Toyota RAV4 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 121 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I didn't see a thread so I wanted to start one to help others out.

I was offered $33,000 + tax,title,tags for the following:

Rav4 Hybrid Limited Magnetic Gray w/Black interior
Tonneau Cover
Premium Carpet Mat Set
Vehicle Protection Plus package
Connectivity kit
Sticker is $35,353.xx

I haven't accepted because they are lowballing me on my 2015 Highlander trade. The dealer is also 3hrs away from me so I have to drive there and if I don't get what I want, then I am stuck driving back :lol: Big risk for my end of it.

I also realize that the protection package and the cable kit are a complete waste, but they took $2300 off sticker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Texas seems to get mostly Limited models without the tech package and a similar list of silly add-ons. Not sure what the "premium" mats are, but they must be special.
If you want the tech package you may need to go north or west.

If they haven't actually seen the Highlander, the quoted value is meaningless so that's still a negotiation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Texas seems to get mostly Limited models without the tech package and a similar list of silly add-ons. Not sure what the "premium" mats are, but they must be special.
If you want the tech package you may need to go north or west.

If they haven't actually seen the Highlander, the quoted value is meaningless so that's still a negotiation.
I sent them my VIN, the exterior/interior ratings and my payoff amount. They also said if I get a written quote from a dealer here in San Antonio (Carmax, local Toyota dealer) they will match it.

I am going to try Carmax tomorrow and see what they quote me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
There are 3 dealers within 20 minutes of my house. When I am ready, I am going to take the build sheet from the Toyota website and ask them for two numbers: 1) the out-the-door price on a Hybrid Limited and 2) the trade-in on our 2004 Highlander. I may have a buyer for the Highlander so I don't want the deal contingent on a trade (which I know they will make money on when they resell it.)

One of our local dealers has gone to a fixed price sales model and the Hybrids they have on the lot have been marked down only about $4-600 off sticker. Since the Hybrid is a new model and the initial demand is likely to exceed supply, I'm not expecting much of a deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Purchased a Limited Hybrid with a $35,093 MSRP yesterday for $32,341 plus $250 doc fee at Toyota West, Columbus, OH. The discount of $2752 was similar to that offered on their gas models. Gas models though have additional $500 off, courtesy of a Toyota rebate not available on the Hybrids.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Purchased a Limited Hybrid with a $35,093 MSRP yesterday for $32,341 plus $250 doc fee at Toyota West, Columbus, OH. The discount of $2752 was similar to that offered on their gas models. Gas models though have a $500 Toyota rebate not available on the Hybrids.
In my area, they have a $750 rebate for the Hybrids.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
It's interesting how market condition can vary across the country. Here, 2 other local stores declined to compete with the selling store.


How much is the rebate there on the gas RAV4s?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Purchased a Limited Hybrid with a $35,093 MSRP yesterday for $32,341 plus $250 doc fee at Toyota West, Columbus, OH. The discount of $2752 was similar to that offered on their gas models. Gas models though have additional $500 off, courtesy of a Toyota rebate not available on the Hybrids.
According to Toyotas website, I thought doc fees were optional and limited to $150?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
"Doc fees" are the worst racket in auto sales. Since the late '90s in Ohio they have gone from $30 to $50 to $100 to $250. ALL dealers charge them, contending either that they are allowed or mandated by state law. In fact, either interpretation is a bit of a stretch, but they get away with it because there is no effective way to challenge them. It could be worse - in some states they are more than $500.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
324 Posts
"Doc fees" are the worst racket in auto sales. Since the late '90s in Ohio they have gone from $30 to $50 to $100 to $250. ALL dealers charge them, contending either that they are allowed or mandated by state law. In fact, either interpretation is a bit of a stretch, but they get away with it because there is no effective way to challenge them. It could be worse - in some states they are more than $500.
Almost as bad as freight and PDI. $1500 to get your car to you and make sure it's drivable.... when the factory is less than 400 miles away.....yeah, real fair
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts
Bogus fees are bogus. In Canada they are usually called admin fees.

However, it seems the market for the RAV4 Hybrid is very different here, at least in Ontario. Few dealers actually have them on the lot, so there are a lot of custom orders, yet people are still consistently getting 4-digit dollar discounts off MSRP, and many if not most dealers don't charge the bogus admin fees.

