Toyota RAV4 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Interesting 4.3 RAV4 competitor. I was never interested in the Saturn Vue (owned since 2003), Toyota RAV4, or Mitsubishi Outlander until they redesigned them, but now they all are pretty interesting offerings. The new Colt and Spyder have been getting high marks, so this could be much better than prior Mitsubishi products. This one is rumored to have around 250HP and its a PZEV (Vue and RAV are dirtier ULEV II engines).

Outlander looks to have a great mix of features. In Japan this vehicle has been out for about 6 months and is selling much better than predicted (2X as much as predicted). The new Outlander won the 2005 Good Design Award, in the Product Design Category, sponsored by the Japan Industrial Design Promotion Organization.









source: Response.jp

Mitsubishi Motors to Unveil New V6-powered, 6 Speed AT Equipped Outlander for North American Market at New York International Automobile Show

Tokyo, March 29 2006 — Mitsubishi Motors will announce the North American market version of the Outlander SUV model at the upcoming New York Auto Show. Launched in Japan in October last year, Outlander brings a new-feel product concept that marries mainline SUV functionality and design with sedan-like handling and ride. Outlander has enjoyed strong popularity among Japanese consumers with orders reaching about 20,000 units for the new model in the 5.5 months since its launch — well exceeding the 2,000 unit monthly sales target. To be held at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center, the New York International Automobile Show opens to the press and media on April 12 and to the general public on April 14.

The North American Outlander will be powered by a new high performance, low emissions, and low fuel consumption 3-liter V6 MIVEC*1 engine together with a 6-speed automatic transmission to deliver outstanding acceleration and high-speed cruising performance.

The new Outlander offers a choice of drive formats: the electronically controlled 4WD system that has received high acclaim in Japan; and a front-wheel drive version specially tailored to the North American market.
As on the Japan market model, the new Outlander will use a newly design high-rigidity platform that realizes improved impact safety and an aluminum roof panel that lowers center of gravity and reduces roll inertia for improved handling performance and ride. Outlander also offers outstanding utility performance with a split tailgate ("Flap-fold tailgate") that facilitates the loading of different sizes and weights of luggage and with an available 7-seat layout that features two occasional-use third row seats stored flat under the floor ("Underfloor-stowable compact 3rd row seat"). Outlander also features Mitsubishi's Sportronic steering wheel paddle shifters that allow the driver to change gear manually without having to take his hand off the steering wheel.
Mitsubishi Motors began revamping its car engine lineup in 2004 to a common theme of high performance, low fuel consumption, low weight, and compact size. The new 3-liter V6 MIVEC engine powering the North American Outlander is the fourth new engine in this theme, following the 4A9-type 4-cylinder 1.3 and 1.5-liter units that power the European Colt launched in May 2004 (and the Japanese Colt from October 2004), the 4B1-type 4-cylinder 2.4-liter unit that powers the Japanese Outlander launched in October 2005 and the 3B2-type 3-cylinder 660cc engine that powers the i minicar launched in Japan in January this year.

Like the other members of the new engine lineup the 3-liter V6 MIVEC engine incorporates many advanced features including an aluminum cylinder block, a resin variable air induction system, and Mitsubishi's own MIVEC variable valve timing system to generate best-in-class output and torque. The new power unit achieves this higher performance while being about 25 kg lighter, and realizing about 5% better fuel economy, than its 6G7-type 3-liter V6 predecessor. In addition, the use of a high-performance catalytic converter means that the North American Outlander is expected to receive the Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (PZEV) designation under California emissions standards (according to in house testing).

The Outlander will be joined at the New York International Automobile Show by 9 other models including the new Eclipse Spyder convertible and the 2007 special edition Galant Ralliart mid-size luxury sports sedan due to go on sale this autumn.

...

