Toyota RAV4 Forums banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts
J

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all. I just bought an 05 last night and had the dealer check/correct the alignment before I took delivery. It was off (new cars always seem to be out of spec from the boat trip over), but I don't think they got it completely right. I could only find 01 alignment specs on the internet and I thought I read that they are the same from 01-05. Anyway, here's what the corrected settings are on my RAV (assumed factory specs are in parens):

Front:

Camber -0.7 -0.8 (-0.20)
Caster 2.0 2.2 (2.0)
Toe 0.040 0.030 (0.040)
Steer Ahead 0.000 (???)

There's no 'Steer Ahead' listed on the factory specs, just an item called 'SAI', and the measurement is 10.45 - I don't know what the correlation is, if any.

Rear:

Camber -0.8 -1.1 (0.55)
Toe 0.130 0.130 (0.120)
Thrust Angle 0.00

Looks like just camber is out of whack front and rear, not sure why they didn't get it closer. Hell, rear camber is negative when it should be positive (according to what I found). Looks like another trip to the dealer.

I don't know what Thrust Angle is, nor is there a corresponding factory spec. listed. I'm assuming that it should be as close to zero as possible because I would think that it's the angle at which the car is 'pushed' down the road as a result of the combination of alignment settings.

Can someone please help explain? I searched the forum and couldn't find anything. I understand what camber/caster/toe is, not sure about the rest. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
685 Posts
My '05 has excessive tire wear and scalloped the tires badly by 20k kms, so got a courtesy alignment from the dealer at an alignment shop as dealer doesn't have machine. Nothing was found out of spec, but some things were brought closer to nominal. I wish I had done this sooner. I intend to persue this with Toyota...........can't say I'm expecting much more than the standard answers...... :roll:

Alignment shop didn't have '05 specs in their machine, and were up front about it, but said they were the same as '04 specs, the latest they had.
Here they are:

Left and right front:
Min Nom Max
-1.08 -0.33 0.42 Camber
1.17 1.92 2.67 Caster
-0.04 0.04 0.13 Toe
????????? SAI

Front:
-0.75 0.00 0.75 Cross Camber
-0.75 0.00 0.75 Cross Caster
-0.08 0.08 0.25 Total Toe
??????? Set Back

Left and right rear:
-1.67 -0.92 -0.17 Camber
0.03 0.12 0.20 Toe

Rear:
0.07 0.23 0.40 Total Toe
??????????? Thrust Angle
 
J

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Bluenoser said:
My '05 has excessive tire wear and scalloped the tires badly by 20k kms, so got a courtesy alignment from the dealer at an alignment shop as dealer doesn't have machine. Nothing was found out of spec, but some things were brought closer to nominal. I wish I had done this sooner. I intend to persue this with Toyota...........can't say I'm expecting much more than the standard answers...... :roll:

Alignment shop didn't have '05 specs in their machine, and were up front about it, but said they were the same as '04 specs, the latest they had.
Here they are:

Left and right front:
Min Nom Max
-1.08 -0.33 0.42 Camber
1.17 1.92 2.67 Caster
-0.04 0.04 0.13 Toe
????????? SAI

Front:
-0.75 0.00 0.75 Cross Camber
-0.75 0.00 0.75 Cross Caster
-0.08 0.08 0.25 Total Toe
??????? Set Back

Left and right rear:
-1.67 -0.92 -0.17 Camber
0.03 0.12 0.20 Toe

Rear:
0.07 0.23 0.40 Total Toe
??????????? Thrust Angle
Based on that, my corrected specs are fine, except that my front camber is more off than I would like. I think they might set it like that to 'enhance' the way it feels.

As for scalloping, I've always found that too much toe causes this and it doesn't need to be off a whole lot to cause it. I'm always a dick about the toe being set to as close to exact as possible. Most of the time, average to crappy mechanics will settle for 'in spec' and call it a day, when in reality it will cost you new tires down the road sooner than you need them. Thanks for the info.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
685 Posts
Thanks for your tip re the toe, I checked the alignment results and that was the only adjustment they made in the front and scarcely touched the rear toe. But as you indicated neither was left at nominal ......!!%$#*&!! Have to wonder if they just bounced the rear bumper to get different numbers on the printout........???? :roll:
 
J

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Bluenoser said:
Thanks for your tip re the toe, I checked the alignment results and that was the only adjustment they made in the front and scarcely touched the rear toe. But as you indicated neither was left at nominal ......!!%$#*&!! Have to wonder if they just bounced the rear bumper to get different numbers on the printout........???? :roll:
Actually, I remember when I took my 02 Toyota MR2 (back in 2002) to Midas for an alignment, they set the rear toe to 0.40 instead of 0.04. It only took a few thousand miles to ruin the tires completely, they were scalloped beyond belief. I was an ass about it and they ended up paying for half of the price for new tires.
 
