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Interesting... The gas gauge on my 2022 always shows a needle width beyond F at every fill auto shut off since I bought it. The Low Fuel waring light consistently comes on when DTE is 30-32 and the needle is at least one needle width above "E" (usually more). So far I have had 18 fill ups where the pump auto shut off at 10 or more gallons (mostly 11-12 gals and a couple of 13s). I Never, Ever top off.

I suspect Toyota changed something with the fuel system, tank, gauge or software on the 2022s or my RAV4 has a different kind of fuel issue because the whole 9.8 gallon capacity and splash area theory does not seem to apply in my case or some other 2022 owners that I have seen.
You are dipping into a reserve area between the low fuel warning light and the E display. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are very aware that truly running out of fuel can get very inconvenient and result in a trip to a dealers on a tow truck. A gas can doesn't help. There is a splash area, an auto shut off separating that from what Toyota calls the usable fuel area. Then the low fuel warning light, a reserve, then the empty light and even below that a reserve. So you have two reserves that are below where you start to get warnings.

Those areas and when shut off and warnings are to be triggered are set by the standards bodies SAE and NIST. As is how large a fuel tank sixcan be advertised.
 

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Interesting... The gas gauge on my 2022 always shows a needle width beyond F at every fill auto shut off since I bought it. The Low Fuel waring light consistently comes on when DTE is 30-32 and the needle is at least one needle width above "E" (usually more). So far I have had 18 fill ups where the pump auto shut off at 10 or more gallons (mostly 11-12 gals and a couple of 13s). I Never, Ever top off.

I suspect Toyota changed something with the fuel system, tank, gauge or software on the 2022s or my RAV4 has a different kind of fuel issue because the whole 9.8 gallon capacity and splash area theory does not seem to apply in my case or some other 2022 owners that I have seen.
Our 2020 has been acting same as yours since new. Also lived dangerously and ran down below E a couple of times. Pretty much ignore DTE. I treat rav4 much the same as every other vehicle I have ever owned in that if fuel light comes on I should refuel soon.
 

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Not sure you are correct. The hybrid tank is not shaped like a saddlebag and several people on this forum have run their tanks dry and then re-filled them with about 14.5 gallons.
Did you look at the drawing Toyota made? It's designed to have an air pocket eliminating 2.5 gallons of storage space for gasoline. 2.5 - 14.5= 12 gallons to store gasloine
 

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Did you look at the drawing Toyota made? It's designed to have an air pocket eliminating 2.5 gallons of storage space for gasoline. 2.5 - 14.5= 12 gallons to store gasloine
Yep, saw the drawing. Nope, the tank still holds at least 14.5 gallons. I suggest that you educate yourself by obtaining a copy of SAE J398 and have someone explain it to you. Or, if you choose to, just keep spreading false information.
 

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Not sure that helps.

Kind of classic, it's like pulling teeth to get answers on design if you call customer service too, and you get wildlly varying different takes at dealerships as well.

If the question is does the tank hold 14.5 gallons and the answer is yes,

  • nowhere is the actual 14.5 capacity listed there
  • if you assume the "advertised fuel capacity" is 14.5 then the diagram implies that the tank actually holds MORE than 14.5--but some is held back from being available for operation ("see "unusable fuel" in the diagram)

And is this an engineered solution that actually prevents the "advertised" dreaded danger of running a hybrid system low on fuel from occuring? Would sure be nice to be told if you have to run to a gas station right away at the warning or inot, and also if there's a danger to the system running lower--or not.

Maybe things have changed, but I did try to get things like this out of customer service in some calls before the tank fix came out. And got nowhere. Granted in my experience other brands aren't much better.

Always seems like a minute with a knowledgeable brand engineer could answer questions that rattle around and go back and forth for customers and take up multiple pages on boards like this, but no brand seems to think having that info available is needed.
 

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Absolutely spot on.
Going to a Toyota Dealership for an oil & oil filter change is proof that quality control and proper method performance are as mythical as flying pigs with unicorns on their backs.
Assembled group of owners expecting precise information on something as organic and variable as the capacity and characteristics of a fuel storage system?
Laughable.
/sarcasm
 

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If the question is does the tank hold 14.5 gallons and the answer is yes,

  • nowhere is the actual 14.5 capacity listed there
  • if you assume the "advertised fuel capacity" is 14.5 then the diagram implies that the tank actually holds MORE than 14.5--but some is held back from being available for operation ("see "unusable fuel" in the diagram)
Fuel tank capacity is "listed" in the OM. The tank's internal volume will be greater than 14.5 gallons to allow for vapor (expansion) space.

