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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In July of this year I brought my 2010 RAV4 to the dealer to get the suspension TSB done. At that time, the dealer said the TSB fix was no charge but that the vehicle needs an all wheel alignment after the TSB is applied, so I had them do that as well. Here it is 3 months later, I take the car to my local garage to do an oil change & filter and have the tires rotated. He points out to me that my rear wheels have some serious wear/cupping on the inside edges. (All tires were in excellent condition with plenty of tread, near new, at the time of the four wheel alignment.) So I tell him to rotate them anyways, and that I had a four wheel alignment just a few months ago, and I'll see how it goes from there. Now that the worn tires are on the front of the car, the car exhibits what I can only describe as a groaning at low speeds that grows to a howling as the car increases speed. At low speeds you can feel whatever is causing the groaning in the steering wheel. I'm baffled. Did the Toyo dealer mess up my alignment and cause the cupping? Is the tire wear responsible for the groaning/howling? Thoughts? Thanks!
 

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You might be right on all fronts. I am surprised that the dealer asked you to pay for alignment when the TSB was performed. Get them to recheck their alignment.

This nightmare is the reason I am not getting this TSB performed. Too many had dealers fnck up their alignment and then ask for $ for labour. Some dealers break the epoxy and readjust while others say that new parts are needed.
 

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In July of this year I brought my 2010 RAV4 to the dealer to get the suspension TSB done. At that time, the dealer said the TSB fix was no charge but that the vehicle needs an all wheel alignment after the TSB is applied, so I had them do that as well. Here it is 3 months later, I take the car to my local garage to do an oil change & filter and have the tires rotated. He points out to me that my rear wheels have some serious wear/cupping on the inside edges. (All tires were in excellent condition with plenty of tread, near new, at the time of the four wheel alignment.) So I tell him to rotate them anyways, and that I had a four wheel alignment just a few months ago, and I'll see how it goes from there. Now that the worn tires are on the front of the car, the car exhibits what I can only describe as a groaning at low speeds that grows to a howling as the car increases speed. At low speeds you can feel whatever is causing the groaning in the steering wheel. I'm baffled. Did the Toyo dealer mess up my alignment and cause the cupping? Is the tire wear responsible for the groaning/howling? Thoughts? Thanks!
This is just a really bad situation. If it were me, I'd get a little intense with the dealer. But then I'm super meticulous when it comes to my tires as I only buy the best and take really good care of them.

For what it's worth, I always inform the Service Writer/mechanic of the state of my mechanical bits before they do any work in a particular area. For example, before allowing an alignment, I'd probably say something like my tires are balanced, well aligned and show even wear on all fours. There are times I even have them write things right into the original work order.

I had a Service Writer try to "upsell" me on an alignment recently on my nearly pooched (down to about 3mm tread) yet perfectly worn tires ... I reminded her of my opening remarks when I took it in for service and she quickly retreated.

I also told her ... I appreciate her pointing out legitimate maintenance items that I should be aware of ... but I don't appreciate being treated like an ignoramus who is a "mark" for your monthly upsell sales targets. That usually catches their attention.
 

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Did the Toyota dealer mess up my alignment and cause the cupping? Is the tire wear responsible for the groaning/howling?
YES and yes!

I also told her ... I appreciate her pointing out legitimate maintenance items that I should be aware of ... but I don't appreciate being treated like an ignoramus who is a "mark" for your monthly upsell sales targets. That usually catches their attention.
Perfectly stated! Forceful w/o in-your-face.
 

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Perfectly stated! Forceful w/o in-your-face.
Thanks Dr. Dyno, I've grown to be more direct as I get older and have developed a healthy disdain for B.S. or shenanigans. ~ BugJr ~
 
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Thanks Dr. Dyno, I've grown to be more direct as I get older and have developed a healthy disdain for B.S. or shenanigans. ~ BugJr ~
Lately I have been getting the public shaming with the cabin filter in the waiting room trick at the dealer, plus the 'upsell' for the wheel alignment, hand sanding the brake rotors & fuel injector cleaning.

I simply asked where on the manufacturer's maintenance schedule does it says I needed these additional services. The service adviser would goes and prints off a Toyota schedule to show me. Of course she won't finds her recommended services because they are the 'Dealer Recommended' profit generator. If not on the schedule, no doing :)
 

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Lately I have been getting the public shaming with the cabin filter in the waiting room trick at the dealer, plus the 'upsell' for the wheel alignment, hand sanding the brake rotors & fuel injector cleaning.

