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What a joke of an article, why even bother to post?

It compares a 2019 Rav4 to a 2002 Ford Explorer?!?!?

Wtf
The comparison(s) may be off, but the Rav complaints and problems do exist. Too many issues for Toyota, something I was not expecting at all. I mentioned it before (perhaps in another thread), Toyota is an option for me, no longer the go-to brand. They are making way too many models and changing their designs too often. Rav4 <--> Corolla Cross, as example.
 

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The comparison(s) may be off, but the Rav complaints and problems do exist. To many issues for Toyota, something I was not expecting at all. I mentioned it before (perhaps in another thread), Toyota is an option for me, no longer the go-to brand. They are making way too many models and changing their designs too often. Rav4 <--> Corolla Cross, as example.
The article says there were transmission lurches, and a loud engine. The author admits that the transmission was fixed via software. The loud engine isn't a defect, and if it bothers you, just add a hood liner.

If you think Toyota is unreliable, no one is preventing you from buying a Ford, Chrysler or GM
 

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I think what Rav4-lim is saying. Everything is fine now, but the next time a car purchase is being decided on, Toyota may not be at the top of the list anymore.

I too am in the same boat. I drive my dad's 1999 4Runner from time to time and other than the rock hard massive original Goodyear tires, the engine and transmission are leaps and bounds smoother than the combination in my RAV4. Yes, the 4Runner spends most of its life in a garage since my dad has passed and it's stored in my garage, but even as old as it is with less than 60K on the odometer, it just feels better.

I feel too that Toyota has lost some loyalty points with some of their decisions. Granted, their hand might be forced, but quality and reliability is still an important element. There is no excuse for the leaking roof rails. That's just a really really bad decision for a design and not to have a fix this far into the release of the Gen5, no excuse.

It's pretty bad when I'm watching a show where a car is driving through a rain storm and my thoughts go to a leak potential on my newer car, no excuse.
 
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I think what Rav4-lim is saying. Everything is fine now, but the next time a car purchase is being decided on, Toyota may not be at the top of the list anymore.

I too am in the same boat. I drive my dad's 1999 4Runner from time to time and other than the rock hard massive original Goodyear tires, the engine and transmission are leaps and bounds smoother than the combination in my RAV4. Yes, the 4Runner spends most of its life in a garage since my dad has passed and it's stored in my garage, but even as old as it is with less than 60K on the odometer, it just feels better.

I feel too that Toyota has lost some loyalty points with some of their decisions. Granted, their hand might be forced, but quality and reliability is still an important element. There is no excuse for the leaking roof rails. That's just a really really bad decision for a design and not to have a fix this far into the release of the Gen5, no excuse.

It's pretty bad when I'm watching a show where a car is driving through a rain storm and my thoughts go to a leak potential on my newer car, no excuse.
The Rav4 is cheap. My 2022 Highlander feels so much better, sturdier, quieter, more substantial.

The leaking rails are an easy fix.

If you think reliability is better elsewhere, please let me know where.
 

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The article says there were transmission lurches, and a loud engine. The author admits that the transmission was fixed via software. The loud engine isn't a defect, and if it bothers you, just add a hood liner.
Well, at times I think my Rav 2.5L is a noisy diesel, it's that loud and chattering like a diesel does. Yeah, it's the EGR crud doing it's thing, but way too loud for whatever reasons.
So loud that Toyota decided to add back the under-hood insulator?

The list of head scratchers for this gen Rav4 is a long list.

want no issues...lease give it back after 3 yrs move on to something new. life is all about accumulating debt the more u accumulate the better u live. debt wiped out when u die!
No, I want to not lease and have no issues. Is that a unrealistic expectation in 2019, or 2020, or 2022, for a near $40k "cheap" vehicle? Or in 2019-2022 the expectations of buying a new vehicle for near $40k is to have issues? At what price level does a buyer get no issues, at least free from roof leaks and side mirrors that provide blurry view because they shake too much while driving?

Hence what I said before, Toyota is an option, not a go-to brand for me any longer.
 

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Can anyone in this 44 page thread tell me how many of the new "Orange" clips are needed per low-profile rail?

I saw there is a newer "long" blue clip for the front end of the rail also, which I can confirm mine has since the dealer did my "fix". I pulled off my "Oh Sh*t handle and looked up there and it is blue now instead of white. Is it just 1x of those per low-profile rail?