The all-new 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander is on the leading edge of versatility, technology, and value in the crossover SUV segment. The 2007 Outlander debuts the all-new 3.0L V6 MIVEC engine and features a standard six-speed Sportronic(R) automatic transmission with one-touch manual shifting and adaptive electronics. The Outlander XLS adds rally inspired Sportronic steering wheel paddle shifters for shifting control at the driver's fingertips. All Wheel Control (AWC), an advanced version of all-wheel drive is available. An innovative two-piece flap-fold rear tailgate makes cargo loading easy, and an in-floor stowable third-row seat adds to the XLS model's versatility. Technology is one of the hallmarks of the new Outlander, including a standard Bluetooth(R) hands-free cellular phone interface, advanced FAST-Key access system, and optional 650-watt Rockford Fosgate(R) audio system and DVD entertainment. A new hard-drive navigation system option will be state of the art.

Older PR:

Not Surprisingly On-Road Performance and Versatility Key Selling Points

Last month, Mitsubishi Motors Corporation unveiled its completely revised Outlander sport utility, in the metal, at the Tokyo Motor Show, previously released to the media only in photos.

Mitsubishi is claiming the all-new SUV is midsize, due to its new platform and larger overall dimensions, and possibly in Japan, where it was launched in dealerships October 17th this is so, although in North America the Outlander will be positioned as a large compact model.

Its seven-occupant capability puts it in competition with few compact SUV players, Suzukis XL-7, which is due for a complete overhaul soon, and Toyotas all-new 2006 RAV4 being the only two - so far.

Riding on a larger, stiffer chassis architecture made of high-tensile steel sheeting, which is touted to offer much better crashworthiness than the previous Outlander, is a more powerful, more efficient aluminum block 2.4-liter MIVEC (Mitsubishi Innovative Valve-timing Electronic Control system) enhanced four-cylinder, a new global engine that comes as a result of a cooperative relationship with DaimlerChrysler (Dodge Caliber, Jeep Compass/Patriot) and Hyundai (next-generation Elantra/base Sonata and Kia Spectra/Magentis). The new engine will be mated to a "Sport Mode" paddle-shift-actuated 6-speed CVT, that in-turn will drive all four wheels. Mitsubishis 4WD system is electronically controlled, continuously optimizing front and rear wheel torque depending on road conditions. It includes three dial-activated drive modes, including 2WD, 4WD AUTO and 4WD LOCK. As is now becoming common in the SUV segment, active stability control is also part of the package. The new drivetrain helps the Outlander achieve a four-star rating for emission levels, which means that it leaves 75 percent fewer emissions in its wake than required by Japanese 2005 Emission Regulations, helping it qualify for Green Vehicle Tax Exemption by returning fuel consumption that is 5 percent lower than Japanese 2010 efficiency requirements.

Other highlights include a new aluminum roof panel, to reduce weight and lower its center of gravity, plus a new MacPherson strut front and trailing arm multilink suspension with mono-tube rear shock absorbers, which join a wider track and longer stroke to increase stability, while additional "advanced technology" Mitsubishi first developed on its famed Lancer Evolution sport sedan is also part of the package, designed to leave traditional off-road SUVs in the preverbal dust. Its optional 18-inch 5-spoke lightweight high-rigidity alloy rims wrapped in 225/55R18 all-season performance tires should help in the handling department too.

As previously mentioned, the new Outlander will be one of few compact SUVs to offer up to seven-occupant seating - that optional package dubbed Smart X Sport and featuring a third row that conveniently folds flat into the floor. That makes for class-leading storage space of between 27.3 and 31.1 cubic feet, depending on whether the second row of seats is slid forward or backward, when five occupants are aboard. When the second row is folded flat, via a process that Mitsubishi says takes only a flick of a switch, cargo volume increases to a massive 59.7 cubic feet.

Getting gear inside should be easier thanks to a handy split tailgate, allowing smaller items to be loaded in through the top section and larger cargo if the entire fifth door is lifted up. That bottom section can handle up to 440 pounds of what-have-you, making it ideal for heavy luggage and/or a place to sit down.

