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Who did you oil change the last time? What oil filter did they use?

Cheap oil filters drain all the oil inside of them into the oil pan really quickly.

Good oil filters can keep oil inside for a while, so when you restart the engine there is oil available to lubricate the pistons while oil pressure builds up.

It doesn't sound like a rattle. It sounds like lack of oil.
 

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Who did you oil change the last time? What oil filter did they use?

Cheap oil filters drain all the oil inside of them into the oil pan really quickly.

Good oil filters can keep oil inside for a while, so when you restart the engine there is oil available to lubricate the pistons while oil pressure builds up.

It doesn't sound like a rattle. It sounds like lack of oil.
Bob, you must be thinking of the old spin-on oil filters. They had a check valve in them to prevent oil leakback. And yes, cheap oil filters had a cheap valve or no valve at all.

Since 2009, all RAV4's have cartridge type oil filters where the housing is unscrewed and only the filter element is changed. With this design, the check valve is a part of the engine and not the filter.
 

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Maybe the check valve is bad then?

It still sounds like lack of oil on a cold start.
 

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Found this.

T-SB-0041-13 March 15, 2013
Brief Engine Knock/Rattle Noise at Cold Startup
(1AR/2AR)

http://media.fixed-ops.com/Toy_ServiceBulletins/sb0041t13.pdf

The TSB does not include the 2013 RAV4 but it's the same 2AR engine.


I have a 2013 in the family that does have a similar rattle at start-up, but not as bad as in the video. I haven't paid attention to it before as it's kind of normal to have a little engine noise before oil pressure builds up.
 

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This TSB rattle does sound different from what is in the video posted here at the top and what my 2013 does.





This is what my 2013 sounds like.

 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Greetings All,
Just got off the phone with my local Toyota Dealer. They kept it for two nights just to be sure and said there wasn't anything wrong. I referenced the TSB and it is a different issue.

A backstory- I provide my oil to my local mechanic (Mobil 1 Full Synthetic- the MPG one) but not the oil filter. My guess is it is a Fram. New spark plugs, Bosch iridium. I'll probably order a Toyota branded oil filter to provide and see if that makes a difference.

The rattle is definitely more noticeable in cold weather, this was taken in 30-degree weather.
 

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A backstory- I provide my oil to my local mechanic (Mobil 1 Full Synthetic- the MPG one) but not the oil filter. My guess is it is a Fram. New spark plugs, Bosch iridium. I'll probably order a Toyota branded oil filter to provide and see if that makes a difference.

The rattle is definitely more noticeable in cold weather, this was taken in 30-degree weather.
Stay away from Bosch plugs. Toyotas like Denso spark plugs.
 

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Yup, same noise on my 2013 Rav4 from about 20K miles until now (currently at 75K miles). The noise occurs regardless of the oil used (Toyota or Mobil 1) and regardless of the filter used (Toyota OEM or aftermarket). It is slightly longer in colder weather but occurs almost all the time after the motor has sat for more than an hour. Toyota said it was "normal" and that it's not covered by the TSB. It is a lack of oil pressure or lubrication of some sort: The same startup noise occurs, but is significantly longer in duration, right after an oil change until oil pressure builds. My dealer indicated it was probably the VVT valve but, again, he and the regional manager indicated it was "normal".

I sent a formal letter to Toyota Care at the headquarters documenting my concern about the rattle, but I never received a response. It'll be interesting to see if we experience widespread failures as these motors get 100-200K miles on them or discover that this is just a non-harmful characteristic of these 2AR motors.
 

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They all kind of sound the same to me. One dealer says it's a major engine problem, the other says "ohh don't worry about it". I need to listen for this on my 15.
 

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Like what do you think will happen?
If it is indeed a problem with the VVT-i valve that is in some fashion related to the oil pressure problems (and lockpin problems) associated with the VVT-i valves mentioned in the TSB, then we could start to experience varying types of VVT-i valve failures at some point.
 

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If it is indeed a problem with the VVT-i valve that is in some fashion related to the oil pressure problems (and lockpin problems) associated with the VVT-i valves mentioned in the TSB, then we could start to experience varying types of VVT-i valve failures at some point.
To my ears it sounds like normal dry pistons for 1/4 second. Practically every car makes that noise to some extent.

This 2.5L has been around for more than a decade. I don't know how many millions of Camries are out there with this engine, but it's many many millions. I haven't heard any issues.
 

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Many people aren't speaking up about this noise, so let me add that my 2009, 2.5 has been making this noise since about 20,000 miles ago. I have been following these posts and getting a little more concerned. I am beyond the Toyota warranty period but perhaps the lifetime power train warranty that I am supposed to get from Southeast Toyota distributors will cover it. I have a certificate in my purchase package for this coverage.

Let me say that I am very meticulous about changing the oil and filter... often changing the oil more frequently than required and always using 0W-20 synthetic Mobil 1. This is not about lack of maintenance or poor oil quality. This is a design defect.

Otherwise, the 2.5 has served me very well with virtually no oil consumption between changes, smooth operation, great gas mileage, and no oil leaks what so ever.

My description of the problem is slightly different in that I call it a harsh, raspy sound for about 1 second after the engine has been started, usually after it has cooled off, but occasionally after 20 to 30 minutes of it being parked (i.e. grocery store run or after coming back from a restaurant meal).

I have read the TSB about replacing the intake VVT camshaft sprocket and I'm confident I could do the work, but, providing no major damage is being done to the engine with this condition, I just consider it a minor annoyance.
 

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My concern increased when I realized that the motor's speed is held down--suppressed--during startup while the rattle is occurring, as if the motor is under a load. As the rattle subsides, the RPMs abruptly increase to idle speed.

Maybe that's a "normal" behavior for the 2AR-FE, but it's disconcerting. It doesn't seem normal for something to be banging around until, presumably, oil pressure increases enough for it to smooth out and take a load of the motor.
 

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It's interesting that mine did not do this until after about 5k miles on the odo. My dealer also said it was normal after keeping it for 4 days.
It used to only rattle first start in the morning, then after sitting for 6 or more hours, now it seems to rattle after only an hour.
Not easy to ignore.
 

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My 2013 with 92 something thousand miles does it.

Because it only lasts a second I've never really given it much thought. As long as no damage is occurring it doesn't bother me. The metal retains oil pretty well so even at reduced pressure the parts should still be protected till the pressure builds.
 

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So, has anyone ever been successful with the TSB? I'm nearing 5/60 and am curious if most are:
A: Letting it be and just driving it?
B: Been successful in getting the work done and satisfied?

IOW, is the remedy not working or, worst case, the dealers cure worse than just leaving it alone?
 
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