Don't really know where to start. With clutch depressed and ignition in start posistion there is no voltage at starter to engage and make the starter turn. Starter and battery are good. Going straight from battery to starter engine will turn over. There is no chk eng light when ignition on. Can't read OBD code, reader say it can't establish comm. When ignition in start posistion clock dims but interior and head lamps don't. All of this happened last winter in Minn when temps were below 0. Had battery charger on it for insurance, didn't work ha. Have tried to check everything, obviously I'm missing something. At wit's end. Any help appreciated.
99 rav4 standard won't crank
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Only thing I haven't tried in the ignition switch. Looks like it will be a bear to get out. I unplugged the clutch switch and jumpered it, that didn't help. I'm afraid it could be the ECM, hope not. Already replaced the start relay. Hate to drop a lot of money in it. It has 240,000 miles on it and needs a new exhaust system.
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The starting system can be considered as two separate (but related) circuits.
The ignition switch, the clutch safety switch, and a fuse, are all part of a circuit to operate the "start relay".
When the start relay is operated, current flows through additional fuses and cables to operate the starter motor.
So to determine if the first circuit is causing the problem, open the relay box located under the hood by the drivers side strut tower. You should see a relay labelled "ST RELAY". Remove the relay and measure the voltage from pin #1 (of the socket) to battery ground (pin #1 is at the 3 o'clock position). Have someone attempt to crank the engine. If the voltage is at 0 volts and jumps to 12 volts when attempting to crank, the first circuit working normally.
Once you prove which of the two circuits have the problem, we can continue troubleshooting.
The ignition switch, the clutch safety switch, and a fuse, are all part of a circuit to operate the "start relay".
When the start relay is operated, current flows through additional fuses and cables to operate the starter motor.
So to determine if the first circuit is causing the problem, open the relay box located under the hood by the drivers side strut tower. You should see a relay labelled "ST RELAY". Remove the relay and measure the voltage from pin #1 (of the socket) to battery ground (pin #1 is at the 3 o'clock position). Have someone attempt to crank the engine. If the voltage is at 0 volts and jumps to 12 volts when attempting to crank, the first circuit working normally.
Once you prove which of the two circuits have the problem, we can continue troubleshooting.
Well I just removed the ignition switch, took it apart, inspected, reassembled, and reinstalled. It looked fine nothing broken. Man that thing is a bear to take out and reinstall. You need fingers on the end of your fingers for that thing. Tried it again same symptoms as above. I'm back to here I left off, Something is drawing quiet a bit of current somewhere to make the clock dim, but the interior light don't dim when I try to start it. That seems weird to me.
Ok no voltage at the start relaý with clutch engaged and ignition in the start postion. The drawing I have shows 2 fuses in series with that leg. A 20 amp (AM2) which I can't seem to locate and an 80 amp (Main). Problem is the drawing doesn't seem to match the values that I find in the car. Over by my battery there are 3 fuses a 100, 80, and 50. The AM2 fuse I find its value (5A) doesn't match either. I've had the car over 10 years and have never mess with any of the fuses. Somehow I don't think I can believe this drawing or I'm missing another fuse block.
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I think this drawing might help.
Check for the 12 volts on the black wire of the clutch switch, to verify you don't have a break between the clutch switch and the relay.
The AM2 fuse is in the same box as the start relay. It is the bottom most fuse (below the dome fuse).
The 30A Main fuse only comes into the picture when the relay contacts close.
Check for the 12 volts on the black wire of the clutch switch, to verify you don't have a break between the clutch switch and the relay.
The AM2 fuse is in the same box as the start relay. It is the bottom most fuse (below the dome fuse).
The 30A Main fuse only comes into the picture when the relay contacts close.
I'd start by applying 12V directly from the battery to pin 3 of the start relay socket, the wire that goes directly to the starter. If that works you'll at least be able to drive the car.
Caution: When applying 12V to various circuits you run the risk of a connection to ground with resulting sparks, etc. What I use is a headlight bulb in series with the test jumper. It will pass a high current but simply light up bright if I make a mistake.
Rick, I like your approach of splitting the starting circuits into two - before and after the start relay. Saves a novice a lot of guess and duplicate work, not that Jasper is one - he seems to know what he's doing and will figure it out - with the correct diagram.
Caution: When applying 12V to various circuits you run the risk of a connection to ground with resulting sparks, etc. What I use is a headlight bulb in series with the test jumper. It will pass a high current but simply light up bright if I make a mistake.
