[Felix el gato]

Hi all. I have an '02 5-speed, and it just started popping out of gear after 180,000 miles and an untold number of miles where the shifter would move while in 5th gear and under load.

I've found a number of posts that detail the DIY fix (the fabled original, this TOC summary, 4.2-specific with pics, another 4.2-specific summary). Thanks to everyone who contributed!

My question is whether there is a suitable replacement 5th gear that I can purchase for my belov'd Red Ravver that would supply it with a taller gear. In the stock setup, highway speeds make for a very noisy RAV, so I'd like to give it lower highway cruising RPMs while I am already swapping out the worn fifth gear for a new one.

Any suggestions? Can this even been done?

Thanks everyone!

 

[Challenger440]

I have nothing to contribute to this thread other than I have wondered this exact same thing. I look forward to any information we can get on this.

 

[Felix el gato]

Alright, so I've confirmed that my RAV, a 2002 5-speed AWD, has the E352F transmission. This comes with a 5th-gear gear ratio of .820.

My question is whether a 5th gear and 5th driven gear from a 2002-2009 Camry, which has the E351 tranny, would fit in the E352F. If so, I am going to give it a shot, so does anyone have insight about the gear inner diameters and other relevant dimensions for these transmissions?

 

[syche]

Hello felix. This is very interesting i will follow your findings

 

[Felix el gato]

Thanks for the support. So far, I've posted in a Camry forum, and one person said I'd be the first to see if the gear fits... so I may be in uncharted waters, though I doubt that I'd be the first to discover the relationship between the transmissions.

So I'll ask again: Does anyone have any experience or knowledge?

 

[Felix el gato]

Here's what I've found so far:

-At least some of the E-series transmissions from the 2002 era have interchangeable fifth gears due to their using the same gear spline and bearing sizes. As far as I can tell, this is the case for the E352f (2002 4WD 5-speed RAV) and the E351 (2002 Camry along with many other cars)
-At least 1 edition of the 2002 Camry uses the E351 transmission, which has a bigger fifth gear ratio (.732 for the Camry vs .820 for my RAV).

I'm ordering the parts I need tonight, so I should be ready to do the repair in 2 weeks time.

I'll keep you all posted. Wish me luck!

 

[Aslan]

Felix - how do you tell which gearbox you have? Is it marked somewhere on the casing?

Good luck with the modifications.

 

[Felix el gato]

This link has helped identify the different variants. Also, I have a repair manual for my 2002 RAV, and it tells me the only one for the 4WD version is the 352f.

At the same time, I have a hunch that it is stamped on the case.

 

[Aslan]

Thanks Felix and also for the link.
So if I replace my 2003 E352F gearbox with a E359F, my car will be quieter in all gears except 1st and reverse?

 

[Felix el gato]

Because the final drives are the same and the gear ratios are slightly lower in the E359F, if all else stays constant, the RPMs should be lower in the 359F.

I have no idea what you'd have to do to swap the tranny though; that's out of my wheelhouse!

 

[Aslan]

Thanks again Felix. I crawled under my Rav4 today with a torch out of curiosity. You are right there is a stamp on the rhs of the gearbox (passenger side in your case as yours is LHD). My gearbox is stamped E350(4) and the spare gearbox that I have (from a 2004 Rav) is also E350(4). So are you sure yours is E352F seeing that your RAV is the same generation as mine?
According to the link you posted E350 has a 5th gear with ratio of .775 and E351 has 5th gear of .731, your rpm will be lower at cruising speed by 5.7% not the 11% you'd be expecting with a E352F box. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Felix el gato]

Ah, that's interesting! Maybe it's a difference in the US vs Australian markets? I'll be sure to check though before I begin anything.

 

[Aslan]

Seeing that you have to change your 5th gear anyway, 5.7% is better than nothing if your current gearbox is the same as mine. Keep us posted.:smile

 

[Felix el gato]

YES: A Taller Fifth Gear Is Possible!

Alright, folks. I've done it: I've swapped the RAV's stock fifth gear and fifth driven gear for matching ones from a Camry.

Proof can be seen in the picture (shows my RAV cruising along at 70mph and 3k RPMs).

Here are some notes to help those who'd like a taller gear:
PARTS LIST
I did the standard 5th gear repair, which most certainly required replacing the selector sleeve, the bearing, the fifth gear, and the hub. In addition, as mentioned, I swapped out the fifth gear and the fifth driven gear with those from the Camry, as mentioned. Finally, I replaced the lock nut on the end of the output shaft of the tranny, which is nestled up against the fifth driven gear and probably should be replaced because it is staked and is made of pretty soft metal.