Volume = the three-dimensional space occupied by matter or enclosed by a surface. The capacity of a container (fuel tank) is not necessarily the same as its volume. For example, a 500-ml beaker has a capacity of 500 milliliters, but you can fill the glassware past its mark. If you measure the exterior dimensions of the container, its volume is greater than its capacity.

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Not sure that helps.

Kind of classic, it's like pulling teeth to get answers on design if you call customer service too, and you get wildlly varying different takes at dealerships as well.

If the question is does the tank hold 14.5 gallons and the answer is yes,

  • nowhere is the actual 14.5 capacity listed there
  • if you assume the "advertised fuel capacity" is 14.5 then the diagram implies that the tank actually holds MORE than 14.5--but some is held back from being available for operation ("see "unusable fuel" in the diagram)

And is this an engineered solution that actually prevents the "advertised" dreaded danger of running a hybrid system low on fuel from occuring? Would sure be nice to be told if you have to run to a gas station right away at the warning or inot, and also if there's a danger to the system running lower--or not.

Maybe things have changed, but I did try to get things like this out of customer service in some calls before the tank fix came out. And got nowhere. Granted in my experience other brands aren't much better.

Always seems like a minute with a knowledgeable brand engineer could answer questions that rattle around and go back and forth for customers and take up multiple pages on boards like this, but no brand seems to think having that info available is needed.

I have an email in to a NIST employee who wrote an article on Fuel capacity in 2005 asking her if there have been changes since the SAE standard changed in 2012

From my reading, the reserves and splash/vapor space are included in the 14.5 that Toyota advertises. I can't imagine in a country where lawyers can class action over everything that this hasn't been litigated. Except it has and the suit was withdrawn by the law firm with prejudice meaning can't be filed again. I'm thinking someone paid the $70 for the SAE and NIST standards and decided oops the size Toyota advertises is in agreement with them.
 

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I have an email in to a NIST employee who wrote an article on Fuel capacity in 2005 asking her if there have been changes since the SAE standard changed in 2012

From my reading, the reserves and splash/vapor space are included in the 14.5 that Toyota advertises. I can't imagine in a country where lawyers can class action over everything that this hasn't been litigated. Except it has and the suit was withdrawn by the law firm with prejudice meaning can't be filed again. I'm thinking someone paid the $70 for the SAE and NIST standards and decided oops the size Toyota advertises is in agreement with them.
So others can validate your sources, please share what you are reading that provides evidence of this.
 

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Fuel tank capacity is listed as 14.5 USG. There have been several reports of people intentionally and unintentionally running out of fuel and took approximately 14.5 gallons to first click so it is safe to assume this is correct fuel capacity. It's obvious this vehicle as well as the majority of other vehicles on the road have a generous amount of fuel left once the low fuel light is on and this appears to be the issue here. For anyone that wants to know the functional tank capacity of their vehicle they can fill a gas can with a known amount of fuel and drive around on a less traveled road until they run out of fuel. You don't have to run ICE until it cuts out and throws a bunch of codes, just pull over once engine begins to misfire and shut it off, add gas from can and proceed to nearest gas station and fill up to first click. Add fuel fill + gas can - fuel burned to get to station = usable gas tank capacity OR you can read through the hundreds of posts and still be no further ahead.
 

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So others can validate your sources, please share what you are reading that provides evidence of this.
I have posted the CSP which shows Toyota's conservative view and the SAE diagram which pretty much coincides with how the sensors and displays work. You want to read the document, you can pay the $70 for the complete SAE document. I'm sure someone else posted the NIST document.

If you go back long enough through the many threads on the initial fuel fill problem, there was a posting here where someone actually measured the various areas of the gas tank and annotated the CSP diagram.
 

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I have posted the CSP which shows Toyota's conservative view and the SAE diagram which pretty much coincides with how the sensors and displays work. You want to read the document, you can pay the $70 for the complete SAE document. I'm sure someone else posted the NIST document.

If you go back long enough through the many threads on the initial fuel fill problem, there was a posting here where someone actually measured the various areas of the gas tank and annotated the CSP diagram.
Okay...so you are unable to provide any verifiable information source indicating that Toyota included the vapor space in the tank's 14.5 US gallon advertised capacity (as you indicated in post #109). I don't rely much on internet hearsay.
 
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