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5w-20w vs. 0w-20 oil change

42K views 40 replies 20 participants last post by  @2011rav4 
#1 ·
Howdy All-Knowing RAV4 owners!

Just looking for opinions on oil for my 2016 RAV4 XLE. I've read the owners manual that said 5w-20w is okay but that I should get the 0w-20 on my next oil change. I was shocked when I got to my local car maintenance store only to find out that they were heavily pushing the "all synthetic" $69.99 oil change, i.e., 0w-20. I asked him if there was an alternative and he reluctantly said yes, the semi-synthetic 5w-20w for $29.99.

In ya'll's opinion, is the 5w-20w an okay alternative to the full synthetic long term?

Thanks for any help/information you can provide.

David
 
#7 ·
Do it yourself and save some money.

Pennzoil has 0w20 with a 10 rebate on 5 quart jugs. ( Good until Dec31,2016) My rebate check came in 3 weeks.

Request Form | Pennzoil® 2016 MAIL-IN REBATE PROMOTION

Walmart sells it for around 24 ,So after rebate it would be 14 plus filter You can get from ebay). TOYOTA OEM Engine-Oil Filter 04152YZZA1 | eBay I take my used oil to advance auto parts stores to get rid of it. You may have a different place in your location to depose of it.

I get 2 jugs and 2 filters . .

Mobil 1 also has a rebates a couple of times a year.
 
#8 ·
I have to "third" this...With our ToyotaCare we get two oil changes included, one every 10k miles so we're set for the next 20,000 miles on our 2016 RAV4 Hybrid in free oil changes if we bring it to a Toyota dealer. It would seem silly to pass that deal up and bring it to a garage or even doing it yourself as you still have to pay some money to obtain the oil, unless the nearest Toyota dealer is so far away it'd be cheaper to do it the other way.
 
#10 ·
What if someone doesn't want all the increased assembly contaminants floating around in their crankcase for 10,000 miles? I sure don't. And if I keep this car that long, I surely will change at 5K max, and that means 1 oil change will be on my dime in the 1st 20K. That said, in my case, I will still prob. use one of my service visits since there is a good chance I keep this car less than a year.
 
#11 ·
There are several used oil analysis' here that show your thinking is antiquated. By all means do as you wish but 10K oil changes using Toyota Genuine Motor Oil 0W20 easily goes 10K miles. Contaminants are no longer an issue as they once were. Frankly if you're getting rid of it in less than a year what does any of this matter?
 
#16 ·
Like other users have said, take it to a dealership. The first 5 services are free with ToyotaCare, which include 2 oil changes. And Toyota always uses Toyota Synthetic 0W-20. You don't have to spend a dime.

Unless you have already used your free services, I would only use 0W-20
 
#20 ·
That's a good perspective. Thanks, KJPAT. I've been trying for several years--since the acquisition of my '13 RAV4, to base my decisions on science and measurable data rather than anecdote, wives tales, etc., so I'm always interested in the substance behind why others make the decisions they make.

A couple additional questions to help me understand your perspective. (I know you're used to seeing confrontational or mocking questions, but that's not at all what I'm doing here.)

  1. Do you think the filter is sufficient to remove from the oil circuit any contaminants of sufficient size (such as metal particles) to damage the engine?
  2. If contaminants are a concern, is damage done by leaving the oil in for as long as 5K miles? Would it be better to change the oil after the first couple hundred miles and then maybe every 1,000 miles after that until one reaches 10K miles? (If contaminants are a concern, I'd be worried about a burr, for example, breaking off at the 200-mile point and then scrubbing around in there until I change the oil at 5K or 10K miles.)
 
#21 ·
Well I try to break things down to risk vs reward. In this case, your risk is the loss of what I'll call $50.00 for a single additional oil change, vs the reward of a "slight" less chance of damage to internal engine components during breakin period. Now go to 10 (every 1000 miles) additional oil changes and the risk (now $500.00) goes WAY up and the reward IMO will drop a far less comparable amount.
In reality the oil filter is suppose to catch these types of impurities, and very fine particles are more of a risk than larger particles, but unfortunately not everything works exactly as designed every time. There is no way of saying with any certainty, what is the ideal point in mileage to reduce risks. But if there are harmful impurities in your oil, we do know the longer they are in there, the greater the risk.
 
#23 ·
everyone is an oil expert



5w-20 will work great in your climate, 0w-20 if you go well below freezing. There is NO evidence that synthetic oils will reduce the wear in your engine. Any brand SN rated oil will go an easy 5,000 miles in your engine however without a used oil analysis (with a TBN/TAN) there is no way to really know when to change your oil , that includes full synthetic oils. To other posters, you might want to learn something about motor oils besides 'what you heard,what you learned from your dad, or just plain myths. What are my qualifications? I teach auto mechanics.
 