• 33336-42020: Fifth gear (from Camry)
• 33428-42020: Fifth driven gear (from Camry)
• 33395-42012: Transmission sleeve
• 33393-42010: Transmission hub for synchros
• 90364-28023: Needle bearings for fifth gear
• 00295-01281: FIPG gasket material (a MUST for reinstalling the gasket)
• 90179-20012: Lock nut that snugs up to fifth driven gear
• Total Cost=$390

STEPS
Please follow the fifth gear replacement thread that Hardrocker started way back when (LINK) for pics and more details.
Also, for pics regarding the removal of the fifth driven gear, please see this thread, which is accurate EXCEPT that the staked lock nut in my 2002 RAV was NORMALLY threaded (thread requires a login, unfortunately, but for the humor alone, it's worth it!).

1. Get car up on jackstands and remove front-right wheel, turning steering wheel to right to make access easier
2. Remove splashguard under transmission
3. Check that tranny fill plug can be removed without incident; if it can't, you might not want to do this repair!
4. Drain tranny fluid from drain plug using 24mm socket (my oil smelled revoltingly old)
5. Remove 10 bolts from transmission case; some oil will come out, so be ready
6. Remove C clip from end of input shaft (that's the left shaft)
7. Remove selector arm by unbolting and pulling off
8. Remove hub with harmonic balancer puller (this one should work); most effective way I found to do this was not to tighten the shaft bolt but rather to tighten the three bolts that fit into the hub because this minmizes the turning of the shaft; ***keep all the guts of the hub together because it's not immediately intuitive how it all fits back, and you'd be much better off keeping it together till you're ready to transfer the guts to the new hub***
9. Slide off 5th gear; bearings will drop out
10. Unstake the lock nut with a screwdriver and a hammer (not necessary if using an air impact gun, which is recommended because that nut is hard to unstake)
11. Grab a 30mm socket to remove the locknut that's on the output shaft above the fifth driven gear; this bolt is threaded NORMALLY, so lefty loosey; you may need to lock the car in another gear so the shafts don't turn while you loosen the nut, or have a friend step on the brakes
12. Remove the fifth driven gear with a jaws-type puller (one of these should work)
13. Oil the new driven gear, then install, hitting it with a mallet and long socket
14. Install the lock nut (righty tighty) to 91 ft-lb torque, restaking it when you're done
15. Oil new bearings and new fifth gear; install new fifth gear with new bearings underneath
16. Transfer synchro guts to new hub; this step might take some time, but it's not really that bad as long as you study what's going on with the clips and the rings; they do have a tendency to pop out if they're not in all the way, so take your time with this step
17. Fit the hub on the splines of the shaft, but you'll need to press it on because hitting it with a mallet won't get you far, and it will cause the hub guts to pop out; I used a 12mm, 1.5mm-pitch, 70mm length bolt that WILL fit in the threaded shaft, even if it doesn't seem like it will, along with a deep 1-1/4" socket and spacers as needed to press the hub on as I tightened the bolt; ***4 holes on the back of the synchro hub absolutely must line up with 4 holes on fifth gear! The tabs can be guided in to the holes by using a small screwdriver to tap them whichever way you need as you tighten the presser; hub will not fit correctly if tabs are not lined up!***
18. Fit C-clamp on by lining it up flush with the hub and tapping with a screwdriver
19. Slide new selector sleeve on along with selector arm (my old sleeve was trashed, which undoubtedly caused the gear to pop out!); reinstall bolt holding selector arm on
20. Clean both sides of case where they meet and where old gasket material was; I used mostly steel wire brush + elbow grease and a tiny bit of solvent
21. Once mating surfaces of case are squeaky clean, apply FIPG material liberally to end of case and attach this case back on the end of the transmission, waving goodbye to the fifth gear and wishing it luck on its journey bringing your car places with fewer turns of the engine
22. Reinstall all 10 bolts (I cleaned these prior because they were junked up from the old gasket material) and let case sit overnight for gasket material to cure
23. Reinstall drain plug with new crush washer if you prefer (36 ft-lb torque, if you can even get a torque wrench in there!)
24. Refill tranny using whatever oil you prefer (I used a standard GL-5 because GL-4 was impossible to find in my area and the owners manual says GL-5 is fine); reinstall fill plug with new crush washer if you prefer (36 ft-lb torque)
25. Reinstall splash guard
26. Take her for a spin and share your experience!!!