I need to pull my rail off and reseat it but want to have a few on hand in case I break one. I have double sided automotive grade 3M tape on hand also because I want to re-apply it as well. One of my rails is no longer sticking because the dealership must've pulled it off and put it back on several times when doing the fix.

Thanks for any help!
 

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Can anyone in this 44 page thread tell me how many of the new "Orange" clips are needed per low-profile rail?

I saw there is a newer "long" blue clip for the front end of the rail also, which I can confirm mine has since the dealer did my "fix". I pulled off my "Oh Sh*t handle and looked up there and it is blue now instead of white. Is it just 1x of those per low-profile rail?

I need to pull my rail off and reseat it but want to have a few on hand in case I break one. I have double sided automotive grade 3M tape on hand also because I want to re-apply it as well. One of my rails is no longer sticking because the dealership must've pulled it off and put it back on several times when doing the fix.

Thanks for any help!
All the dealer service folks are trained and know what they are doing (laugh).

Start on page 41, it has all the clip info for lo-rail.

The clips are not orange. The 4 that go into the roof are white clips come with orange foam rubber washers. The 2 blue clips that go into the roof rail bracket have black foam rubber washers.

The tape is only for the plastic spacer at the very front of the rail. The size of the tape used is gonna be around 5/8"w x 1"long. Just be sure you clean the roof area good with some rubbing alcohol and let that dry good so the tape can stick. If the dealer yanked off the rail and the plastic spacer came off the rail, re-using that w/o new tape or a new spacer can also be a reason why your rail is loose there.

The long front clip is a non-reusable part. I recommend you replace all the clips.
 

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Let me share some knowledge that my dad shared with me. He retired from working at a naval yard where he was a foreman for nuclear inspection on submarines. The knowledge that he shared was that when applying any kind of adhesive, use only denatured alcohol. Since I was that kind of kid, I asked why? He said that the use of rubbing alcohol will leave a slight oil residue since oil is added to rubbing alcohol to allow it to be "rubbed" in. He said, that small amount of oil can have an ill affect on the adhesive bonding to the prepared surface. I have followed his statement all of my life and since he is now gone, I miss these words of wisdom.
 
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Let share some knowledge that my dad shared with me. He retired from working at a naval yard where he was a foreman for nuclear inspection on submarines. The knowledge that he shared was that when applying any kind of adhesive, use only denatured alcohol. Since I was that kind of kid, I asked why? He said that the use of rubbing alcohol will leave a slight oil residue since oil is added to rubbing alcohol to allow it to be "rubbed" in. He said, that small amount of oil can have an ill affect on the adhesive bonding to the prepared surface. I have followed his statement all of my life and since he is now gone, I miss these words of wisdom.
I don't know what they did back in the day but I'm pretty sure if "oil" was added to today's rubbing alcohol it would need to be listed in the ingredients. Most is just Isopropyl alcohol and purified water.
 

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Yep, I agree. I had my suspicions as well.

Here is a very good article about the differences. It would appear that Government training for building submarines in the past leaves something to be desired as they say:


I will stick with denatured since it has proven very affective in preparing surfaces for adhesives.
 

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I will stick with denatured since it has proven very affective in preparing surfaces for adhesives.
Yes, I'm sure it is a bit better. However, denatured can also be more toxic and cause skin injuries. And most people already have rubbing alcohol in their home while it would be less common for the average home to have a can of denatured alcohol. Especially those living in California where I believe denatured alcohol has been banned.
 

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Yes, I'm sure it is a bit better. However, denatured can also be more toxic and cause skin injuries. And most people already have rubbing alcohol in their home while it would be less common for the average home to have a can of denatured alcohol. Especially those living in California where I believe denatured alcohol has been banned.
Really, I live in California but then again, I haven't purchased a new container in awhile. I'll need to check on my next to trip to a hardware store.
 

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Let share some knowledge that my dad shared with me. He retired from working at a naval yard where he was a foreman for nuclear inspection on submarines. The knowledge that he shared was that when applying any kind of adhesive, use only denatured alcohol. Since I was that kind of kid, I asked why? He said that the use of rubbing alcohol will leave a slight oil residue since oil is added to rubbing alcohol to allow it to be "rubbed" in. He said, that small amount of oil can have an ill affect on the adhesive bonding to the prepared surface. I have followed his statement all of my life and since he is now gone, I miss these words of wisdom.
Thanks, JFox. Your father's wisdom will now live on with me also, I will plan on picking some denatured alcohol up when I reapply my tape. 🙂
 

