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I thought a year or two ago I read about the Rav4 being scheduled for a redesign in 2018. I'm starting to think I imagined it, because recently I can't find a credible source that makes the same claim. Does anyone know when the redesign might happen? I was thinking that if the hybrid Rav4 is successful (and it appears that it is), a redesign might give it its own base and flatten the cargo area.
 

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Lots of ways to improve the HV, a good start would be losing the hump in the rear deck as well as the lighter Li-ion battery pack instead of NiMH. The new TNGA platform will also result in changes, hopefully improvements.
 

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Unfortunately, the redesign, may not be an improvement. I have seen this happen so many times.
 

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The chief fact making the HV less expensive is the use of the standard Rav4 platform. That means the battery hump stays. A lithium battery sounds nice but with the necessary capacity you are again adding thousands to the price. NiMH batteries are going to stay with HV models for some years, there just aren't enough factories making Lithium to enable lower costs.
 

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Lots of ways to improve the HV, a good start would be losing the hump in the rear deck as well as the lighter Li-ion battery pack instead of NiMH. The new TNGA platform will also result in changes, hopefully improvements.
The 2018 Camry Hybrid will be on the TNGA platform and the battery has moved under the rear seat. Good chance the RAV4 will continue with that set up when it moves to TNGA. Pretty sure it will be minimal if any hump at all going forward as the present generation RAV hybrid added a battery where it could fit (sort of). I am hoping the design language will follow the Highlander and not the C-HR.
 

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Maybe the new design will consider full battery electric vehicles in the line up so 2018 might be pushed to 2019 to give ample time.
 

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If I had to guess I'd say this current variation is going to last 3 model years to get their ROI. I'm guessing we won't see an all-new model tie 2020.

I think it'll be like this;

2016-2017 1st get hybrid Rav4 is out. "Lets see what works and what doesn't."
2017-2018 Design and test fixes that need to be made from what we learned.
2018-2019 Finalize designs and begin production.

With that said, I love my 2016. But I'm sure Toyota has a whole laundry list of things they want to address for the 5th gen; i.e. hump, CarPlay, AndroidAuto, etc. ;-)
 

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Hyundai/Kia will be releasing BEVs in 2018.

I really think Toyota might extend the current design to the 2018 model and then introduce an all new one as a 2019 model with a fully electric option:
Hyundai to launch all-electric SUV in 2018 with 200-mile range

If Toyota doesn't offer a BEV RAV4, then maybe the 2018 will be an all new design. The RAV4H was introduced midway through the cycle and a BEV will likely be introduced only in the all new design or in the middle of that in 2020/21.
 

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The Tesla X is rated 39 kWh/100 mi. Knock off 10% for charger inefficiency.

So you need 43kWh to charge it up to go 100 miles. At 15 cents a kWh that's $6.45. (Night rate? When everyone is charging at night, there won't be a night rate.)

Today the average national gas price is $2.34, so you can buy 2.8 gallons of fuel. The RAV4 gets 35+ MPG, and will go 98+ miles on 2.8 gallons.

Why do we need plug in electric vehicles again? :D

And let's not forget about 5% loss in the transmission from power plant to charger, and generation plant inefficiencies. Even current generation hybrids seem to be on par with all electric cars as far as the total carbon footprint.

cost $$$ = energy = carbon footprint
 

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...15 cents a kWh...
...Today the average national gas price is $2.34
Why do we need plug in electric vehicles again?...
Yikes!!!, I get electricty for 8 cents/kWh here. The commute is about 25 miles round trip. I'd love to do it mostly on electricity. Solar and wind becoming more prevalent and cheaper. Maybe I'll stick some panels on the garage roof dedicated to my own grid.

Seriously, will have to do the math later if the RAV ever become a plug-in. The Prius Prime should reveal some good data.
 

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I hope the designers get over their 'carnivore face' fetish. Cars are not cartoons.
.
 

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The Tesla X is rated 39 kWh/100 mi. Knock off 10% for charger inefficiency.

So you need 43kWh to charge it up to go 100 miles. At 15 cents a kWh that's $6.45. (Night rate? When everyone is charging at night, there won't be a night rate.)

Today the average national gas price is $2.34, so you can buy 2.8 gallons of fuel. The RAV4 gets 35+ MPG, and will go 98+ miles on 2.8 gallons.