Mitsubishi rarely takes its vaunted street cred for granted, and therefore offers an optional premium sound system that could make top-tier luxury buyers jealous. The Rockford Fosgate system didnt only provide a nine-speaker, 650-watt DSP system to out-rock, out-rap, or out-whatever any other OEM system in the compact SUV segment, but it designed the system to work specifically within the framework of the new Outlander, and even had Mitsubishi stiffen the doors to negate any potential vibration. The popular audio supplier developed a similar system for Mitsubishis new Eclipse, and the result is otherworldly.

Overall, the interior is unique in its choice of motifs, with Mitsubishi opting for a motorbike look to appeal to young, adventurous buyers. Its unique for sure, but then again not so radical that less adventurous buyers will be offended.

In Japan, at least, the new Outlander will be available in eight body colors, but the automaker isnt saying which ones - only that theyll have strong outdoor cues. Inside, black and silver offers a sporting appeal over luxury.

The new Outlander will be built in Japan at Mitsubishis revamped Mizushima Plant, where a new welding line has been added. Despite the cooperative arrangement with DaimlerChrysler and Hyundai, the engine will be produced at Mitsubishis Shiga Engine Plant, which has also been updated to include "state-of-the art machining and assembly lines." Mitsubishi is also boasting improved quality assurance levels "throughout the full development-to-shipment chain." The Japanese automaker further states, "Outlander is the product of stringent scrutiny and inspections implemented through the Mitsubishi Motors Development System (MMDS) in the development phase and the multi-level In-Stage Quality Creation (ISQC) system on the production line." In other words, this Outlander will be better built and more reliable than anything Mitsubishi has developed in the past.


 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
BTW this vehicle came out before the redesigned RAV4 premiered, so it was Toyota who copied the Outlander's C-pillar design. It also outsells the RAV4 in Japan :shock:
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
flyingn said:
dead ringer for the 06 RAV. I take that as a compliment from Mitsu. Tho it will never be a Toyota..
The new Outlander came out October 17, 2005 in Japan BEFORE the 06 RAV two months later, so Mitsu takes that as a compliment from Toyota - they were first.

Also the new Outlander has gotten rave reviews in Japan (where it was released 6 months ago) and it still outsells the younger RAV4 despite having a sliver of the overall car market compared to Toyota's 51%. Thats pretty telling if the home market users like it better than the RAV4. Also its based on the new EVO X platform 8)

In the US Mitsu has a rep for being pretty reliable but I've heard bad things about the dealers. Of course I have a Saturn which has had JD's number one top spot more times than any other company and I hate my Saturn service department - they are idiots and I've been back there 3-4 times for problems and they still can't fix them (all noise/rattled issues related). Who knows if CR and JD's ratings really mean anything - they didn't make my service experience any better :evil:
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Fifth Gear test

Three things we like:

1) Styling
2) Well designed interior
3) Painless on-road driving dynamics.

Three things we're not mad on:

1) Thrashy CVT transmission (not applicable to NA version)
2) Limited off-road ability (duh its a CUV)
3) Having to wait until 2007.
Big thread with lots of pictures

For reference, here is what they thought of the new RAV4 at 5th Gear:

We like:

1) Well designed cabin.
2) Tough construction.
3) Strong diesel engines.

We don't like:

1) Bland styling.
2) Gutless petrol engine.
3) Lacks visual excitement of rivals.

Best and worst:

Most fun: 175 bhp D4D
Most sensible: 135 bhp D4D
Worst: 2.0 petrol.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Has the same turning radius as the new RAV4 and similiar size. Weighs about 30 lbs. less in similiar seating/4 cylinder arrangement. Full details on the Japanese version translated here:

Translated specs

Amazing specs if we get all those features here :shock:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,559 Posts
syadasti said:
The new Outlander came out October 17, 2005 in Japan BEFORE the 06 RAV two months later, so Mitsu takes that as a compliment from Toyota - they were first.
Announcement dates mean absolutely nothing in the automotive world except to marketing folk. :roll:

According to accounts I've read in more than one article out there, Toyota's engineers and designers started working on the 2006 RAV4 at least two years before it was announced, likely even longer.