J

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
OK, here's what the dealer sent me. I have 235/60 tires, so I had to call and ask if that makes any of these settings different. Still waiting for a call back on that one.

*** RAV4 2001-2006 4x4 with 215/70R16 tires ***

Front (spec/tolerance):

Camber -0.3 -/+0.8
Caster 1.9 -/+0.8
Toe 0.04 -/+0.08

Rear: (spec/tolerance):

Camber -0.9 -/+0.8
Toe 0.12 -/+0.08
 
K

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Wheel Alignment

Hi All,

Is there anyone who can advise on a tale of woe with my '05 RAV4?

During a brief moment of lack of concentration, I clipped a kerb (one of those horrible speed calming chicanes which we have in abundance on some roads here in the UK) and so thought I'd better get the wheel alignment checked.

Popped it to the main dealer who reckoned that adjustments were required, and found that firstly my steering wheel was now slightly on the slant when driving in a straight line and the handling had now grossly deteriated.

I complained and returned the car to have these 'adjustments' put right. Sure enough the steering wheel was corrected, but the car still handled appallingly, the steering having gone far too light / vague and felt dangerous to drive.

It was returned again where I was told that it had been put back on the laser alignment equipment and found to be spot on. Also, the workshop manager (who owns a RAV4) took it for a test drive and commented that it handled just like his.

I took the car back, but it still handles appallingly, I dread to think what it'll be like once the English winter really bites and we have lots of snow & ice on the roads. I called again yesterday to complain, and was told that the best bet was to take the car out with the workshop manager and show him what I consider is wrong with the handling. No call from him today, so I contacted the dealer again and left another message - still no call back so far!!!! The steering wheel can be moved from side to side with very little effect on the wheels, extremely vague and dam-right dangerous!!

Anyone else seen / heard of this problem? I am so bothered by this I have contemplated selling the car!!

Any info / advice grately appreciated!!

KJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
Sounds like you bent something in the steering if your steering was off right-a-way. Have someone else check for bent components. They should have before they did the alignment but not all shops take the time.

M.
 
K

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Wheel Alignment

Hi Marcutio,

Thanks for your advice, but the 2nd time it went in they reckoned they'd checked to see if anything else was amiss. Also, immediately after I'd clipped the kerb, and for several days following the RAV didn't handle any differently from before. The only reason I took it in was to ensure that the alignment hadn't been knocked out so I didn't end up wearing my tyres out in no time.

So unless there's something which has suffered subtle damage (and I would have thought I'd have noticed whilst driving straight after the incident) I can only think that the alignment guide they are following is incorrect or the alignment machine need re-calibrating? The other thing they did initially was to swap the wheels from side to side apparently - I was wondering whether this might be it?

Cheers,
KJ
 
N

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I woud take it to another dealer and see what they say with the problem. I wouldn't mention about you clipping the curb, otherwise Toyota will not take responsibility to repair. At the same time I would inform Toyota customer services and complain about the problem you're having with the steering problem. Sorting car handling problem can costs you a lot time and money. If the problem was there as described by the dealer "Same as his car" then I would challenge Toyota to get it right.

One thing you want to try is to drive another RAV and compare to yours.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,936 Posts
(I know, old thread)

I'm headed in for a wheel align/balance in a few hours. When I removed my 235/60R16's I noticed some scalloping on the inside of a left and right tire. I just rotated them more than a thousand miles ago so can't tell if the wear was from the front or back. I do know the one I removed from the left rear had this wear pattern.

The tires I have now are even wider, 255/50R19's so want this alignment tailored more for wide tires. I usually try to set the camber to zero and adjust for road crown with the caster. I believe my tire wear issue comes from the negative rear camber.

When I had my last front end alignment on my 4Runner, I requested zero camber and adjust the caster for road crown and got a lecture from the alignment guy about messing with the factory specs, and don't you think Toyota knows what they're doing, etc. Turns out zero camber WAS within specs and he was able to do exactly that.

Has anyone tried zero camber on rear on their Rav?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,066 Posts
colchiro said:
(I know, old thread)

I'm headed in for a wheel align/balance in a few hours. When I removed my 235/60R16's I noticed some scalloping on the inside of a left and right tire. I just rotated them more than a thousand miles ago so can't tell if the wear was from the front or back. I do know the one I removed from the left rear had this wear pattern.

The tires I have now are even wider, 255/50R19's so want this alignment tailored more for wide tires. I usually try to set the camber to zero and adjust for road crown with the caster. I believe my tire wear issue comes from the negative rear camber.