The bogus admin fees are allowed, but I guess there is enough competition locally that dealers have moved away from them because the optics are bad. If I were given two identical quotes, one with say a price of $1000 over invoice and another of say $700 over invoice but with a $300 admin fee, I'd take the $1000 over invoice, just to discourage the practice of charging bogus admin fees. IMO, that line should not even exist on the contract.

Things may get tougher though, since as of yesterday, Toyota is on a reduced production schedule, due to their steel plant explosion last month.

I agree that freight and PDI are also bogus names for a part of the pricing that should just be put in the MSRP, but at least that's consistent. They're the same number for everyone, and they're from the manufacturer, not the dealer. Doc/admin fees OTOH are completely made up numbers at the discretion of each individual dealership that don't actually pay for anything. They're purely a means to hide a portion of the profit margin on the contract from the customer.

So in Ontario:

Negotiated price plus:
Freight - Legit, but stupidly separated out IMO.
PDI - Legit, but stupidly separated out IMO.
OMVIC fee - Legit and only ten bucks. It stands for Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council.
AC fee - Legit air conditioning tax.
Environmental fee - Legit. I think it was $28.xx for my Limited Hybrid
*Admin fee* - Totally bogus. This should not even be there. In fact my dealership specifically states "no added fees" meaning no bogus admin fee. The price you negotiate is the price you negotiate... plus freight, PDI, OMVIC, AC, environmental fee.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
I like the idea of negotiating a selling price as a percentage over dealer cost. But doing this requires access to the dealer's invoice which they may or may not be willing to provide. Also, I'm not certain that a dealer invoice would be available when a vehicle is special ordered until the vehicle is actually delivered. Does anyone have any insight on this?

The Truecar.com site has what it calls "invoice" prices for the base 2016 RAV4 Hybrid Limited ($31,593) as well as invoice prices for all available options, not including the $900 destination fee. From this it's easy to add up the options I want and come up with an "invoice" price to use in negotiations. But how reliable is this figure? I come up with a MSRP for the model I'm looking for of 7.78% over invoice, or a markup of $2,700. From what others here have reported, that seems like it could be low.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts
The invoice price is the invoice price, but may not really be dealer cost, since they do get other incentives (money) to meet sales quotas, etc.

Nonetheless it's a useful number, because unless there is some sort of manufacturer cash rebate or something, it'd be pretty hard to get any dealer to sell you the car for below invoice unless it's an old one or something. OTOH, it may be fairly easy with some cars in some areas to get a dealer to sell you the car for say $1000 over invoice. For example, $1000 over invoice on a $33300 invoice price is 3% above invoice, yet would still be a fair amount less than MSRP.

For the record, when I negotiated my RAV4 Hybrid purchase, I went to two different companies that provide invoice pricing. One charges money up front and provides quotes on 5 cars. Luckily I had a friend who was buying already and already had an account and had only used 3 of his 5 quotes. I used one of his remaining two quotes to get the invoice price. Then I went to another company and got their free invoice pricing. They charge up front only if you want quotes, but if you only want invoice pricing it's free. The invoice pricing listed by both companies was exactly the same.

I then used this invoice pricing for my negotiations. The two quotes I was able to get were 2.x% over invoice and 3.x% over invoice, and obviously chose the former. There was no admin/doc fee for either quote (although one quote included a small referral fee as part of the overall quote). Interestingly, after I had ignored the 3.x% over invoice quote, they came back to me with a second quote of 1.x% over invoice about a week later. I was stunned because that is crazy low, but by that time it was too late since I had already signed the deal for the 2.x% over invoice at the other dealer.

BTW, when I was looking last year for at the 2015 non-Hybrid RAV4, I got the invoice price first too then. And then when I went to the dealer and looked at the invoice pricing, it was exactly the same as the document I had gotten earlier. Back then I could have gotten the car well below invoice though, since Toyota had a $1500 rebate on the car, but that's coming from Toyota, not the dealer so the dealer doesn't care.

Note, this is in Canada. It seems from this board that at least around where I live, the dealers are a lot more willing to compete against each other on price. In the US, YMMV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
I shopped around many diff car manufacturers and dealers seeing a lot of cars for a good 6 months before buying my Rav4 Hybrid. I traded in my 2011 CR-V with 32k on it. Kelly Blue Book said my CRV was worth around $17,500. Most dealers offered me 17K but my offers ranged from $16,000 to $18,200. It pays to go to more than one dealer, I even went to the same dealer more than once when I was serious about buying. It’s painful but it also saved me a good amount of money. In the end I feel I got my best deal where I bought from because they had the car I wanted on the lot.