I'll tell ya: I'm not mechanically savvy, yet thanks to this forum (and a few other sources of information), I found it straightforward enough to tackle the project on my own. While there were plenty of hiccups, including but not limited to me believing the lock nut was reverse threaded; my 12mm, 1.5mm-pitch bolt not cleanly meshing with the input shaft threads to push back on my hub; my hub not lining up with the aforementioned 4 holes (subsequently dubbed "glory" holes for the feeling you get when you finally line everything up and you can get the clip back on); and not having the appropriate puller to pull the hub off in the first place, this project was fun and completely worth every ounce of effort. I only hope that this beta assists another intrepid, fledgling DIY pseudo-mechanic on his/her quest for a fixed fifth gear and/or a taller fifth gear to lower them RPMs!

 

[Felix el gato]

By the way, the gear I chose was from a Camry (part number given above), which comes from the E351 transmission and has a .731 gear ratio, more conducive to low-RPM cruising than is the RAV's stock fifth, which has a ratio of .820.

My driving experience so far has been extremely smooth. Fifth gear does not pop out, and my RPMs have dropped a little more than 10%, as expected. I used to hit 3k RPM around 64mph, but, as the photo shows, I now hit it at a little more than 70mph. Acceleration is a bit lower while I'm hovering around 55mph, but the getup is pretty good around 65-70mph.

The results are exactly what I was hoping for!

I track my mileage on Fuelly (you can see it here), and while I haven't updated it in 2 months, I'll do so soon. It of course remains to be seen if the mpg's are affected significantly.

 

[taken]

can i use the same access route/procedure if i want to access the 3rd gear? or will it be necessary to pull down the tranny? thanks!

 

[psomdecerff]

Trans work

I replaced 5th in our Scion TC, and wish I'd swapped for a lower gear ratio for lower RPMs on the highway.

I just swapped a TC manual transmission into my 2nd gen RAV4 this weekend. It too had 5th gear out, but 3rd was struggling and popping out too, after only 295k mile! After tearing into it, there were enough worn synchros and some endplay I wasn't sure I could easily solve, and I figured a lower-mileage salvage trans was the safer and cheaper bet.

The TC trans has a lower-ratio 1st and 5th. There were no major gotcha's on the swap. I did have to swap across the speedo drive from the RAV4 to the TC trans, as it just had a block-off plate.

I was worried it would bog at launch, but it seems perfectly drivable. Given that there are a LOT of manual TC trans out there, and almost none for RAV4, I think this could be a desirable swap. I'll put a few thousand miles on it and see how it goes.

 

[Erik V]

This thread along with the older repair thread you linked are awesome. I hate that at 230k miles this car is finally showing some signs of fatigue, but I'm glad people like you have paved the way to a happier driver.

 

[Felix el gato]

That's awesome that this thread has been helpful/informative/inspirational to someone. I still regularly drive the ol' RAVioli, and its fifth gear is holding up strong. While the taller fifth Camry gear hasn't proven to improve gas mileage noticeably, it was a fun proof-of-concept project that showed that this fifth gear is completely accessible from the side of the vehicle and that the Camry gears fit just as well on the transmission axle as do the RAV gears.

And trust me, I don't have any real mechanical skills outside of being able to follow directions, so dare I say that it's a doable project for people willing to experience trial and error.

 

[Arghpurplerav!]

YES: A Taller Fifth Gear Is Possible!

Alright, folks. I've done it: I've swapped the RAV's stock fifth gear and fifth driven gear for matching ones from a Camry.

Proof can be seen in the picture (shows my RAV cruising along at 70mph and 3k RPMs).

Here are some notes to help those who'd like a taller gear:
PARTS LIST
I did the standard 5th gear repair, which most certainly required replacing the selector sleeve, the bearing, the fifth gear, and the hub. In addition, as mentioned, I swapped out the fifth gear and the fifth driven gear with those from the Camry, as mentioned. Finally, I replaced the lock nut on the end of the output shaft of the tranny, which is nestled up against the fifth driven gear and probably should be replaced because it is staked and is made of pretty soft metal.

• 33336-42020: Fifth gear (from Camry)
• 33428-42020: Fifth driven gear (from Camry)
• 33395-42012: Transmission sleeve
• 33393-42010: Transmission hub for synchros
• 90364-28023: Needle bearings for fifth gear
• 00295-01281: FIPG gasket material (a MUST for reinstalling the gasket)
• 90179-20012: Lock nut that snugs up to fifth driven gear
• Total Cost=$390

STEPS
Please follow the fifth gear replacement thread that Hardrocker started way back when (LINK) for pics and more details.
Also, for pics regarding the removal of the fifth driven gear, please see this thread, which is accurate EXCEPT that the staked lock nut in my 2002 RAV was NORMALLY threaded (thread requires a login, unfortunately, but for the humor alone, it's worth it!).