Rick, I like your approach of splitting the starting circuits into two - before and after the start relay. Saves a novice a lot of guess and duplicate work, not that Jasper is one - he seems to know what he's doing and will figure it out - with the correct diagram.
If I short (jumper) the clutch switch and measure the voltage at the clutch jumper with the ignition in the start postion it measures 0v. So the voltage is either not getting through the ignition switch (bad switch)or the AM2 fuse or the 80A main fuses should be blown. Both of the fuses that I've been able to find labeled by the drawing are both good (checked with a meter). I had the ignition switch out and apart and everything looked good as far as the wipers and contacts, although I'm starting to doubt myself. I don't know! I'm either missing the bad fuse somewhere or the ignition switch is bad. I'm getting pretty fed up with something that should be pretty simple.
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Since you know how to remove and reinstall the ignition switch, couldn't you measure the voltage on the Black/red wire and on the Black/white wire (with the switch in the start position) and verify that power is arriving at, and leaving, the switch.
You could also look for voltage at pin #5 of the start relay to see if the Fusible link, and the 30A Main #1 fuses are good.
For that matter you could look for 12v in the 20A AM2 fuse socket to verify the fusible link is working. With the AM2 fuse removed you could use an ohmmeter to verify continuity through the ignition switch without removing it. Measure from the upper terminal of the AM2 to the Black wire on the clutch switch (with the switch turned to the start position)
You could also look for voltage at pin #5 of the start relay to see if the Fusible link, and the 30A Main #1 fuses are good.
For that matter you could look for 12v in the 20A AM2 fuse socket to verify the fusible link is working. With the AM2 fuse removed you could use an ohmmeter to verify continuity through the ignition switch without removing it. Measure from the upper terminal of the AM2 to the Black wire on the clutch switch (with the switch turned to the start position)
I found the problem. I have an open between the AM2 fuse and the ignition switch. Now its just a matter of finding just how the wire goes between the fuse box in the engine compartment through the firewall to the switch. Any ideas?
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There is a 10 pin connector in (or possibly under) the relay/fuse box known as EA1. It appears to be the connector located below the start relay (bottom right as viewed from the bumper). The AM2 fuse is connected to Pin # 7 of this connector.
The harness continues to pin # 11 of a connector known as IG1 (a 12 pin connector). This connector is located under the center console, about halfway between the radio and the parking brake handle.
The circuit then continues to pin #7 on the ignition switch. The color of the wire is RED/Black at each of these connectors.
The harness continues to pin # 11 of a connector known as IG1 (a 12 pin connector). This connector is located under the center console, about halfway between the radio and the parking brake handle.
The circuit then continues to pin #7 on the ignition switch. The color of the wire is RED/Black at each of these connectors.
Thanks Rickl. You've been a world of help. Guess I'll have to start digging for the open wire. If worst comes to worst I'll just run a new wire. probably corroded for the salt here in MN wouldn't think it rubbed in two (would have probably blown the fuse) Thanks again.
Sound like you two guys have a good handle on this. It kinda had that add-a-wire feeling to it from the start but the understanding of how and confidence to do that is beyond many DIYers. I expect you'll get it done Jasper.
Rick & I both love figuring this stuff out and getting to solutions.
A few years ago we had a similar situation where I actually talked on the phone to the guy trying to make the repair. As I recall the thread was "Push start only" but unfortunately I don't think he had the knowledge to add the wire and I never heard the final outcome.
Please post your final resolution.
Rick & I both love figuring this stuff out and getting to solutions.
A few years ago we had a similar situation where I actually talked on the phone to the guy trying to make the repair. As I recall the thread was "Push start only" but unfortunately I don't think he had the knowledge to add the wire and I never heard the final outcome.
Please post your final resolution.
This is what I did to fix it. I removed the air filter housing and flipped the relay and fuse box over and removed the bottom of the fuse box. I cut the wire coming from the AM2 fuse under the box and at the ingnition switch. To run the new wire I removed the left front wheel and removed the wheel well liner, there is a wire bundle up in the left fender with a rubber boot that goes through the firewall just in front of the drivers door frame. I then spliced a new wire in to the ignition switch. I tie wrapped the new wired to the existing bundle and made sure it wouldn't rub on anything. I know it was a pain in the butt for just one wire but it works for me. Didn't even try to find where the old wire broke at would have been just more wasted time. I want to thank everyone here for their help, it was of great assistance.
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