The first dealer I went to had one of the first Hybrids in CT. They were not moving from MSRP so I decided to wait. Two weeks later a diff dealer had a XLE Hybrid, they took $600 off MSRP. I was not impressed and left. 10 days later I went back to that same dealer and they took the $600 off again and offered me $500 more for my trade in. Over all I still felt I could do better. A week later the closest dealer to my house received a White XLE Hybrid with convenience package and black interior, exactly what I wanted. I went there hoping they would beat the other dealers offer. The first price they gave me was nowhere close, I told the sales guy I had a much better offer from the dealer a few towns away and I wanted to pay $13,500 out the door. (out the door meaning including everything, tax, reg, etc) He came back at $13,900 and I was shocked, they already had beaten the other dealer by $600. I told him to meet me in the middle and we have a deal, I figured why not at least try to get another $200 off. 5 mins later they accepted my offer, beating the last dealer by $800.

My 2016 Rav4 Hybrid XLE had a $31,420 window sticker. That included the convenience package for $2060 and a Tonneau Cover for $90. In the end they lowered the price to $30,500 ($920 off MSRP) and upped my trade-in offer to $18,200. Original out the door offer was $16,163 and we ended up at $13,640. Just before leaving I realized the car did not come with floor mates, the dealer added them at no charge.

I am sure I did not get the best deal out there but I will say again it pays to shop around. Every Toyota dealer I went to told me how rare the Hybrids are and how they will not have many to sell and that I need to buy right away. I told all of them to calm down, it was December of 2015 and I was buying a 2016 car, Toyota is not going to run out of these cars. Not to mention gas is well under $2 a gal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
I used Truecar pricing from CU and simply told the dealer what I would pay based on that. They accepted even though it was the only one on their lot and thru in a bunch of extras I didn't want as well as they already came with it. Total discount against MSRP plus included extras and dealer fee was $3,053

MSRP $36,465 (Limited with Blizzard Pearl Paint, Tech Package, and Tonneau Cover)
Distributor Installed Extras $1,546 (Toyoguard Elite, Body Side Moldings, Floor Mats and Lipped Cargo Mat, Door Package Paint Protect)
Dealer Fee $649
Grand Total $38,660
Paid $35,607
Discount $3,053
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
MSRP $36,465 (Limited with Blizzard Pearl Paint, Tech Package, and Tonneau Cover)
Distributor Installed Extras $1,546 (Toyoguard Elite, Body Side Moldings, Floor Mats and Lipped Cargo Mat, Door Package Paint Protect)
Dealer Fee $649
Grand Total $38,660
Paid $35,607
Discount $3,053
Florida is the only place I've seen a "dealer fee" on a car. Basically that's a "pad my profit" fee. The dealer installed options are also significant at many Florida dealers. There is at least one dealer in the Sarasota area charging $299 for nitrogen in the tires! (Btw, air is 80% nitrogen and my experience with nitrogen in tires is that it doesn't make any difference in terms of pressure variation due to temperature.)

Good for you for essentially negotiating these fees away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts
I'd take nitrogen if it was free, or maybe if it was $1 per tire. Otherwise, no thanks.

I can't say I've ever seen any dealer anywhere charge more than $50 for nitrogen, so $299 is absolutely criminal! I'd report them to the Better Business Bureau if I ever saw that. Hell, even the $299 Doc/Admin Fee should be reported to the Better Business Bureau IMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
This was a Alabama dealer with a "Doc" fee. Florida calls it what it really is, a dealer fee. They use it to advertise "low" pricing and then tack the fee on in the fine print. Yes, very deceptive and should be banned, but Florida is too business friendly to do that. So, anyone buying a Florida vehicle should "buyer beware" of the practices at any car dealership. There is a local dealer that advertises no dealer fee, but their stock always have lots of distributor high mark up add ons that take its place and are reluctant to custom order.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
This was a Alabama dealer with a "Doc" fee. Florida calls it what it really is, a dealer fee. They use it to advertise "low" pricing and then tack the fee on in the fine print. Yes, very deceptive and should be banned, but Florida is too business friendly to do that.
Most states cap the "doc fee" by law. Florida is one of the few that doesn't. I've seen a couple Sarasota dealer websites that show the "dealer fee" of $899! Yikes!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
People get bogged down in minutia in transactions of all kinds, worrying about who's paying what and how much. Instead just look at the bottom line: what's the cost "out the door" for the car? If that satisfies you, ignore the rest.
 
1 - 20 of 121 Posts
Top