1. Get car up on jackstands and remove front-right wheel, turning steering wheel to right to make access easier
2. Remove splashguard under transmission
3. Check that tranny fill plug can be removed without incident; if it can't, you might not want to do this repair!
4. Drain tranny fluid from drain plug using 24mm socket (my oil smelled revoltingly old)
5. Remove 10 bolts from transmission case; some oil will come out, so be ready
6. Remove C clip from end of input shaft (that's the left shaft)
7. Remove selector arm by unbolting and pulling off
8. Remove hub with harmonic balancer puller (this one should work); most effective way I found to do this was not to tighten the shaft bolt but rather to tighten the three bolts that fit into the hub because this minmizes the turning of the shaft; keep all the guts of the hub together because it's not immediately intuitive how it all fits back, and you'd be much better off keeping it together till you're ready to transfer the guts to the new hub
9. Slide off 5th gear; bearings will drop out
10. Unstake the lock nut with a screwdriver and a hammer (not necessary if using an air impact gun, which is recommended because that nut is hard to unstake)
11. Grab a 30mm socket to remove the locknut that's on the output shaft above the fifth driven gear; this bolt is threaded NORMALLY, so lefty loosey; you may need to lock the car in another gear so the shafts don't turn while you loosen the nut, or have a friend step on the brakes
12. Remove the fifth driven gear with a jaws-type puller (one of these should work)
13. Oil the new driven gear, then install, hitting it with a mallet and long socket
14. Install the lock nut (righty tighty) to 91 ft-lb torque, restaking it when you're done
15. Oil new bearings and new fifth gear; install new fifth gear with new bearings underneath
16. Transfer synchro guts to new hub; this step might take some time, but it's not really that bad as long as you study what's going on with the clips and the rings; they do have a tendency to pop out if they're not in all the way, so take your time with this step
17. Fit the hub on the splines of the shaft, but you'll need to press it on because hitting it with a mallet won't get you far, and it will cause the hub guts to pop out; I used a 12mm, 1.5mm-pitch, 70mm length bolt that WILL fit in the threaded shaft, even if it doesn't seem like it will, along with a deep 1-1/4" socket and spacers as needed to press the hub on as I tightened the bolt; 4 holes on the back of the synchro hub absolutely must line up with 4 holes on fifth gear! The tabs can be guided in to the holes by using a small screwdriver to tap them whichever way you need as you tighten the presser; hub will not fit correctly if tabs are not lined up!
18. Fit C-clamp on by lining it up flush with the hub and tapping with a screwdriver
19. Slide new selector sleeve on along with selector arm (my old sleeve was trashed, which undoubtedly caused the gear to pop out!); reinstall bolt holding selector arm on
20. Clean both sides of case where they meet and where old gasket material was; I used mostly steel wire brush + elbow grease and a tiny bit of solvent
21. Once mating surfaces of case are squeaky clean, apply FIPG material liberally to end of case and attach this case back on the end of the transmission, waving goodbye to the fifth gear and wishing it luck on its journey bringing your car places with fewer turns of the engine
22. Reinstall all 10 bolts (I cleaned these prior because they were junked up from the old gasket material) and let case sit overnight for gasket material to cure
23. Reinstall drain plug with new crush washer if you prefer (36 ft-lb torque, if you can even get a torque wrench in there!)
24. Refill tranny using whatever oil you prefer (I used a standard GL-5 because GL-4 was impossible to find in my area and the owners manual says GL-5 is fine); reinstall fill plug with new crush washer if you prefer (36 ft-lb torque)
25. Reinstall splash guard
26. Take her for a spin and share your experience!!!

I'll tell ya: I'm not mechanically savvy, yet thanks to this forum (and a few other sources of information), I found it straightforward enough to tackle the project on my own. While there were plenty of hiccups, including but not limited to me believing the lock nut was reverse threaded; my 12mm, 1.5mm-pitch bolt not cleanly meshing with the input shaft threads to push back on my hub; my hub not lining up with the aforementioned 4 holes (subsequently dubbed "glory" holes for the feeling you get when you finally line everything up and you can get the clip back on); and not having the appropriate puller to pull the hub off in the first place, this project was fun and completely worth every ounce of effort. I only hope that this beta assists another intrepid, fledgling DIY pseudo-mechanic on his/her quest for a fixed fifth gear and/or a taller fifth gear to lower them RPMs!