I simply asked where on the manufacturer's maintenance schedule does it says I needed these additional services. The service adviser would goes and prints off a Toyota schedule to show me. Of course she won't finds her recommended services because they are the 'Dealer Recommended' profit generator. If not on the schedule, no doing :)
LOL! I like the "public shaming in the waiting room" thing!:laugh
 

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LOL! I like the "public shaming in the waiting room" thing!:laugh
I wrote the install date on all my filter so the stealer is not going to show me a dirty filter prop they may have for the public shaming . . . . . I would be ashamed if I paid them $52 for the cabin air filter they wanted to install.
 

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I wrote the install date on all my filter so the stealer is not going to show me a dirty filter prop they may have for the public shaming . . . . . I would be ashamed if I paid them $52 for the cabin air filter they wanted to install.
Well I paid the silly dollars as part of the first major service I had the dealer perform (brake line fluid replace etc.). First time ... shame on them. If I let them do it again, shame on me.

Where do you guys get your cabin filters? Also, I htink I read they are located somewhere in the top area of the glove box (bottom box I presume). Is this correct?
 

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Well I paid the silly dollars as part of the first major service I had the dealer perform (brake line fluid replace etc.). First time ... shame on them. If I let them do it again, shame on me.

Where do you guys get your cabin filters? Also, I htink I read they are located somewhere in the top area of the glove box (bottom box I presume). Is this correct?
Sorry for the topic hijack.:oops:

I have a discount on OEM parts so I stick with OEM, can't go wrong there.

Yes, the cabin air filter is behind the glove box. Pinch the lower connecting stub on the glove box door damper to release the damper from the door first. Using a little force to 'squeeze' inward the glove box bin 'wings' on the right and left so the bin can pivot forward. Hint: empty the bin before doing this or content will be all over floor:eek: You will now see a grey rectangular door that you can open by squeezing the right release tab to the left. Once the door is off, you can see the exposed cabin air filter. Exchange with a new filter, reverse part removal sequence to reassemble the filter door cover, the glove box bin, and reattach the door damper.

Take less time than to drink a beer . . . . unless you're a chugger :thumbs_up:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Did the Toyo dealer mess up my alignment and cause the cupping? Is the tire wear responsible for the groaning/howling? Thoughts? Thanks!
So, I wanted to follow up and let you know how things turned out. I took the car back to my local guy and had him UNrotate the tires so the Toyo dealer could see the car exactly as it was when the problem was brought to my attention. The noise was noticeably reduced with the tires on the back of the car, but the noise was still there.


At the dealer, I asked for the service manager and explained the problem. He had the car put up on the lift immediately and eventually walked me into the garage to show me their findings. The real issue with the tires was cupping; no real wear on the inside edges. Then he pointed out to me the tire manufacturer, which was Fuzion. Fuzion is CarMax's go-to tire for pre-owned vehicles. The service manager said that they had stopped using Fuzion tires on their own preowned vehicles for exactly the same reason: prone to cupping and very noisy. They also found that tire inflation was not optimal, which they corrected. And they also re-aligned the car and found that the front was slightly out. I went straight to Costco from there and had the Fuzion tires replaced with Bridgeston Dueler's to match the two I had on the front. Car is quiet as can be now. I thought the dealer went above and beyond to make me a happy customer and I was happy with the outcome.
 

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So, I wanted to follow up and let you know how things turned out. I took the car back to my local guy and had him UNrotate the tires so the Toyo dealer could see the car exactly as it was when the problem was brought to my attention. The noise was noticeably reduced with the tires on the back of the car, but the noise was still there.


At the dealer, I asked for the service manager and explained the problem. He had the car put up on the lift immediately and eventually walked me into the garage to show me their findings. The real issue with the tires was cupping; no real wear on the inside edges. Then he pointed out to me the tire manufacturer, which was Fuzion. Fuzion is CarMax's go-to tire for pre-owned vehicles. The service manager said that they had stopped using Fuzion tires on their own preowned vehicles for exactly the same reason: prone to cupping and very noisy. They also found that tire inflation was not optimal, which they corrected. And they also re-aligned the car and found that the front was slightly out. I went straight to Costco from there and had the Fuzion tires replaced with Bridgeston Dueler's to match the two I had on the front. Car is quiet as can be now. I thought the dealer went above and beyond to make me a happy customer and I was happy with the outcome.
i have had that issue with fuzion tires before and will never buy them again...keep an eye on it...
 
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