discount with or without the trade. But you have to have realistic trade value in mind. Sometimes if you are upsidedown in your trade, you want more than it's worth (and who wouldn't?) but that is just not possible.

Anything that anyone sells is sold to make a profit. But that does not deem a product useless.

If the Rochester dealers don't have a display, come check ours out. Fabric Guard is absolutely amazing. With this stuff on your seats, liquid beads up and wipes off. No stains. You can watch first hand with a sample. The paint sealant does the same for the exterior of the vehicles. We have a display in our showroom for this as well. Rust proofing and undercoating is an extra layer to protect the vehicle. This is not a bad thing to have in Western NY. People in other regions may not need this so much - especially if the vehicle is garage kept.

Extended warranties do just that.... they extend the manufacturer warranty. In fact, the best time to get an extended warranty is when the car is brand new. It costs less for an ext warranty if you buy one before the manufacturer warranty is expired. If you wait, you can still get one, but waiting gives the appearance that something is wrong with the vehicle, and so it will cost more to add after the fact. I have an extended warranty on my sienna that has more than paid for itself because I needed two new motors for my power sliding doors. Hehehe the more features and options you get....the higher the likelihood that something will break. A warranty guarantees that you will not have to pay too much out of pocket to fix these things.

Guess what? You can also negotiate the price of the warranty. AND, if you're hesitant about whether or not you'll need to use it... there is an option to get reimbursed if you never make a claim before the warranty expires. How could it be any better than that??? AND you can cancel it at any time before it expires for a prorated refund, or you can use it as a selling point to resell to a third party because the warranty is on the car, not on you. **Also, be sure to tell a dealer if you have an extended warranty on your trade. It may cover some of the things that they want fixed in order to give you the value that you are looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Who needs an extended warranty on a Toyota that in my case, will probably belong to someone else just before the powertrain warranty expires. That's one reason why I bought Toyota = QC = reliability.

It's unbelievable that the dealers are still openly pushing the high profit, aftermarket crap e.g. rustproofing, fabric guard , paint sealant, etc. Doesn't anyone read Consumer Reports or the major auto magazines, or visit the auto websites. Just read Edmunds recent article "Confessions of A Car Salesman" (wish I had the link). One of their reporters went undercover by getting a job as a salesman at a domestic and Japanese import dealership. Lengthy article but very enlightening. I was aware of many of these tactics long before reading this article - my father was a salesman many years past at a local Buick dealership.

The best thing you can do to make friends and new customers on this website is to let 'em know when those V6's roll in, and let 'em negotiate over invoice!

OC
:wink:
 
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That was not a sales pitch. It was my 100% honest opinion. If I did not work where I do, I would still feel the same.

Like I said, I have an 01 Sienna that needed two power sliding door motors replaced recently. I still have powertrain, but my 3yr/36k is expired. Powertrain does not cover things like that. It cost me out of pocket $0. The cost of the repair was almost twice as much as a Platinum 7 yr/ 100k extended warranty with a $0 deductible on a new Sienna . I apologize for the the Sienna analogy, but I am just making a point that repairs are sometimes necessary and Toyota parts are not cheap. If I never used the warranty, I would get money back. How is that taking advantage of a customer?
 
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"Which means in essence, it may appear that you are getting a discount off MSRP on the purchase price, but you are getting the short end of the stick on your trade in. The best way to go into a deal is to sell your own vehicle outright, unless the lesser value of a trade in will be offsetted by a lower sales tax on the purchase , which is easy to calculate. Unfortunately, this isn't always possible as there are often time constraints on selling your old vehicle. Also, it is always best to negotiate the price on invoice plus rather than MSRP minus."

So OCInsomniac,
I can sell my trade car for about $24,900 I'll get 2k more, but I'll have to pay NY Sales tax, I'll be at the same thing. Only to trade was easyer, and my trade worth more than my new I should get tax back from NYS :x

With all the extra aftermarket add on, not worth it for me because I never had car more than 2 years, but the Credit Manager still want to sell me extra warranty. :evil: Pushy
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Basil Toyota Internet Mgr said:
If I never used the warranty, I would get money back. How is that taking advantage of a customer?
Simple economics - I would rather have the money that you would have me spend on a seven year extended warranty, put it into one of my mutual funds, and it will be worth much more after being invested for seven years, than if you give me back the same principal amount in seven years.

I have purchased nearly a dozen new cars over the past 20 years and never had repairs which would have exceeded the cost of an "extended rip off warranty" - a bad insurance policy which is what you are advocating!! Take some lessons from Kitty Van Bortel, the nation's highest volume Subaru dealer from Rochester, NY, and a class act - sell everyone $200 - $300 over invoice and don't push the dealer add-on for profit crap!!!!

OC :roll:
 
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My mother in law bought extendet warranty for her camry and no she had for 6 years and not 1 probleme but extendet warranty expire at 5 years and there goes the grand if not more,
I't worthless just throwing money out I think never bought it and never will
 
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OC,

Again, I'm not pushing it. I'm not even offering it. I'm not the F&I person. I'm just giving my opinion like everyone else in the forum.

The whole reason I am posting on this forum is because my husband saw a posting... actually it was from you, I believe, about internet managers not responding with quotes.....then he saw what people were paying....my dealership happens to be very customer friendly, and extremely aggressive with pricing.

I am posting my deal on here as a courtesy to help everyone that has been shopping get a good deal on a new Rav. My deal - on a high demand vehicle - is $500 over invoice. If I remember correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you paid more than this for your Rav. I also remember reading that you were OK with the price that you paid because of "supply and demand".

In another thread you wrote " Offered them TMV figure from Edmunds website less $100, and they accepted. Came to about halfway between invoice and MSRP. Still a longggggggg deal, I usually never pay $200 - 300 over invoice, but had to have my RAV4, and soon, since I already sold my car it is replacing, and must give possession to new owner this weekend. The price we have to pay for bad timing and a high demand, low supply vehicle. "

FYI - for the price that you paid, you could have had both the Rav and an extended warranty. This is not a shot at you, just a point.

So please don't tell me to take a lesson from another dealer.
 
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