And there is absolutely no way the Outlander can achieve a true PZEV rating unless it is completely shutting down the engine while it's in motion. (Like a hybrid that can run independently on electric motors)
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
karrock said:
And there is absolutely no way the Outlander can achieve a true PZEV rating unless it is completely shutting down the engine while it's in motion. (Like a hybrid that can run independently on electric motors)
Actually you are absolutely wrong and other companies have made PZEV vehicles in the same way Mitsubishi is going to:

See this article from the Green Car Congress.

The Ford Fusion and the Mercury Milan will be Ford’s third and fourth PZEV vehicles, following the Escape Hybrid and the Focus PZEV. (Mazda and Volvo, also part of Ford, have six in total.)

To qualify as a PZEV, vehicles need to meet three basic criteria:

-Meet the Super Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle standard (SULEV)

-Eliminate fuel-system evaporative emissions

-Ensure these criteria will be met for an extended lifetime of 15 years or 150,000 miles

(Mazda, partly owned by Ford, has two PZEV models, and Volvo has four. GM, by comparison, has none. Toyota has two—the Prius (AT-PZEV) and the Camry (PZEV); Honda has six: Insight, Civic Hybrid, Civic GX, three Accord models, including the hybrid.)

To attain PZEV rating, Ford made a number of improvements to the induction, calibration and exhaust systems of the Duratec 23 to achieve LEV II certification. From that point, the powertrain team identified ignition and evaporative emissions to qualify for PZEV certification.

Current California PZEVs (non-electric)
Automaker PZEV models
GM 0
Ford (w/Fusion/Milan) 4
Mazda (Ford) 2
Volvo (Ford) 4
DaimlerChrysler 2
Toyota/Lexus 3
Honda 5
Nissan 2
BMW 1
Hyundai-Kia 2
Mitsubishi 1
Subaru 2
Volkswagen 2
As it says in the Mitsubishi PR above, they'll meet the PZEV by working their engine emissions through, "use of a high-performance catalytic converter"

Got any other half-baked claims yet :lol:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,559 Posts
The only reason there is now a list that large of "supposedly" PZEV vehicles is because the auto manufacturers successfully petitioned the EPA to reduce the requirements for emissions standards. PZEV used to require a 10 from its Air Pollution Score (which are accounted for solely by hybrids) and it was dropped to a 9.5 -- plenty of other wholesale changes across the board. In reality, there aren't more new vehicles on the road with lower emissions, the standards were just relaxed to make it appear so. So no. I do not consider this new crop of PZEV vehicles to be "true" PZEV.

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/about.htm

Speaking of half-baked claims, why are you comparing reviews from a British automotive publication where the vehicles' powertrain specifications are nothing like what we will receive in North America?

So... You're saying that in the month's time that Mitsu debuted their Outlander and the premiere of the RAV4, that Toyota redesigned the exterior so that it would look like the Mitsu? LOL :lol: That's rich! :lol:

You certainly do seem to love that Outlander... :roll:
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
karrock said:
The only reason there is now a list that large of "supposedly" PZEV vehicles is because the auto manufacturers successfully petitioned the EPA to reduce the requirements for emissions standards. PZEV used to require a 10 from its Air Pollution Score (which are accounted for solely by hybrids) and it was dropped to a 9.5 -- plenty of other wholesale changes across the board. In reality, there aren't more new vehicles on the road with lower emissions, the standards were just relaxed to make it appear so. So no. I do not consider this new crop of PZEV vehicles to be "true" PZEV.
First off, its 2006 and according to 2006 regulations there are plenty of non-hybrid PZEV. It doesn't matter what you think, it matters what the government thinks. If you think a law isn't right and you break it, you still go to jail regardless of how you feel about it.

Second regardless of how good the rating system is, the current ULEV II 3.5L is still dirtier than any currently PZEV rated car.