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Let me share some knowledge that my dad shared with me. He retired from working at a naval yard where he was a foreman for nuclear inspection on submarines. The knowledge that he shared was that when applying any kind of adhesive, use only denatured alcohol. Since I was that kind of kid, I asked why? He said that the use of rubbing alcohol will leave a slight oil residue since oil is added to rubbing alcohol to allow it to be "rubbed" in. He said, that small amount of oil can have an ill affect on the adhesive bonding to the prepared surface. I have followed his statement all of my life and since he is now gone, I miss these words of wisdom.
I am not sure they mix oil into Rubbing Alcohol in the US. The UK has it's own version of "rubbing" and "denatured" that does have oil in it. So perhaps it depends on what part of the world you get the product.

"denatured" alcohol is ethanol + adulterants. The adulterants can be many things, and is mixed in so the end user does not try and use such alcohol for ingesting. It can also contain keytones, and is typically less than 50% ethanol.

Rubbing alcohols (70% or 90%) are more pure in this regard. After wiping the area clean with rubbing alcohol I do still wipe the area one last time with a dry cloth. That said, for the past 40yrs I have used rubbing alchol to clean surfaces for sticky tape or a glue, and I never had an issue.



I don't know what they did back in the day but I'm pretty sure if "oil" was added to today's rubbing alcohol it would need to be listed in the ingredients. Most is just Isopropyl alcohol and purified water.
It's a around-the-world thing. Ironically, outside the US, some places add petroleum oil to the mix. Why I don't know, perhaps it's a lower cost filler.

From what I read about rubbing alcohol in US, the alcohol is suppose to "de-oil" the area on the skin so that the alcohol can "clean" or "disinfect" the area.
 

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Hello gang,
2019 Toyota RAV4 XLE Premium edition AWD

I too have now experienced this issue and am tagging onto the thread to keep abreast of all that happens. I visited the NHTSA website and lodged a formal complaint in hopes of documenting the problem and possibly bringing light to the issue. Some thoughts I have on this issue which may have already been covered in the extensive thread;

  1. Will the water damage cause any undo expense to the consumer that would not normally be considered "NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR"? (ex: replacing interior parts, buying extra grommets)
  2. Will any water damage cause a decrease in vehicle value over the years? (ex: will there be a moldy or musty smell that a buyer would notice that would make them offer a lesser amount when purchasing)
  3. Will the water intrusion, and perceived water damage affect any electrical component?
  4. Is this water intrusion to be considered normal?
  5. Will there be future rust that occurs affecting the vehicle integrity on the roof pillars that could potentially cause injury during a vehicle crash and rollover?
I highly encourage all RAV4 owners who are experiencing this problem to document the problem by taking videos and/or pictures. Make a formal complaint at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) website and upload your pictures as part of your formal complaint. It takes about 5-10 minutes to fill out the complaint form and at the end they allow you print or save the .pdf file with your complaint number on it. Print it out and keep it for the long haul. Document and save everything starting the day you learn about it. Keep a log book of dealereships, service peoples names, etc. You can NOT recreate the events and details 2 years down the road no matter how good your memory is. There is strength in numbers.

Excellent video showing where the water is coming from -

Main webpage NHTSA - Home | NHTSA


Complaint webpage - Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
  • Formats: JPG, JPEG, GIF, TIF, TIFF, PNG, BMP or PDF (You can upload these file formats during the complaint process, please take pictures and upload)
  • Maximum of 10 files, 10 MB each
  • Choose Vehicle
  • Enter VIN#
  • Select problem concern area (I chose Air Bags and OTHER)
  • Enter in your own words what you see and what is wrong.
  • Enter date and other information
  • Upload pictures
  • Fill in personal contact information.
 

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It will take time for investigating and for Toyota to write a formal response with recommendations for remedy, if it ever gets that far.

I suspect Toyota will cover this issue past warranty period, but perhaps only for the 1st fix.

But 100%, report it to NHTSA (US). Not sure what all the safety agencies are for Canada, MX, other.
 

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Anyone know what post number has the directions for the DIY seal of these rails?
819 has the parts.
Around 819 is how to remove/install the rail.

Lo rail vs Hi rail is different process. Lo rail has a roof bracket (no need to remove), the Hi rail does not, Hi rail has bolts that gets a nut from under the headliner (pita).

The large front stab-lok is like an alignment pin.You want to have the whole thing kinda aligned with the roof channel as you lower the front down 1st, so that the sticky tape block does not twist too much or stick the wrong way.
 
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