#24 ·
Man you guys gotta be nuts. I just changed my oil. The very first oil change on this like new 2018 rav4 awd. I did it myself. With the stupid little oil service key. (Embarassing) ( shoulda kept the spin on filter ) like GM uhhhh.. Anyway. That oil was shot. And stunk like hell. At 5000 miles. Only 5500 on it now. Change your oil every 5k. Toyota wants to sell you parts. And 10k is ridiculous. When you hit 100k miles hiw does your engine feel to only had 10 changes in its life. Or to me. How 20 feel. Engine love 20 not starving them at 10 changes. In that many miles. In the old day they changed every 3k miles mu great grandpa did it evry 2500. Sell parts?? Hahah
 
#25 ·
Did you save some for a used oil analysis?

I haven't seen a UOA yet that shows 10K OCIs to be bad for this motor. Perhaps you have an impending problem with your motor if it's chewing up oil that quickly. A UOA would reveal that.


 
#26 ·
No sir dont need to see oil analysis. We farm and have 10 semi trucks. 4 big john deere combines. Dad has 40 pickups and i own 6 4x4 pickups. Chevys and toyotas. We have so much iron and service each unit. Individually. 100 hrs per engine. On hard pulls. Engines like it better when you drop that oil. We tear down engines. To the block. The motors with multiple early service intervals. Seem to be way healthier. Than engines with 10 changes in 100k miles. Huge difference. Mechanics dont need to see oil analysis. But see engine and bearing wear.
 
#28 ·
Have you tore down motors? And seen what it looks like when shes had 10k compared to 5k change intervals?

You have to measure the tolerances in a teardown. Other wise its all he said. She said.

I will wager to bet. A motor at 150k miles
That had 5k miles intervels

Will have less wear. Than the same 150k miles motor with only 10k changes!
 
#32 ·
Have you tore down motors? And seen what it looks like when shes had 10k compared to 5k change intervals?

You have to measure the tolerances in a teardown. Other wise its all he said. She said.

I will wager to bet. A motor at 150k miles
That had 5k miles intervels

Will have less wear. Than the same 150k miles motor with only 10k changes!
Interesting. My 2005 RAV now has almost 220k miles on it. I change the oil every 10k and use a mixture of 50% synthetic and 50% dino. I mix it myself. Car is driven all the time, does not burn oil, and runs great.
So...how soon before my engine dies because I didn't change my oil every 5k? Just curious because my guess is the body will fall off long before than engine stops running, which has been my experience with both my Toyota trucks that had well over 300k on them.
 
#29 ·
I have indeed disassembled motors.

UOAs contain a variety of tests for the amounts of metals and compounds in used oil. That includes PPM measurements for the metals associated with engine components. Do you believe those scientific tests are capable of indicating if there's abnormal wear on specific components?
 
#30 ·
I said it before and I'll say it again. What's the Benefit for Toyota to tell you oil will last 10,000 miles if it would harm your engine?

They don't pay for the oil changes! You do!

Does anyone really think Toyota wants to be know as having engines that wear out too soon ?

Why would you buy a car from someone you don't trust?
 
#31 ·
One possible motive for implementing a 10K OCI is so they can brag about lower total cost of ownership. Fewer oil changes means less money, and lower total cost of ownership may attract buyers.

Hence the reason lots of people have performed UOAs...to determine if Toyota is being honest based on mechanics and science or being dishonest so that they can brag about a lower cost of ownership.

Every UOA I've seen confirms that Rav4's pass the 10K OCI test with flying colors. Hence, Toyota's claim is demonstrably correct.
 
#34 ·
You boys do whatever you want. I’m just speaking from experience.

ive seen my dad wear more stuff out than anyone

all the tractors and ton of semi trucks

he will not run a single engine past five thousand miles.

100 hours on the tractors
that pull for hours in the field

if you translate 10k car miles to tractor hours

it would translate to 500 hours each oil change

if you waited 500 hours on a tractor you WILL score every bearing.

and will be taking it out for a rebuild.

tractors only live a total life of around 10,000 hours.

do the math guys. Right now. Thats only 20 oil changes.

in an entire life of an engine

my dad has done hundreds of services on a John Deere

thousands. Total
 
#38 ·
I do 10,000 mile OCI myself and the first 100k miles have been driven.

I'll get back to you guys in another 100k miles.

Pushing for 300k like the last RAV I owned.

Anything past 250k and I will be happy.

Right. Toyota knows more about their engines than some local mechanic who makes money on oil changes.

Toyota ia a muti billion dollar company who access to the best testing equipment in the world. Plus you can always send your oil out to get it tested if you have any doubt.
 
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