Third, non hybrid cars have received a perfect 10, so in reality you are STILL WRONG:

PZEV? It stands for Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle (as if we needed another acronym), and, in the case of the 2003 ZTS [Ford Focus] we tested, it means this peppy four-banger doesn't emit any evaporative emissions from the fuel system. It also receives a perfect EPA antipollution score of 10, which classifies it as an SULEV. With an EPA rating of 25/33 mpg city/highway, it isn't as economical as a Prius or Honda's Civic Hybrid. But it is quicker, much more powerful, and cheaper to buy.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0402_2003_ford_focus_zts/

Speaking of half-baked claims, why are you comparing reviews from a British automotive publication where the vehicles' powertrain specifications are nothing like what we will receive in North America?
The only place publications can test drive the new Outlander is in Japan at that time. Not many people here can read Japanese reviews and no US mag has done a preview either. People are not only interested in powertrain performance. Especially in a utility vehicle - a performance SUV is a cruel marketing joke. A sedan or wagon will always outperform a jacked up tall wagon.

With all your redirection of this argument, its obvious you just have cognitive dissonance. Lucky for me I'm non-biased and can even knock products I own plus I haven't bought my new vehicle yet.

I am sure there are others with a 4.1 or 4.2 or other people who would be interested to hear about alternatives to the RAV4.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,066 Posts
The Design's nothing special.

As for Mitsubishi engines, well I had one in my Chrysler and that was the worst part of the car.
After 80,000 k the well treated and serviced engine would not pass Canadian emissions.
My neighbors Hondas and Toyotes had more k's and passed easily.

I had many other nighmares like 3 fried computers, countles replaced fuel injection sensors, corroded injector coupling and 2 fuel pumps (may have been Chryslers) that only last 40,000 k each.

Got rid of the car with only 90,000 k on it.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
mionee67 said:
The Design's nothing special.

As for Mitsubishi engines, well I had one in my Chrysler and that was the worst part of the car.
After 80,000 k the well treated and serviced engine would not pass Canadian emissions.
My neighbors Hondas and Toyotes had more k's and passed easily.
Yeah if thats nothing the new RAV4 is absolutely nothing considering it beats it in its home market. Its too bad you can't read Japanese.

As for Mitsubishi engines - they did a lot of sharing with Chrysler, and the only engines that Mitsubishi made are 6G72 and 6G73 in Chryslers.

Toyota's had sludge problems and Honda V6 (BTW GM's borrowed Honda J35 engine had the Honda engine/ecu/tranny but a GM made tranny cooler so there was no problem) had badly designed transmission cooling lines which lead to major failures, so those engines platforms aren't going to help you much either :wink:

Over 3 million quality Toyota sludge engines :lol:

Toyota models equipped with 3.3 million 1MZ V-6 and 5SFE inline 4 engines produced between July 1996 and July 2001

Camry, 4- and 6-cylinder, August 1996 to July 2001
Camry Solara, 4- and 6-cylinder, June 1998 to May 2001
Sienna, July 1997 to May 2001
Avalon, July 1996 to May 2001
Celica, 4-cylinder, August 1996 to April 1999
Highlander, November 2000 to July 2001
Lexus ES 300, August 1998 to July 2001
Lexus RX 300, January 1998 to July 2001

Source: Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A.
Over one million quality Honda V6 automatic transmissions
The recall involves approximately 600,000 light trucks manufactured in the U.S. and Canada. Affected models include certain model year 2002, 2003 and early 2004 Honda Odyssey minivans; 2003 and early 2004 Honda Pilots; and 2001 and 2002 Acura MDX sport-utility vehicles.

and later

TORRANCE, Calif., June 29, 2004 -- American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today announced that it will expand its existing voluntary recall of light truck models for a potential transmission defect to include certain Honda and Acura passenger cars. The voluntary action involves approximately 499,000 Honda and Acura passenger vehicles with V6 engines and 5-speed automatic transmissions. Affected models include certain 2003 and early 2004 model Accord V6 sedans and coupes, 2000-2003 and early 2004 Acura TL sedans, and 2001-2003 Acura CL coupes.
And like someone noted, CR even recommends the boring current Outlander and awards the Mitsubishi brand for having the 6 rated least defects per one hundred vehicles.