Why do we need plug in electric vehicles again? :D

And let's not forget about 5% loss in the transmission from power plant to charger, and generation plant inefficiencies. Even current generation hybrids seem to be on par with all electric cars as far as the total carbon footprint.

cost $$$ = energy = carbon footprint
Thanks for doing the math. Until you did it, I didn't realize there's not really any cost savings going electric (but this is the X which is probably less efficient but yeah SUV to SUV comparison is most apt) unless one drives faster on the highways, say above 80 MPH since the penalty for electric may be less than 20% compared to ICE going from 65 to 80. That 35-36 MPG is probably closer to the top range driving at 65 on the highway with some mixed city driving but I do get the point that there is not much difference.

Didn't know gasoline was so cheap since when I visit Buffalo NY, it's around $2.60 and that is still cheap for me since here in Toronto, it's like $3.20. Also, we may get a $10k government rebate on electric cars like the Model 3 and possibly get the first four years of charging free, so that adds up.

Even more reason to keep the RAV4H.


https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-charging-a-Tesla-Model-S-cost
Battery Size (kWh) * Electricity Price (currency/kWh) / Charging Efficiency = cost.
Example:
85 kWh car (80kWh usable)
Charging efficiency - 95% at 220V/40A; 70% at 110V/15A
Florida electricity price: $0.11/kWh

Cost to charge the car from empty to full = $9-$13
80 * 0.11 / 0.95 = $9.26
80 * 0.11 / 0.7 = $12.57
 

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but this is the X which is probably less efficient but yeah SUV to SUV comparison is most apt
The model S, which is a sedan, is rated almost the same as the X, at 38kWh/100miles. If we compare it to a Toyota equivalent such as an Avalon Hybrid that's rated 40/39 mpg, which is significantly higher than RAV4's 34/31 mpg, I would not be surprised if the hybrid's actual cost of fuel would be cheaper than the Tesla.

Another factor, which is poorly addressed by EPA mpg testing, is cold weather driving. EPA tests at 24C. It is much easier to extract heat for the cabin from an ICE. Compared to pure resistive heating in a purely electric vehicle.

Tesla Battery Range in Sub-Zero and Snowy Conditions



167 miles @ 20F degrees

In the colder regions of US, average electric rate is 18.78 cents per kWh in the New England region. And 16.16 cents in the Middle Atlantic region.

80 * 0.1747 / 0.95 = $14.71

So if it costs $14.71 to charge up an 85 kWh pack, and you get 167 miles out of it, then that works out to 8.8 cents per mile. And if gas is $2.60 and say the Avalon gets 37mpg @ 20F, that works out to 7.0 cents per mile. The Tesla actually gets 20% less MPG equivalency under those condition. :D
 

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The model S, which is a sedan, is rated almost the same as the X, at 38kWh/100miles. If we compare it to a Toyota equivalent such as an Avalon Hybrid that's rated 40/39 mpg, which is significantly higher than RAV4's 34/31 mpg, I would not be surprised if the hybrid's actual cost of fuel would be cheaper than the Tesla.

Another factor, which is poorly addressed by EPA mpg testing, is cold weather driving. EPA tests at 24C. It is much easier to extract heat for the cabin from an ICE. Compared to pure resistive heating in a purely electric vehicle.

Tesla Battery Range in Sub-Zero and Snowy Conditions



167 miles @ 20F degrees

In the colder regions of US, average electric rate is 18.78 cents per kWh in the New England region. And 16.16 cents in the Middle Atlantic region.

80 * 0.1747 / 0.95 = $14.71

So if it costs $14.71 to charge up an 85 kWh pack, and you get 167 miles out of it, then that works out to 8.8 cents per mile. And if gas is $2.60 and say the Avalon gets 37mpg @ 20F, that works out to 7.0 cents per mile. The Tesla actually gets 20% less MPG equivalency under those condition. :D
Let's take out winter from the equation since that is 4 months of the year where I am.

If I drive at 80 MPH, will the toll be almost the same on a RAV4H (or any ICE vehicle with lower coefficient of drag) and an electric car with a similar cd?

Like I said, our Canadian province has the added incentive but thanks for the eye opener. I guess most people who are looking at the Model S compare them to their previous gas guzzling vehicles equipped with V6 and whatnot.
 

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Okay, check my math from the article you posted. I'll use my real world prices and compare Tesla to your theoretical Avalon on a sample day on the Tesla chart:
My local prices as 8 cents per KwH. Fuel is currently $2.37USD per gallon. My local temperatures are in the 20-30 F range lately.

From the chart on January 16, temp average 23 F

Tesla uses 34.2 KwH to travel 98 miles. 34.2 Kwh x 8 cents = $2.74 for the trip (or 2.8 cents per mile).

Avalon assuming 40 mpg; 98 miles / 40 mpg = 2.45 gal. 2.45 gal x $2.37 = $5.81 for the trip (or 5.92 cents per mile).

Comments?
 
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