When I had my last front end alignment on my 4Runner, I requested zero camber and adjust the caster for road crown and got a lecture from the alignment guy about messing with the factory specs, and don't you think Toyota knows what they're doing, etc. Turns out zero camber WAS within specs and he was able to do exactly that.

Has anyone tried zero camber on rear on their Rav?
If you do a search on Camber, Alignment, than I think you will find a few postings i did regarding the Rear Camber.
Due to the new tires / rims I have, and riding about 200 lbs light in the back, caused the Camber issue became a nightmare. Making a loud Howl at 45 mph..
I tried to do the adjustment myself with a custom tool that I made but could not push the camber back.
So I took it into a Suspension Shop and we could see clearly that the Camber adjustment was limited. The mechanic managed to hammer it to the Max.

I will look at the specs for you later,,, got to go out shopping,

Cheers, Walt :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,936 Posts
Well, I just got back from TiresPlus and told them I had a scalloping issue on the back and wanted the camber set as close to zero as possible, balance the tires and I wanted the wheels torqued. Didn't have a good feeling when I left and came back later to pick it up.

I paid the bill and glanced at the alignment, but since it was hard to read, thought I'd look it over when I got home. Filled with gas and noticed they had dropped the air pressure to 36. Closer examination of the alignment showed they didn't even touch the back and adjusted just the toe on the left. They left the front camber at -0.3°L and -0.5°R and the rear camber at -1.5°L and -1.4°R. I called the store and was told they open at 9:00 and they would get it on the lift ASAP when I got there.

My last front end align on my 4Runner (at a different store) was exactly 0.0° on the left and right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,936 Posts
waltrav said:
If you do a search on Camber, Alignment, than I think you will find a few postings i did regarding the Rear Camber.
Oh yeah, didn't take long to find that (and a lot more). :D

I think I'll let them slide on the front, but the back camber is near the max of -1.6° (left:-1.5, right: -1.4). I'd like to see them drop that 0.5-0.8°. The allowed range is -1.6° - 0.1°.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,066 Posts
colchiro said:
waltrav said:
If you do a search on Camber, Alignment, than I think you will find a few postings i did regarding the Rear Camber.
Oh yeah, didn't take long to find that (and a lot more). :D

I think I'll let them slide on the front, but the back camber is near the max of -1.6° (left:-1.5, right: -1.4). I'd like to see them drop that 0.5-0.8°. The allowed range is -1.6° - 0.1°.
My Rear camber is now -0.9 left and -0.6 right....
Like I said this is with as much pounding and prying that could be safely done.

Toyota says it can go to -0.1 but that's not reality.

Anyhow like I said, for my car it is an issue with the weight loss in the rear & the mods done.

Colchiro definitely be their when they do it. I try to be polite and intrusive.


Cheers, Walt :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,936 Posts
Polite is easy (I'm not a screamer), but in the past, if it wasn't right, don't expect me to come back. I know that's not right and management wants you to be happy so you'll come back, but I don't like confrontation.

When I placed the order, the guy was putting it into the computer and wasn't writing or typing my instructions. You can't tell me they have a checkboxes for the items I requested (owner requests zero camber and hand torque). :?

Now that I know how to read their alignment printout, it'll be right before I leave. I had scalloping with 60 series tires, I don't want to ruin a new set of 50's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,936 Posts
Just got back from TiresPlus. The attendant tried to tell me the rear camber was within specs. I pointed out to him it was at the high range of the specs and I had complained of tire wear when I came in and had asked to have the camber set lower. He said he'd see if his mechanic could bring it down.

One extremely boring hour later I was told they had tried for an hour, but couldn't break loose the adjusting nuts and that I'd probably have to have it rebuilt or rotate my tires every 3,000 miles. I thanked him for trying. Oh, he also pointed out the leaking rear differential seal. (Why wasn't that pointed out to me when they did their free 24 pt. inspection the day before?) :?
 
B

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I have done a lot of work on these settings myself if you look for my past postings.

The camber error is not the main cause of scolloping and heel & toeing of the tread block I suspect. All less camber does is spread the stress accross more rubber which helps to reduce the effect. Also buying tyres with angle or curved cut outer tread grooves will help.

I believe the real cause is the 4WD system. forward and backward tread stress is caused by a difference in speed or drag of the front wheels versus the back wheels which might be caused by resistance in the centre differential. This is why a normal 4WD cannot be used in bitumen.

Of course nobody at Toyota or even wheel alignment have the slightest clue so it is no use talking to so called experts. You have to do a bit of deduction yourself.

Brian
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top