As I've said, cognitive dissonance owners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,066 Posts
Yeah if thats nothing the new RAV4 is absolutely nothing considering it beats it in its home market. Its too bad you can't read Japanese.
I am from Italian descent and studied in an Italian Auto design school so i don't know Japanese but i can tell you what is good design, and what it says :wink:

I don't usually go on in an argument about products or things people do in life. I always end up saying "buy it, or do it".
As long as they don't come to my lab asking to fix it. :lol:

Cheers, Walt
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
mionee67 said:
I don't usually go on in an argument about products or things people do in life. I always end up saying "buy it, or do it".
I haven't bought my new car yet but according to the sales figures, the Japanese public buys the new Outlander more than the new RAV4, so if thats your criteria - yes its more special to the Japanese than the RAV4.

These Japanese sales figures obviously don't guarantee anything as their most important values are different than the US.

If you take a look at the most popular models in the USA, US market places the most importance on reputation and price, not style and performance. Boring and cheap always wins here.

Obviously any brand can have major problems with their products as shown by those million plus engine/tranny recalls from the auto labels in the US perceived to be the top two best made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,066 Posts
I agree with many of the points you made and if in a few years if I should see Canadian consumer reports showing Mitsu’s with few repairs over many years, and intelligent friends swearing buy it, then I could not go against those facts.

The piece of #[email protected]% Chrysler that I had came with OEM Michelins that cracked and delaminated after 45 K. Michelin makes some of the finest tires so you wonder if Chrysler put the wrong spec. tire. Maybe it was not meant for the load, our harsh winters, or something else.

As for designs, I’m not thrilled with Mitsu. Same goes for Subaru, but from what I’ve read and heard for many years they make fine cars.

Did Mitsu make the Dodge Raider? A friend had one and had so many problems with it that he traded it in.

As for Toyota’s quality, I’ve read the reports, did my research and after buying it read plenty of great threads on it in this group about the 4.1 and 4.2 models.

Cheers,

Walt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
syadasti said:
Toyota's had sludge problems and Honda V6 (BTW GM's borrowed Honda J35 engine had the Honda engine/ecu/tranny but a GM made tranny cooler so there was no problem) had badly designed transmission cooling lines which lead to major failures, so those engines platforms aren't going to help you much either :wink:

Over 3 million quality Toyota sludge engines :lol:
Just for the record, I own an 02 Highlander with the "sludge" engine. I don't have a sludged engine and I think this was blown way out of proportion partly due to the internet.

Here is an excerpt from an article on this topic;

By Joe Kohn

Automotive News / February 08, 2002
...
In the scope of Toyota's millions-strong customer base, the approximately 3,100 consumers to date who have complained to the company about sludge - 2,400 Toyota owners and 700 Lexus owners - is microscopic. The group consists of less than .01 percent of Toyota owners in the United States.
...

That's actally a VERY small number of engines that were affected by sludge.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't too happy to get this notice from Toyota that my engine might sludge up. But I don't think the problem is anywhere near as bad the internet chatter made it out to be.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
seadragon said:
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't too happy to get this notice from Toyota that my engine might sludge up. But I don't think the problem is anywhere near as bad the internet chatter made it out to be.
Almost all recalls are of similiar nature - the manufacturer just wants to cover their ass so people don't sue them if they don't realize which exact group of vehicles has the issue.

Just look at the Ford Exploder - similar to this sludge recall not too many people where actually affected.

Also you have to keep in mind not everyone knows about the problem or reports it for whatever reason.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
:evil:

Full NA Specs

The specs are disappointing and to get the nice toys you have to buy a 7 seater XLS trim! 7 seats in CUV this size are stupid (not to mention Mitsubishi even calls them temporary). It also weighs nearly 3800 lbs in the top trim :?

Looks like I'll be getting the RAV4 instead :idea:
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top